Spanish Political News

[Pickman's model]

Some Catalans.

I find the use of Spanistan offensive in so many ways. Nobody is under the illusion that La España Negra isn't often backwards and sinister but it doesn't help to compare it with countries whose names end with -stan. You manage to suggest that it's overrun with foreigners, which is what is suggested by out-and-out racists who say Londonistan or Englandstan. Either that or that it's a primitive country like those countries. Equally offensive to all concerned.

Like so many times, you give the impression that you're passing on stuff and using expressions that you don't properly understand. It has to be 'about you' for that reason.

he's like delboy only without Derek Trotter's charm, command of French and political nous

 

[Anudder Oik]

Here's a rap Attacking the "España Negra" that was uploaded about 8 hours ago and already has a quarter of a million views. The rappers are furious about their friends, Valtonyc and Pablo Hasél being imprisoned for their lyrics about the king.

It's called the Borbons are thieves and was filmed in the Model prison in Barcelona.

You can put the lyrics in a translator. They call for street protests "Scratches" and "barricades instead of Versace" and for support from the working classes in Madrid. The rap brings spanish speakers and Catalans together.



Rapear no es delito.
En las cárceles, los débiles, los más pobres, ¿es o no?
En Ginebra los patriotas escondiendo el montón.
Van Sofía y Leonor, plebeyos a un lado del cordón.
No veo nada que pegue más que monarquía y condón.
Contar quién es y qué hace es delito,
mira el caso de Valtonyc, a los hechos me remito.
Los pobres hablan y a prisión, se ríen los ricos.
Libertad de expresión, díselo a gritos.
El bofetón de sopetón de este que vive en Torrejón
ha puesto roja la fachada y la corona del Borbón.
Avergüéncense por dar cabida en leyes falsedad
y fulminar con el castigo del encierro a la verdad.

[En catalán]
Es simple: desobedecemos porque creemos que un cambio es posible.
Os querríamos tener a tiro a todos en fila;
resistir como resiste un niño en las calles de Siria.
Insomnio cuando la realidad te pellizca.

[En castellano de nuevo]
Hacen falta 'scratches', faltan pintadas;
falta gente que no se agache por nada.
Hacen falta ganas para saltar los baches.
No sueño con Versace, sino con barricadas.
El Estado legitima al heredero de Franco,
en tu techo y en el juego siempre gana el banco.
Un apoyo proletario de los barrios de Madrid,
nietas de guerrilleras en la Guerra Civil.

Libertad de expresión, tomando posiciones,
que retumben las prisiones
¡Los Borbones son unos ladrones!
Libertad de expresión, tomando posiciones,
que retumben las prisiones
Ni jueces, ni fiscales, ni Borbones.

A la cárcel van los pobres, no la Infanta Cristina
pero medio país le desea guillotina.
El Rey no sabe ni hablar: "¿Por qué no te callas?",
pero a mí no me cierra la boca semejante canalla.
Por la guerra perdida de nuestras abuelas,
por la poesía que aún duerme en las cunetas.
Tomaremos su calle estilo Black Block,
ocuparemos Marivent con un Kalashnikov. ¡Fuego!
Se ríen de su impunidad en un chalet de Suiza,
imagínalo borracho diciendo: "Que el pueblo me elija",
con la pija de su amante, recuerda cazas de elefantes
mientras aumenta el hambre y no hay justicia que lo cace.
Hace falta amor para las oprimidas,
hace falta mucho odio para esos genocidas,
hace falta acción en contra de empresas nocivas,
también carteles combativos en las avenidas.
[En catalán]
La situación me preocupa bastante:
menostenidos los que siempre hemos mantenido a la Casa Real;
antisistema es un sistema que condena a un cantante
y que defiende a un asesino de elefantes.
Si rapear es delito, chico, no le des al 'play',
te vendan los ojitos, aquí te roba hasta el Rey,
dentro de muy poquito y si así sigue la ley,
habrá más 'rappers' en España presos que en las cárceles de USA.

