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    Lazy Llama

Spammed by the Synergy Project

I agree with Mike that u75 is just a website with a busy bulletin board. It's just people who don't like Mike or me or whoever who think regular posters here think they're cool or "down with the communtiy" or something.

My personal real opinion on that is that I know just enough about what goes on in Brixton to know how little I know. ;)

Good to see lots of helpful, constructive suggestions for Synergy.

Loki said: "Aside from the (rightly) critical comments about the chakra nonsense, the spams (lets face it - not a big deal) and the sniping at Shane, I feel you're being a bit antagonistic to them before they've had a chance to prove themselves".

I think the antagonism has stopped now. Now it's Steve's turn to stop being pompous and self-important. You gotta laugh at some of the hippy-verbage on the Synergy site Steve. And I would like to know how things at the Synergy Centre actually do help ordinary (not necessarily white and/or arty, and/or middle-class) people please?

What is the address of it, what events are coming up and when can I come if I want to?

:)
 
granted that for some reason i dont get anything like the amount of spam that mike and others probably do, but is it really such a big deal?! i mean, are you really going to try to take legal action under the data protection act...? slight overreaction surely...
 
zubaier said:
granted that for some reason i dont get anything like the amount of spam that mike and others probably do, but is it really such a big deal?! i mean, are you really going to try to take legal action under the data protection act...? slight overreaction surely...


it is if the person involved is spamming people from a bulletin board that already has a slightly unsympathetic attitude to said spammer, as we've discussed. it's also a little iffy to claim the ethical high ground as steve has done and still spam.... spam is the domain of Viagra peddlers and donkey pornographers, surely?
 
pooka said:
Do people who think they're giving money to help people in the Third World realise they're "supporting" some kind of nightclub in the UK? In what sense are these charities "supporting" Synergy. Have they lent their names for a fundraising kick-back or what?
I'd very much like to know that too.
 
pooka said:
Organisations supporting Synergy :
Oxfam
War on Want
Amnesty
Actionaid

Do people who think they're giving money to help people in the Third World realise they're "supporting" some kind of nightclub in the UK? In what sense are these charities "supporting" Synergy. Have they lent their names for a fundraising kick-back or what?
The trouble is there's also this:
steve indigenou said:
We're not going to publish our accounts on the web. They are open to people who contribute, not otherwise.
And this:
steve indigenou said:
Synergy is a private non-profit company limited by guarantee.
So unless you become a Synergy shareholder, a director or do a companies search (and even then I doubt you'd get a detailed funding breakdown) you've no right to that information from Synergy.

This isn't a community-led initative - members, constitution, open general meetings, minutes, transparent finances, etc or even a free membership body such as U75.

It's a business established under the Companies Act (nothing wrong with that).
 
i just dont think its such a big deal, but yeh i missed whatever history there is between you guys, but as a neutral observer the vitriol over one little unsolicited email seems a bit over the top.. is the thread that wound everyone up so much originally still kicking somewhere?
 
zubaier said:
i mean, are you really going to try to take legal action under the data protection act...? slight overreaction surely...
You've misunderstood me.

I'm actually giving Steve some very good advice. Despite his shrugging off of the matter, spamming is highly irritating, almost always counter productive and illegal.

If he persists in 'swapping' email databases and spamming people who have not subscribed to his list, people more pissed off than I may decide to take action - perhaps stung into action when registering the incompatibilities between the organisation's stated aims and their real-world practices.

And if someone takes action against Synergy, they may end up having to fork out up to £5,000. So my sensible advice is that he takes the matter very seriously indeed and immediately desists from ever sending out another spam.

The bottom line is no-one likes spammers, and the quickest way to generate a negative reaction to a worthy project is to adopt the tactics of steeeenkin' Viagra peddlers and scumbag porn merchants.
 
Gramsci said:
Their is an increasingly slightly scary IMO tendency in modern culture to seek in the irrational a solution to personal and political problems.

