Spanish Political News

[JuanTwoThree]

A pointless and empty post as usual. Here's something more interesting.

Piden el boicot contra las películas de Viggo Mortensen tras aliarse con el independentismo

Got any more extreme right wing sources?

 

[J Ed]

It's alright when he posts ABC, I suppose. Or does he not know about the origins of the paper and has just provided us with the link off of twitter?

Given the rightwards shift of El País, there's not much to distinguish it from El Mundo now as far as I can tell but ABC outdoes both of them of course.

 

[J Ed]

Fascinating polling.

Caída histórica de PP y PSOE debido al auge de los nuevos partidos

Frustrating to see Ciudadanos out so far ahead, but v satisfying to see Podemos ahead of both the PP and PSOE...

 

[Favelado]

What did you think of Quim Torras (Catalan presidential candidate) describing the situation in Catalonia as a "Humanitarian Crisis"?

Mongolia (satirical magazine which likes to publish pictures of both Spanish and Catalan flags with big turds in the middle of them) were quick to respond with "We'd like to see how you'd fucking manage in Syria", or words to that effect. Quim has some pretty objectionable views about ordinary Spaniards, which have been documented by pulling up his old tweets. It's his kind of rhetoric that is giving us the AO's of this world. Quim doesn't criticise just criticise the PP, or the current government, but likes to tell the world what's wrong about Spanish people.

Here's an English article about Quim from centre-right (these days) El Pais

In first vote, pro-independence candidate Quim Torra falls short of majority


Left-wing newspaper El Público, did this on it. They are certainly not a news outlet which would could be accused of being anti-Catalan or right-wing liars. They do seem to have taken exception to Torras' tone and wording about Spain here though.

“Los españoles sólo saben expoliar”, los comentarios del candidato a presidir la Generalitat en su antigua cuenta de Twitter

It includes tweets that says "Spaniards deleted the word shame from their vocabulary centuries ago" and "All Spaniards know what to do is plunder", "If this carries on much longer we'll end up as mental as the Spanish", "The fascism of the Spanish who live in Cataluña is pathetic and repulsive" and a few more unsavoury lies.

So, where else have we seen all Spaniards tarred with the same brush and diminished like this? That's right. On this thread.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

It includes tweets that says "Spaniards deleted the word shame from their vocabulary centuries ago" and "All Spaniards know what to do is plunder", "If this carries on much longer we'll end up as mental as the Spanish", "The fascism of the Spanish who live in Cataluña is pathetic and repulsive" and a few more unsavoury lies.

I'm sure every country has its own inhabitants who do the same but these criticisms of Spain that come from the Catalans and Basques using the word 'they' to describe the Spanish are far too easily echoed by some Spanish self-haters who say exactly the same things using 'we':

They/We are lazy, arrogant, noisy, disorganised, unable to manufacture anything that's any good, incapable of organising a piss-up in a brewery, venal, and so on.

I didn't stop hearing this when I left the Basque Country and moved into what used to be Castille. Only the person of the verb changed.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I don't know that posting a link in Spanish without any accompanying explanation or discussion of what is in the link is going to be interesting to most people on here. Honestly, I do speak Spanish and understand the context reasonably well and I'm not really sure I got much out of the link given that the article is just based around a load of tweets. I'm not sure that antagonism on twitter existing between those in favour of independence and against it is going to be news to anyone.

yes, I'm just saying that it is more interesting than the ToysRUS level trolling that has been coming from disruptive posters who contribute nothing to the thread.

It would appear that Catalonia now has a president and nobody is happy about it. From the extreme spanish right (Ciutadans) they label him as xenophobic and from the anti-capitalist left (the CUP) they imply he is a sell out who will not push for a republic.

The rise of Ciutadans in the rest of Spain is alarming but not unpredictable. They are a party of hate with few visible policies who are tapping into the very large well of anti-catalan sentiment. Proof of this was shown when their leader recently took on Rajoy, calling for harsher measures against the separatists. It was a speech designed to accelerate the already important exodus of voters from PP to Ciutadans by giving them what they want to hear.

One of Ciutadans electoral policies concerning Catalonia was rejected by parliament in Madrid last week. It was the extra obnoxious one where they wanted to create a medal of valour, with varying scales, for the police who battered old ladies on the 1st of october.