Porque vivimos a golpes
porque apenas si nos dejan quejarnos
de la opresión por frases de arma simbólica,
terminando a las rejas una cosa no es simbólica:
¡la sangre que corre es roja, es mentira la realeza!
¡Es mentira la realeza!

Libertad de expresión, tomando posiciones,
que retumben las prisiones
¡Los Borbones son unos ladrones!
Libertad de expresión, tomando posiciones,
que retumben las prisiones
Ni jueces, ni fiscales, ni Borbones.

Esto es por la libertad de expresión,
por todos aquellos y aquellas 'rappers' que están escribiendo
su rabia en una canción.
[En catalán]
No callaremos, no callaremos.

[En castellano, de nuevo]
Por La Insurgencia, por Valtonyc, por Pablo Hasél.
Libertad de expresión.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Some Catalans.

I find the use of Spanistan offensive in so many ways. Nobody is under the illusion that La España Negra isn't often backwards and sinister but it doesn't help to compare it with countries whose names end with -stan. You manage to suggest that it's overrun with foreigners, which is what is suggested by out-and-out racists who say Londonistan or Englandstan. Either that or that it's a primitive country like those countries. Equally offensive to all concerned.

Like so many times, you give the impression that you're passing on stuff and using expressions that you don't properly understand. It has to be 'about you' for that reason.

I think people who start a sentence with "I'm offended" need to take a step back and reflect for a moment. For me those words serve as nothing less than an obstacle for any form of free debate and waste time and energy, and should be dropped in the bin with all the other PC rubbish that has driven people away from progressive politics in droves.

I am not talking about london, I am talking about a backward banana monarchy that is pissing on human rights, imprisoning rappers, protestors and politicians. If you like we can talk about that rather than debate the bit I added to the end of a word.

Now, can we have some more debate on these issues?

 

[Anudder Oik]

The guy is a cunt.

Time we ignored him altogether.

Back this up with reasoned argument or fuck off. Add some content to your posts, ffs.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think people who start a sentence with "I'm offended" need to take a step back and reflect for a moment. For me those words serve as nothing less than an obstacle for any form of free debate and waste time and energy, and should be dropped in the bin with all the other PC rubbish that has driven people away from progressive politics in droves.

I am not talking about london, I am talking about a backward banana monarchy that is pissing on human rights, imprisoning rappers, protestors and politicians. If you like we can talk about that rather than debate the bit I added to the end of a word.

Now, can we have some more debate on these issues?

JuanTwoThree doesn't start a sentence with the words "I'm offended" in the post you quote. You should take a step back and reflect.

 

[Pickman's model]

Back this up with reasoned argument or fuck off. Add some content to your posts, ffs.

Add some to yours, and less lying about shit like people starting their words with "I'm offended"

 

[JuanTwoThree]

I'll debate when you stop sounding like black ops for the unionists. As has already been pointed out, you're so fucking useless at it that anybody would think you were trying to discredit the Catalan nationalists by spraying around casual racist remarks.

It matters that you call Spain Spanistan.You'll get your debate when you can sort yourself out. But for the time being let me put it this way:

I am talking about a backward banana monarchy that is pissing on human rights, imprisoning rappers, protestors and politicians.

We know. What the hell did you think it was? Finland?

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[Anudder Oik]

The campaign to criminalize ativists in Catalonia continues. Today the Guardia Civil raided the houses of members of the CDR's and arrested a man and a woman who are coordinators. They had been active in organizing the two hour long motorway blocking protests as a response to Puigdemont's arrest in Germany. The motorways were cut in several places by thousands of people but this proved unpopular so they switched to forcibly opening the toll gates to allow cars to pass for free which was much more popular.



The Spanish state, which controls the judges despite advice from the EU about improving the separation of powers, have made sure the charges against theses activists are the following: TERRORISM and REBELLION. I shit you not.

La Guàrdia Civil respon amb detencions a la campanya de criminalització dels CDR

 

[Anudder Oik]

 

[J Ed]

The charging of the members of the CDR on rebellion and terrorism charges is a significant attack on the right to protest, something which exceeds what you would expect in the rest of the Western world. Spain's government increasingly resembles that of the likes of Orban in Hungary. The popularity of Ciudadanos is driving the PP further to the right, the strategy of punitive actions against the independence process seems to be politically very successful at the moment.