See this article on Adorno and irrational beliefs,

http://www.denisdutton.com/Adorno_review.htm
It is not only capitalism that is embodied in astrology as part of the culture industry, but fascism as well... The sucker for astrology is a dependent mind. “Moreover, by strengthening the sense of fatality, dependence, and obedience, [astrology] paralyses the will to change objective conditions in any respect and relegates all worries to a private plane promising a cure-all by the very same compliance which prevents a change of conditions. It can easily be seen how well this suits the overall purpose of the prevailing ideology of today’s cultural industry; to reproduce the status quo within the mind of the people.” So for Adorno it all ties together... late capitalism, irrationalism, and weak, dependent, fascism-prone personalities in need of the authority of astrology — and all these factors lying at the very heart of so-called enlightened modernity.
So Synergy's a proto-fascist organisation! (just joking Steve ;))
brainaddict said:
I would just like to protest at the phrase 'post-rational belief system'. You see, what I think you should have said is 'pre-rational belief system... they may well be fooling themselves in some way...
Anti-enlightenment Hippies are the most notorious self-deluding hypocrites. Endless talk of tantric energy and how dreadful modernity is but you can bet that should one swallow a mystic bong they'll rush to a modern hospital... an archetypal example of science, maths, logic, technology and 18th century enlightenment philosophy and anti-religion/anti-mysticism, all run by a modern capitalist state.

But I still think it's clever of Synergy to have pursuaded various famous NGOs to fund their parties. They must be laughing all the way to Shangri-la.
 
editor said:
Let's just say I've had a bit of inside info which has helped me narrow the list down a bit - and I'm not surprised at who the chief suspect it.
Was it the urbanites list Mike? It's the only one I can think of. But I can't think who would have handed that over to Steve without consulting others.
 
steve indigenou said:
We're not going to publish our accounts on the web. They are open to people who contribute, not otherwise.

Both companies do exist. They haven't traded for long enough to have been required to file returns at Companies House. With that attitude, I do hope he isn't a company director of either. [Don't yet have the results of my 2x£2.50 search fees for Current Appointments Reports to know who is. ;) ]

When will English people on the left of centre, ranging from the former Transport Secretary down to Steve, learn that there is no such thing as a "not-for-profit" company per se?

There are:
a) companies that distribute profits to shareholders (normally "Private company limited by shares" - the members' liability is limited to the amount unpaid on shares they hold, and hence members are also known as shareholders), and
b) companies that have some prohibition on the distribution of profits to members(normally "Private company limited by guarantee" - members' liability is limited to the amount they have agreed to contribute to the company's assets if it is wound up - the membership able to participate in general meetings etc should be laid out in the Memoradum and Articles of Association. This structure is commonly used for both charities and campaign organisations.)

Some key issues are: what do the Directors get paid, and who is able to become a member to stop the Directors getting themselves re-appointed without scrutiny.

Unlike most companies, both the Synergy Centre and Synergy Communities don't need to use the word "Limited" in their title because they have claimed exemption under section 30 of the Companies Act (available only if their objects involve the promotion of commerce, art, science, education, religion, charity or a profession.) Section 30 companies may not distribute profits; instead any profits must be applied in furtherance of the company’s objects.

Companies House said:
Name & Registered Office :
THE BRIXTON SYNERGY CENTRE
41 GREENWAY CRESCENT
TAUNTON :confused: :confused: :confused:
SOMERSET TA2 6NG
Status :Active
Company No. :04863481
Date of Incorporation : 12/08/2003
Country of Origin : United Kingdom
Company Type: PRI/LBG/NSC/S.30
(Private, limited by guarantee, no share capital, section 30 of the Companies Act)
Nature Of Business (SIC(92)):None registered

Accounting Reference Date : 31/08
Next Accounts Due : 12/06/2005
Next Return Due : 09/09/2004 :

and this one - I've obliterated the registered office address as it appears to be someone's home address in Lambeth

Name & Registered Office :
SYNERGY COMMUNITIES
*** *********** ROAD LONDON
SE27 ***
Status :Active
Company No. :04863536
Date of Incorporation : 12/08/2003
Country of Origin : United Kingdom
Company Type: PRI/LBG/NSC/S.30
(Private, limited by guarantee, no share capital, section 30 of the Companies Act)
Nature Of Business (SIC(92)): None registered
Accounting Reference Date : 31/08
Next Accounts Due : 12/06/2005
Next Return Due : 09/09/2004
 
Lang Rabbie - at last, someone who knows what they are talking about.

Synergy Communities, and the Synergy Centre, are both companies limited by guarantee, a structure that specifically forbids the distrbution of profit, but requires it to be spent on the furtherance of the objects of the organisation.

For people to sugest that we are doing this for the money is just laughable, as anyone who knows me would know, as I've been doing this for years, having spent thousands of pounds supporting the work. If I wanted to earn loads of cash I could have done so, believe me, by going into law or some other job for which my education qualifies me.