Ciutadans have now overtaken the PP and look set to win elections in the future, possibly even the presidency.

 

[Anudder Oik]

So, where else have we seen all Spaniards tarred with the same brush and diminished like this? That's right. On this thread.

You need to provide a quote to back that claim up. but you don't as it will show how you are making shit up.

I have nothing against all spaniards, just the ones who marched to the police stations and voted ciutadans/PP, which narrows the field down to around 10,000,000 exteme right wingers.

 

[Favelado]

The thread is full of your shit about Spaniards. I don't need to quote anything.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Spanish humour (culturally fascist but nevermind)

Of course they are different. The Catalans won't shout in your face.

As for temperament it is a fact that on the whole catalans are more reserved than spanish who have a more fiery temparament.

That's just a few and leaves aside the hundreds of times you have said things like "Spanish knuckle-draggers", "Spanish fascists" "the Spanish press" on occasions when the word "Spanish" is totally unnecessary in the context. You will say that it is merely factual but it sounds like you're spitting when you write it. Which could be my imagination!

 

[Anudder Oik]

That's just a few and leaves aside the hundreds of times you have said things like "Spanish knuckle-draggers", "Spanish fascists" "the Spanish press" on occasions when the word "Spanish" is totally unnecessary in the context. You will say that it is merely factual but it sounds like you're spitting when you write it. Which could be my imagination!

You do realize there is a spanish press and a catalan press/media and that the two are very different?

Take note that the spanish central governmet want to close down the catalan TV channel TV3?

What are you saying about my use of spanish? Pedantic rubbish, you sprout.

 

[Pickman's model]

You need to provide a quote to back that claim up. but you don't as it will show how you are making shit up.

I have nothing against all spaniards, just the ones who marched to the police stations and voted ciutadans/PP, which narrows the field down to around 10,000,000 exteme right wingers.

so i completely imagined your use of the word spanistan

 

[Anudder Oik]

That's just a few and leaves aside the hundreds of times you have said things like "Spanish knuckle-draggers", "Spanish fascists" "the Spanish press" on occasions when the word "Spanish" is totally unnecessary in the context. You will say that it is merely factual but it sounds like you're spitting when you write it. Which could be my imagination!

Oh my god, you couldn't make this shit up.

My quote on Knuckle draggers has a context, look at it.

yes, just explained it on the call outs thread. The newspaper article went up half an hour ago so i thought it was tonite, however, this individual in the tweet may feel encouraged by what is happening in Barcelona tomorrow and the large demo of unionists (reactionary knuckle draggers) in Madrid today. The danger wasn't just last night.

This evening I watched/grimaced as hundreds of spanish flag waving knuckle draggers streamed past on their way to a bigots rally in my town. They were chanting "viva la guardia civil" to celebrate their violence against the catalan people. Probably about 3000 of them at their rally. Tomorrow there will be thousands of them in Barcelona. Everyone is being encouraged to avoid them like the plague and not rise to the provocation...

I stand by my description of that mob as knuckle-draggers. There were more than 3000 of them on that day and they just loved what the police did to all those people on the 1st of october.

You are a ToysRUs low cost troll.

 

[Favelado]

Let's hope you never take up the Palestinian cause. You could get everyone waving an Israeli flag within about 4 pages of a thread.

It's not the cause that people disagree with. I don't think you'll ever get it.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Let's hope you never take up the Palestinian cause. You could get everyone waving an Israeli flag within about 4 pages of a thread.

It's not the cause that people disagree with. I don't think you'll ever get it.

I show JuanTwothree up for the liar he is and all that you can think of is a low cost jibe.

I get it alright.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh my god, you couldn't make this shit up.

My quote on Knuckle draggers has a context, look at it.



I stand by my description of that mob as knuckle-draggers. There were more than 3000 of them on that day and they just loved what the police did to all those people on the 1st of october.

You are a ToysRUs low cost troll.

and what about the other posts in which the terms appear?

 

[Pickman's model]

I show JuanTwothree up for the liar he is and all that you can think of is a low cost jibe.

I get it alright.

the phrase is 'cheap jibe'. a low cost jibe might simply be very reasonably priced.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Let's hope you never take up the Palestinian cause. You could get everyone waving an Israeli flag within about 4 pages of a thread.

I think he's working for the unionists.