 

[Anudder Oik]

The charging of the members of the CDR on rebellion and terrorism charges is a significant attack on the right to protest, something which exceeds what you would expect in the rest of the Western world. Spain's government increasingly resembles that of the likes of Orban in Hungary. The popularity of Ciudadanos is driving the PP further to the right, the strategy of punitive actions against the independence process seems to be politically very successful at the moment.

Politically successful in the context of a finding support in a massive groundswell of anti catalan sentiment fed by a lying media machine. Some of the manipulation is so obvious you would think people would question it, but the majority (in Spain) do not. One example was a TV reporter in front of the CDR's when they cut the motorway. In the background, people of all ages sitting down quietly on the tarmac, one man even calmly walking his dog. This peaceful action was then described "live" on air as a riot. The spanish media has no shame.

But it's not just the media, the Judge Llarena, who has jailed all the political prisoners has referred to himself, in the oficial documents, as a "victim" of the catalan process. He is Judge and "victim". His case now is falling apart after Germany refused extradition of Puigdemont for Rebellion and sedition because there was no violence. Llarena still insists that the day of the referendum all the violence was from the catalan people.

Now, The PP finance minister, Montoro, who is in open rebellion in his party, (rats leaving the sinking ship?) has stated that the other charge used to imprison catalan politicans, that of diverting public funds, is completely false. No money is missing.

The reaction of the judges has been unhinged to say the least. Montoro must now face the court to explain himself.

This is a link to a (UK government?) report on manipulation by the newspaper El Pais.

Informe sobre El País i les 'fake news'

 

[Anudder Oik]

Also, if blocking the motorway is an act of "Terrorism", surely all the people who had to sit in their cars for two hours are "Victims of Terrorism".

In Tenerife an activist has been taken into police custody for writing in facebook

"Los Borbones a los tiburones"

Borbonic Royals to the sharks.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Today ETA has asked for forgiveness for the "incalculable damage" caused to its victims.

ETA pide perdón por el dolor causado a sus víctimas

 

[Anudder Oik]

This twitter account often has interesting stuff and is in english.

Help Catalonia (@CataloniaHelp2) on Twitter

 

[Pickman's model]

This twitter account often has interesting stuff and is in english.

Help Catalonia (@CataloniaHelp2) on Twitter

yeh that's quite interesting

 

[Anudder Oik]

View attachment 133238
yeh that's quite interesting

It's comparing Spain's anti-democratic tendency to Turkey's. They've hit the nail on the head with that one.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's comparing Spain's anti-democratic tendency to Turkey's. They've hit the nail on the head with that one.

yeh i'm sure that's what they're doing with the 'is' bit. turkey. right.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

The 'is' bit doesn't make a good fit with that analogy.

In fact though the Spain = Turkey parallel is interesting:

In one of my classes with VIP Basque politicians it was explained to me why Turkey could never be a 'proper' European country.

"You see John, they have no long-lasting democratic tradition, women are badly-treated, religion is too pervasive, the army is too powerful, there is very little infra-structure outside some major cities and on the coast. There's corruption too" And other things I don't recall about GDP and stuff.

"A bit like Spain in 1977 when it first asked about joining the then EEC" I said.

The argument that then ensued with the right-wing Basque nationalist politician boiled down to them saying that it was a white Christian club that w*gs couldn't join. It got quite heated when I pointed out that Iberians weren't white enough for some people.

You do get the impression that elements of Spanish society are hell-bent on rolling back to those days. But I don't think the Basques and Catalans are necessarily bastions of any kind of purer convictions or beliefs. They want the same as any cross-section of Spanish opinion but with them calling the shots.

I'd like to know what makes the neo-liberal pro-austerity reactionary Catalan or Basque parties so different from the Spanish ones, beyond the obvious fact of their nationalism. The fact of their being republicans isn't relevant.