We hope one day to get a decent wage for our work, but at the moment I make £250 for putting on a party with a £14,000 budget and a crew of over 100. This is for about 4 weeks work which if paid anything like what I could make elsewhere would make maybe 10 times that.

But you don't know this, so you make all sorts of ill-conclusions informed more by your prejudices against 'business' or even 'profit' which are not relevant to our world. Is it wrong to pay people for their work ? In the past, say in Ecotrip, which was run on different principles, people were not paid and the money was siphoned off to support the political career of the charismatic leader. People felt exploited and left. The organisation died. This is the way that structureless organisations, run by a charismatic leader unaccountable to anyone, are run. Synergy is strutured to protect and respect the effort of the people who do the work, not the self-appointed leader interested only in his self-glorification.

This is why Synergy succeeds and why so many previous projects in Brixton, led by this unaccountable charismatic leader, keep on failing. I know you don't like me saying it, but we are more than happy to put it to the test. Synergy is so much more harmoniuous than Ecotrip ever was, specifically because we have learned the lessons of the past and are conscious of the need to strike the right balances. We are open and, to a certain extent, democratic, but feel that these concepts cannot be applied to an extreme, ideologically driven, degree. We have an inequality of experience, effort, energy and skill within our crew and the hierarchy of decision making relfects this. Ecotrip was structured in a more egalitarian fashion, but in practice it was hi-jacked by the charismatic leader who used his considerable yet superficial charm to manipulate others to achieve his own parochial goals. One of the reasons Synergy was set up in this way was to prevent this from happening again.

Tomorrow night, there is a meeting for all the people who put on the party. The directors of the company will present the accounts for approval. This includes the payment of the people putting on the party.

Why do we not publish our accounts ? I honestly don't see why it's any of your business. If you want to come along and contribute constructively, then we will welcome you in, as we have done so to many people since launching last year. But if all you want to do is have a go because we don't subscribe to ideologies we think are naieve and ineffective, then you exclude yourself, something I am sure will not cause you to lose any sleep any more than it will us.

As to the suggestion that the NGOs fund the parties, that's similarly ill-informed. With Oxfam, for example, we are training their VJ in how to get their messages across in our environment. Even Rising Tide, who are at the more radical end of the spectrum, come along and do an excellent stall, as they think it's a good way to reach out to new people. So, our relationship with the NGOs is one of symbiotic partnership, they benefit and we benefit. Only those as cynical as the self-styled 'Urbanites' could have a problem with that.

As for the issue of who is the mysterious organisation who shared their list with us ? Hatboy was quoting me incorrectly when I said it was a local organisation.

For Mike to imply I might have got it from Laurence Merrit is the biggest joke of all so far. I hope he meant it as such, for otherwise it would just go to show, yet again, how little he knows, despite how much he thinks he does.

If you don't like the fact that I cite previous experience in Brixton with the 'charismatic leader', that's too bad. The way Synergy is structured is a direct response to his methodologies. I respect your right to organise yourselves in the way you chose. I and others have the right to participate or not. Same goes for Synergy. If anybody wants to, I can post questions on the Synergy e-group about whether people invovled in Synergy feel exploited or that we are insufficiently unaccountable or undemocratic. I am sure no-one will. A lot of effort is spent managing the group dynamics, with all the experience seeing how not to do it informing our choices.

I, on the other hand, can real off a long list of names who have worked in the structureless environments preferred by the charismatic leader and who go away feeling exploited and used. No matter how many times this happens, he refuses to change his ways, which is why all his efforts to build a strong organisation in Brixton have failed because talented people, who will invest their time for little financial reward if treated properly, just end up feeling used.

A lot of thought and experience has informed how Synergy is structured and simple and ill-informed conclusions that because we are a limited company we must be profiteering, undemocatic exploiters do not move the discussion forward. Because we are structured the way we are, there is less exploitation than previously, which is why Synergy is thriving in the way it is.

Incidentally, the party was a huge success and the feedback was all really positive.

Here's some :

the synergy was without doupt the most wonderfully decorated party i had ever been to..in london!

my overall view on the synergy project is that it is the only party in london that collaborates creativity, music,
politics, global issues, education, light, smiles and the most highest of production standards...

when we went to go back in...the bouncer...this massive guy...stopped us both...and i thought oh dear here we

go...usual shitty bouncer vibes...but then he look at us both directly...and just smiled...and softly said...its

wondeful to be in love isn't it....we just smiled and looked at him and said "yes"..he then moved out of the way..and

said..."i'm in love to..and it's great"....we just smiled at each other...and went inside the club...

good to see that the venue has actually employed some people who talk to you like a human being!

generally the most productive, creative, inspirational crew i have ever work with...

synergy project = best party in london - by far, in my opinion...

creativity, spirituality, art, music, community and the best production without a doupt!