My objection isn't to the word knuckle-draggers, you illiterate knobhead, it's to the word 'Spanish' seeming to be spat out so often.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I think he's working for the unionists.

My objection isn't to the word knuckle-draggers, you illiterate knobhead, it's to the word 'Spanish' seeming to be spat out so often.

You are extremely dishonest and I have shown you up for the liar you are in post 3012. Jog on.

 

[Pickman's model]

You are extremely dishonest and I have shown you up for the liar you are in post 3012. Jog on.

if i gave JuanTwoThree a fifty pound note to look after i know he'd be able to return the same note to me a year later. sadly i couldn't say the same with you.

 

[Favelado]

A serious question for you as I think it really is relevant to the kinds of things you say. How much time in total have you spent in Spain (if we accept that Catalonia isn't Spain)? Is it days, weeks, months, or years if you add it up?

Also, where have you been? Why do you have idea that Catalans are different to Spanish people ("they won't shout in your face") if it isn't from a nasty strain of independentista propaganda. You think that Asturians are louder than Catalans in some way? You're wrong. In fact, do you think that Barceloneses are quieter than madrileños? You're wrong about that too.

It very much seems that you've been holed up in a small Catalan town up a hill somewhere, in an echo chamber of nationalism, with little experience of much else.

 

[J Ed]

There isn't a Catalan media and a Spanish media.

 

[Favelado]

Ada Colau, the left-wing mayor of Barcelona has posted this message. I think it really shows up the poverty of Anudder Oik 's position, and references exactly the kind of nationalist shit that I've personally heard, yet that he denies exists.

I'd be very interested to hear his response to this. I think it's exactly the position I hold on the Catalonia question, and knocks down so many of the hateful things AO says.

She is writing with reference to the appointment of Torras. I thought it was worth translating.

Ada Colau - In recent days, some written articles and tweets have come to light from the candidate to preside over the Generalitat, Quim Torras, profoundly perjorative towards those he considers to be "the Spanish", and towards Catalans who habitually speak Spanish.During the first debate of his investiture, Xavier Domenech asked a question which is very pertinent for anyone wanting to be the President of the Generalitat. An important question not just for me, but also for thousands of independence supporters, who are above all democrats that reject any kind of racist position.

"In Catalonia around 70% of the population consider themselves, to a greater or lesser extent, to be Spanish. What do you think today of "The Spanish?"

Mr. Torras didn't answer.

My mother was born in Soria, and as a teenager came to work and study in Barcelona. My grandparents on my father's side, shepherds in a village near Huesca, moved to Barcelona in the post-war years, in search of a better life for their children. My father currently lives in Almería. I have two brothers who were born in Madrid. I speak Spanish with my mother, and Catalan with my children. And it was my migrant parents who taught me to value and defend Catalan education and linguistic immersion, as a model of social cohesion and diversity. This, my story, is the story of millions of Catalans. Catalonia, fortunately, is a welcoming, mixed land. For this reason, thousands of families of very diverse origins came here, and continue doing so in search of opportunities, and they have done the most to help this country rise to where it is now. Barcelona is a capital open to the world, both modern and cosmopolitan.

I feel Barcelonese and hold deeply republican convictions. Liberty, equality, and brotherhood are principles that have always guided me. Outside and inside of institutions. For that reason I feel a deep democratic rejection towards certain statements that dismiss anyone for the simple fact of feeling Catalan or Spanish. In the same way that I feel that affirmations that Spain cannot be reformed, or that the state school system indoctrinates people, or that certain teachers are singled out without any evidence, are reactionary.

For me and millions of people, it's important to know if anyone who thinks of standing as a candidate for the Generalitat believes that there are first and second degree Catalans, owing to where they were born, or which language they speak. Catalonia is made up of a diverse, pluralistic people, from whom it derives it main riches/wealth (NB - she means metaphorical wealth here, I had trouble with translating the phrase). Certain attitudes constitute a danger for social cohesion, and are insulting to millions of Catalans. But also to every democratic person. For many years, as the spokeswoman for PAH, I had the privilege to travel to Spain's many corners, and get to know its diverse peoples. It was also "The Spanish" (to whom some refer to in a disrespectful way), who put themselves in harm's way when defending the homes of humble families facing evictions, without asking what it said on the tenants' identity cards first. I feel much closer to those people, who used their own bodies as barricades to prevent an eviction, regardless of where they were actually from, feeling they were from wherever they felt they were from - be it La Rioja, Vallecas, Huelva, Ecuador, or Tarragona - than to people, who no matter how much they talk of a republic, don't live true to the principles that inspire one. Freedom, equality, and brotherhood.