 

[Favelado]

The 'is' bit doesn't make a good fit with that analogy.

In fact though the Spain = Turkey parallel is interesting:

In one of my classes with VIP Basque politicians it was explained to me why Turkey could never be a 'proper' European country.

"You see John, they have no long-lasting democratic tradition, women are badly-treated, religion is too pervasive, the army is too powerful, there is very little infra-structure outside some major cities and on the coast. There's corruption too" And other things I don't recall about GDP and stuff.

"A bit like Spain in 1977 when it first asked about joining the then EEC" I said.

The argument that then ensued with the right-wing Basque nationalist politician boiled down to them saying that it was a white Christian club that w*gs couldn't join. It got quite heated when I pointed out that Iberians weren't white enough for some people.

You do get the impression that elements of Spanish society are hell-bent on rolling back to those days. But I don't think the Basques and Catalans are necessarily bastions of any kind of purer convictions or beliefs. They want the same as any cross-section of Spanish opinion but with them calling the shots.

I'd like to know what makes the neo-liberal pro-austerity reactionary Catalan or Basque parties so different from the Spanish ones, beyond the obvious fact of their nationalism. The fact of their being republicans isn't relevant.

A great post. Catalans harbour many of the same attitudes as Spaniards. It's not some kind of right-on paradise. Their most enlightened politics are a reaction against the repression they've suffered - the support left-wing parties have picked up is due to the independence issue - however there is nothing less inherently racist, less backward, or less economically right-wing about Catalans in general than in other regions of Spain. This is one of the myths that Anudder Oik pushes that I find distasteful - particularly as he seems to have no idea about what most people really think outside of Catalonia. Take away the independence issue and the differences are marginal.

 

[J Ed]

Also, if blocking the motorway is an act of "Terrorism", surely all the people who had to sit in their cars for two hours are "Victims of Terrorism".

In Tenerife an activist has been taken into police custody for writing in facebook

"Los Borbones a los tiburones"

Borbonic Royals to the sharks.

Yes, this is a fair point. Climate change campaigners in Britain, or BLM activists in the US, are not brought up on terrorism charges for similar actions. It also needs to be looked at within the context of a country in which pro-Francoist statements, which are more and more routine, and actions are not targeted in any similar way.

 

[Anudder Oik]

A great post. Catalans harbour many of the same attitudes as Spaniards. It's not some kind of right-on paradise. Their most enlightened politics are a reaction against the repression they've suffered - the support left-wing parties have picked up is due to the independence issue - however there is nothing less inherently racist, less backward, or less economically right-wing about Catalans in general than in other regions of Spain. This is one of the myths that Anudder Oik pushes that I find distasteful - particularly as he seems to have no idea about what most people really think outside of Catalonia. Take away the independence issue and the differences are marginal.

Favelado, You find the truth distasteful? The hatred against catalans is widespread in Spain and is well known with daily examples of it, I hear from people all the time on how they have "just" been treated. Whereas this aggressive vulgar spanish nationalist prejudice is rampant in Spain, the equivalent here in Catalonia against the spanish is only heard from a tiny insignificant minority and is anecdotal. It is dishonest to compare the two on the same level. One group strives to impose, the other to escape.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Interesting tweet for the weekend from the spanish interior minister Zoido, reminding people of the definition of terrorism.

Why would he want to do that? Well, it's an indirect threat to Barcelona fans about booing the national hymn and the king this weekend at the cup final against Seville.

 

[Favelado]

Favelado, You find the truth distasteful? The hatred against catalans is widespread in Spain and is well known with daily examples of it, I hear from people all the time on how they have "just" been treated. Whereas this aggressive vulgar spanish nationalist prejudice is rampant in Spain, the equivalent here in Catalonia against the spanish is only heard from a tiny insignificant minority and is anecdotal. It is dishonest to compare the two on the same level. One group strives to impose, the other to escape.