Markinside, Psy-Forum, 1/3/04


i would describe this party as a cross between the enchanting vibes of mindscapes & the most magikal spiritual bits of glasto festy over the years. as soon as i walked in i felt a warm welcoming energy...

Indiska, Psy-Forum 1/3/04
 
to be fair, you're still being fucking defensive and it does you - and thus synergy - a disservice. you're not really responding to many of our points. you're sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'la la la i can't hear you everybody thinks we're great'.

if you don't want to engage with our points, fine. but in that case i also don't think it's very dignified or fair to keep posting all the "GREAT STUFF" about synergy.

i tried - a few posts back - to explain why i thought (from my POV at least) why you seem to be getting a bit of a hard time. how about commenting on that, accepting any of it that might be true in your eyes and then working from there? or with what mike has said? or anna key?

surely part of the point of community action is to engage with it, not ignore it or insult it?
 
steve indigenou said:
Only those as cynical as the self-styled 'Urbanites' could have a problem with that.

see, once again you're generalising, you're being insulting and you're just not trying to engage with anybody except those saying positive things.
 
steve indigenou said:
...money was siphoned off to support the political career of the charismatic leader.

...led by this unaccountable charismatic leader

...Synergy is so much more harmoniuous than Ecotrip ever was

....hi-jacked by the charismatic leader

....I cite previous experience in Brixton with the 'charismatic leader'

...structureless environments preferred by the charismatic leader
Much as I hate to interrupt your self-congratulatory back-slapping fest, I'd be delighted if you might be good enough to:

(a) acknowledge the good advice you've been presented with here and
(b) finally tell us where you obtained your illegal spam list (I know you didn't get it from Laurence Merrit, by the way, but I'm waiting for you to honour your legal obligation and tell me yourself).

And I've no idea why you keep banging on and on about Shane here.

He very rarely posts here, he's got no connection with the admin of urban75 at all, he has no connection to any of the posters who have offered an opinion of Synergy on these boards and (AFAIK) no-one currently posting here has any direct links to anything he's involved in.

So why keep going on about him? Not only is it completely irrelevant to this discussion, but it's really tedious and makes you come over as rather a bitter chap and someone utterly obsessed by the fellow.

I counted at least five references to him in the your last post alone. You really want to get over it.
 
I'm deeply confused by the reference to "Cooltan Arts" on the Elephant Links site, with an address, supposedly, at 209 Coldharbour Lane (sorry, I don't know which end of CHL that is) .

Is this an extant organisation then? Any connection with the old Cooltan lot, or is it simply a Synergy-inspired cover organisation?? :confused:

I agree with Brainaddict about the ridiculous phrase that Stece used ... 'post rational belief systems'

Anna Key referred to anti-enlightenment hippies, well I'm a rationalist hippy who's very much anti new age wibbling with no basis in common sense ...

astronomy = science, astrology = bollocks sums it up for me quite nicely ...

Oh yes, another question, does Synergy have any connection with 345 Brixton Road? ;) Cos if so we may just possibly have met one of their people on Saturday ... not too sure at this stage as he wasn't obviously spouting ley line type wibble or crystalography nonsense .......
 
Oh and steve, t really would be worth your while to read Dub's recent post in which some quite constructive/helpful/positive advice is offered, same with Mike's.

If you can't recognise that you've brought an awful lot of your unpopularity (here on Urban I mean) on yourself, by your own posting style not least, then it's worth rereading Dub and Mike's posts to see why. It's fairly arrogant of you to ignore their substantive points in favour of a stack of self congratulatory self promotion ...

How about answering the question about spamming properly??
 
Steve - could you tell me as asked before what actual events happen at the Synergy Centre in Brixton? Not clubs but other stuff? What it does for ordinary people and not just party people? Where is it exactly, when is it open, how can I/others get involved? What would be the benefit?

By the way, I can't stand "urbanites" either. I like "urban75-people" or "urban75-ers". But that's just me.

:)
 
William of Walworth said:
I'm deeply confused by the reference to "Cooltan Arts" on the Elephant Links site
They're nothing to do with Synergy.

