SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
What does iDooM stand for? Sounds like the apocalypse brought to you by apple mac
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I understand by the way that there are less than 30 faction signatories to the "middle ground appeal and more than 50 non faction, so even if it was intended primarily to split the faction it may actually have caused more division among the loyalists.
Also the faction committee had no truck with it at all.
Also the faction committee had no truck with it at all.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
In defence of our Martin, a joke reference to the secret ultra-rabid loyalist factioneers stemming from the period when the opposition faction was called In defence of our party.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
So the people putting out stuff like 'statement for our revolutionary party' (my second favourite IB piece after Rhetta's proletarian standpoint stuff)?
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
I understand that the conference business per se starts on Saturday and continues until Sunday. Faction meetings will take place this Friday evening and tomorrow evening at the Holy Innocents (!) Church - I hope this doesn't mean that the Faction is being taken for a ride...
The key votes will take place tomorrow: on the apology, the Disputes Commission Review and the CC. The Faction wants to have a winding up meeting on Sunday at 5pm in said church, but the CC is unhappy about this and it's unclear whether it will take place.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
From tonight till Sunday I believe.
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
That's good news (in the general gloom). Hopefully, the loyalists/idoomers will be at each other's throats tomorrow. There could be some lively sessions - pity it's not livestreamed.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Yes. It's the rabid loyalists rather than the bog standard ones.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Two days of actual sessions so it seems like they are less long winded than the SP over here
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Precisely. But the situation is a little more fluid now. As Nigel has pointed out, there are de facto 3 factions: the officially declared Rebuilding the Party, the non-declared Idoomers and now a third middle-of-the-road grouping which includes members from the Faction and IdooM, plus some non-affiliated loyalists.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Don't even joke about it.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
there isn't enough popcorn and deckchairs in the world to cover a livestreaming:
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
or a computer strong enough to withstand everything that would be thrown at itthere isn't enough popcorn and deckchairs in the world to cover a livestreaming:
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Give me some wine and a sofa.
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
If the Faction meets at the Holy Innocents Church, Delta and co are at the Church of Miracle Signs and Wonders Ministries (it really exists!)Is Delta doing a fringe?
neprimerimye
Well-Known Member
This rather simplifies matters. IDOOM is the undeclared, therefore illegal under SWP rules, faction led by Amy Leather on the CC. There is also a CC minority around Charlie Kimber and Alex Callinicos which might be said to hold views similar to those of the majority of less active members. THen we have the grouping around the 'compromise' statement sent out under then names of Paul McGarr and Megan Trudell the latter a member of the Faction while the former is of the centre. Personally I consider this statement to represent a failure of nerve by the soft oppositionists and a rotten bloc that plays into the hands of the iDOOM wreckers. Which means that the Faction contains a capitulationist tendency and a more militant wing too. In any case the fact is that all wings of what is until Monday the SWP are characterised by cliqueism and non-political personal relations the exception being the revolutionary majority of the Faction and odd though it might seem individuals like Kimber and Callinicos.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Who gave you the right to decide who is or isn't principled? Maybe a minority of the faction have principled doubts about the course the ISO fans are taking them on.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Did it ever occur to you that the ISO is politically as close to the SWP as any organisation in the world that wasn't founded by the SWP or completely hegemonised by it? And that an ISO "clone" is about the best hope there is of a viable SWPish organisation in the near future?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
No
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Do you really think that the SWP itself can recover from this? Really?
(And by that I mean not do you think it's fair that they are fucked, as I already understand that you don't think it's fair).
HOW?
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Agree. The SWP is finished. It won't collapse like a pack of cards as did the WRP. I suspect the implosion will be more gradual: an increasingly ageing membership, future splits, others dropping out through demoralisation.... The ISO option is the only valid one. For starters, it could win over the left wing of the ISN + at least some of the students who left in March.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I agree the SWP is facing a very slow decline, there will not be the rapid collapse some seem to be expecting. The fact is the SWP has been in decline for years (decades?) this whole fiasco, which is to some extent a result of that decline, will accelerate it somewhat but the SWP will remain a significant presence on the left for many years yet. It will also I think destroy any chance the SWP had of reversing its fortunes.
And the only reason it will remain a significant presence on the left is because the rest of the left is slowly diminishing as well essentially. Which is not to say that organisations like the Socialist Party cannot maintain a sustainable presence and maybe even go through brief periods of growth around specific issues and circumstances, while the SWP continue to spiral downwards. But their hitherto broad hinterlands of non aligned but sympathetic trade union and community and issue based activists are slowly drifting away from their catchment areas and into different political waters. The SWP crisis has only marginally influenced the drift as well.
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
From Twitter: "Apparently CC main motion carried bar (sic) about 50-80 vote at #SWP conference. From what I've heard @alex_callinicos being snide as ever"
Any more news?? Tell me the worst.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
#besttimetobeasocialist shorely
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