This is where you are wrong. Why am I not encountering this supposed hatred here in the capital, where I rub up against Spaniards every day? Teaching puts me face to face with people every day. We talk and debate the Catalan situation everyday. My girlfriend is Spanish, some of my friends are Spanish. I've not heard a single person say they "hate" Catalans. Most people here think Catalonia should be part of Spain, many people trot out banal statements about the constitution meaning independence isn't possible, some people don't feel overly-enamoured with Catalans. However, there is no mention of "hating" anyone. People here have Catalan relatives and friends. Some people are of the "let them go if that's what they want" persuasion. If there pockets of hateful groups, falangists and the like, they are on the fringes of society here too. Maybe some old people who supported the dictatorship and are still around, maybe some of the very wealthy who live in Barrio Salamanca - but what have they got to do with your average Joe/Juan? I put it to you that you don't know Spain, and that you don't spend much time here. you think there are millions of people frothing at the mouth with disgust with all Catalans.

And there just aren't.

 

[Anudder Oik]

This is where you are wrong. Why am I not encountering this supposed hatred here in the capital, where I rub up against Spaniards every day? Teaching puts me face to face with people every day. We talk and debate the Catalan situation everyday. My girlfriend is Spanish, some of my friends are Spanish. I've not heard a single person say they "hate" Catalans. Most people here think Catalonia should be part of Spain, many people trot out banal statements about the constitution meaning independence isn't possible, some people don't feel overly-enamoured with Catalans. However, there is no mention of "hating" anyone. People here have Catalan relatives and friends. Some people are of the "let them go if that's what they want" persuasion. If there pockets of hateful groups, falangists and the like, they are on the fringes of society here too. Maybe some old people who supported the dictatorship and are still around, maybe some of the very wealthy who live in Barrio Salamanca - but what have they got to do with your average Joe/Juan? I put it to you that you don't know Spain, and that you don't spend much time here. you think there are millions of people frothing at the mouth with disgust with all Catalans.

And there just aren't.

It may not be in your immediate circle although you yourself have made repeated anti catalan statements on this thread.

How do you explain these videos?

Cadiz city council sponsored event with great applause for disgusting anti catalan singers



Truck driver just driving along on the crest of a wave of hate



Halloween party goers in Malaga go ape shit over the catalans (minute 2.04)



And this gem of a spaniard from the Canary islands having a go at his fellow spaniards for their "Widespread" anti-catalan shit. What is this sentiment he is talking about? Does it exist? Who is he talking to if there isn't any of this sentiment?

 

[butchersapron]

It may not be in your immediate circle although you yourself have made repeated anti catalan statements on this thread.

No he hasn''t.

 

[Anudder Oik]

A catalan girl forced out of restaurant in Spain by other clients for being Catalan. She must be lying.



I would add this story I have heard personally. A retired couple I know went on a pensioners trip to northern and central Spain recently. The organizers sat couples together at meal times and the couple who were alloted to their table refused outright to sit with them when they heard where they were from. They tried to reason and be nice but hese people were aggressive to boot so they just had to accept the situation. I hope the sum try that some day with a scottish couple and get what's due to them.

 

[butchersapron]

A catalan girl forced out of restaurant in Spain by other clients for being Catalan. She must be lying.

You literally just lied about what another poster has said.

 

[Anudder Oik]

No he hasn''t.

I compiled some of it in this post

Spanish Political News

 

[Pickman's model]

It may not be in your immediate circle although you yourself have made repeated anti catalan statements on this thread.

How do you explain these videos?

Cadiz city council sponsored event with great applause for disgusting anti catalan singers



Truck driver just driving along on the crest of a wave of hate



Halloween party goers in Malaga go ape shit over the catalans (minute 2.04)



And this gem of a spaniard from the Canary islands having a go at his fellow spaniards for their "Widespread" anti-catalan shit. What is this sentiment he is talking about? Does it exist? Who is he talking to if there isn't any of this sentiment?

Yeh. You always think everything is true if there's a video you credulous cunt. Like you did with Tim Pool. Tim Pool, who you'll recall you defended above and beyond any reasonable bounds well after he was demonstrated to be er not everything you'd initially claimed.