She's basically said what those of us here in the left in Spain have been trying to tell you for months AO. Albeit more eloquently (my rushed translation maybe taking the edge off that). She's left-wing, Catalan, a republican, and a democrat. And she hates what you stand for.

Your Spanish-this, Spanish-that rubbish, your rhetoric about what Catalans should do, say, think, speak. Your attack on the people who came to live in Catalonia after the Civil War. She's taking issue with all of it. What are you going to say to this? Put up another tweet? Call our source right-wing again?

Maybe you should read it and have a think.

Her post here Ada Colau Ballano

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Good for Colau. I couldn't have put it a fraction as well. And God knows I've tried.

(Has she been reading this thread?)

A suggestion for AO: start a thread for 'Catalan political news'; you won't have any "trolls", or replies for that matter. Not that you can tell the difference.

I don't know how you can bring yourself to post on this thread. You could always stop.

 

[rekil]

That's just a few and leaves aside the hundreds of times you have said things like "Spanish knuckle-draggers", "Spanish fascists" "the Spanish press" on occasions when the word "Spanish" is totally unnecessary in the context. You will say that it is merely factual but it sounds like you're spitting when you write it. Which could be my imagination!

Post #2565 has a good one. Hth.

There is a cultural crisis in Spain that Catalans don't want to share in anymore, as it is totally detrimental to their interests. I fully agree, Catalonia will be better off without Spain and it's knuckledraggers. The problem here now is that many economic migrants from the rest of Spain have not integrated and see themselves more as spanish than catalan.

 

[Favelado]

Quim Torra sworn in as Catalan president amid xenophobia claims

Six years ago, Torra wrote an article in which he described Spanish-speakers in Catalonia as “carrion-feeders, vipers and hyenas” who hated the Catalan language and culture and were “beasts in human form”.

This is the form of nationalism which AO has adpoted, but he claims it doesn't exist.


Beasts.....knuckle-draggers.... you get the idea.

 

[Pickman's model]

Quim Torra sworn in as Catalan president amid xenophobia claims



This is the form of nationalism which AO has adpoted, but he claims it doesn't exist.


Beasts.....knuckle-draggers.... you get the idea.

quim struck me an unusual first name. but i see it is short for joaquim.

 

[belboid]

quim struck me an unusual first name. but i see it is short for joaquim.

We have a poster from a gig in Spain many years ago - the headlining bands were: Love of Lesbian; Quimi Portet. We didn't realise they were two different bands, and wondered what Portet meant.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Quimi Portet is a deeply odd person who was in El Ultimo de la Fila and has been around for ever.

Love of Lesbian I have only noticed on posters for gigs. I dare say I have heard the music but it didn't register. Probably because (I see from Google) that they are a 90s "indy" beat combo.

 

[Riklet]

Love of Lesbian are officially rubbish. Popular in Spain tho. Zzzz boooooring.

So in major political news - Pablo Iglesias and GF Irene Montero (also a Podemos big cheese) have bought a 615,000€ house. With a 540,000€ mortgage. Meaning they had 75k plus lets say another 60k to cover costs and tax of 9-10%. Combined cash assets of 150k-ish.

Is it a big deal tbh? They must be pretty annoyed at whoever leaked it to the rabbid right wing Spanish press. Im pretty sympathetic to someone wanting to have an awesome place to live, generally. Its not like anyone thought they were working class heros - they are middle class lefty academic politico types on big salaries. So should left movement types be expected to live in caves or wot? Anyway they will be asking the members their oppinions apparently! Says a lot about the obsession with squeeky clean virtue living amongst some lefties.

Made me think of what Ian Bone said - "of course we want big houses and fast cars - we're poor, we're not fucking stupid!"

 

[Pickman's model]

We have a poster from a gig in Spain many years ago - the headlining bands were: Love of Lesbian; Quimi Portet. We didn't realise they were two different bands, and wondered what Portet meant.

Not a play on quartet then