The 'new' Cooltan Arts is a "non-profit making arts in the community organisation. Cooltan provides a resource for people with disabilities, both artists and non-artists to work together with others, creating an inclusive environment"

Cooltan Arts website
 
Thanks for that Mike.

Presumably as the name suggests they have some connection with the former Cooltan people though?? Or not any with them either??
 
All the stuff about Shane is of direct relevance as it informs why we chose to structure Synergy in the way we did. You are free to ignore it or dismiss it. You ask for an explanation of our structure. You are given it. End of story.

Hatboy - I have sent you a proposal already outlining what the Centre will do. I can send it again if you email me at [email protected], or anyone else for that matter.

As for the unpopularity, people should start to understand that I really don't care. Courting popularity in circles that are clearly opposed to our work, without even bothering to see it first, is not a priority. So when you wonder why I refuse to play the silly games of people who would clearly love to Synergy just go away, that's the answer. To suggest that I should take advice from Mike or Dubversion is laughable. When all they do is spout vitriol and ingorance about us and what we do, all they deserve is ignoring.

Cooltan as a Synergy front organisation - another great joke !

So, have you checked their web-site then ?

"Company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales reg. 3244552"

So the new Cooltan has the same structure as Synergy !!!!!

From what I've been told Michelle had similar experiences to us and has perhaps drawn the same conclusions. I also see that they are using similar, moderate language tailored for the local authority / funding sector. Wonder why ?

Can't you see why I don't take you guys seriously ?

Steve
 
steve indigenou said:
Hatboy - I have sent you a proposal already outlining what the Centre will do. I can send it again if you email me at [email protected], or anyone else for that matter.

As for the unpopularity, people should start to understand that I really don't care. Courting popularity in circles that are clearly opposed to our work, without even bothering to see it first, is not a priority. So when you wonder why I refuse to play the silly games of people who would clearly love to Synergy just go away, that's the answer. To suggest that I should take advice from Mike or Dubversion is laughable. When all they do is spout vitriol and ingorance about us and what we do, all they deserve is ignoring.

Cooltan as a Synergy front organisation - another great joke !


Can't you see why I don't take you guys seriously ?

Steve
god, climb down off yer pulpit, geezer. NO_ONE has personalised this - except you.
And no-one has 'spouted vitriol' except you. I personally hope Synergy does well-because it's all to the good of Brixton, which I care a lot about.
And constructive criticism does not amount to a f-ing declaration of war, ffs! :oops:
 
steve you seem to be very resistant to the very easy exit strategy from this whole discussion.
Clear up the spamming issue with the people who were upset by it, then stop posting replies to people with whom you clearly have no intention of making peace. There, argument over. Ain't peace'n'love great?
 
steve indigenou said:
As for the unpopularity, people should start to understand that I really don't care. Courting popularity in circles that are clearly opposed to our work, without even bothering to see it first, is not a priority.
I don't suppose your overbearing ego will allow you to see that any 'unpopularity' for the Synergy project has been created entirely by you, as a direct result of your aggressive, pig-headed attitude, your unpleasant, obsessive and irrelevant rants about Shane and your disgraceful, disgusting spamming of u75 posters.

I don't like being spammed and the fact that some people initially thought that the spam list may have come from u75 pisses me off. So I want you to honour your legal obligation to inform me where you obtained your illegal spam list and I want you to offer an assurance that you won't be 'swapping' it with any other third parties.

As for being too proud to listen to the good advice or take in the constructive criticism that's been offered here - well, that's your loss, pal.

Sadly, it's also Synergy's loss too. I wish the project every success and would have liked to have got involved, but I'm afraid you've put me off it completely.
 
steve indigenou said:
All the stuff about Shane is of direct relevance as it informs why we chose to structure Synergy in the way we did. You are free to ignore it or dismiss it. You ask for an explanation of our structure. You are given it. End of story
Actually, I haven't shown the slightest interest in your structure - I'm afraid that's another unsubstantiated lie that you've posted up about me.

I've asked you to explain your spamming and tell me where you obtained your spam list.

It's a simple question - and legal obligation for you, too - but it appears that you seem singularly unable to answer it. Why is that? Do you think you're above the law when it comes to the Data Protection Act?
 
lang rabbie said:
Some key issues are: what do the Directors get paid, and who is able to become a member to stop the Directors getting themselves re-appointed without scrutiny.
Or, indeed, doing anything without scrutiny. Where's the democracy? Where's the accountability? And given this:
lang rabbie said:
They haven't traded for long enough to have been required to file returns at Companies House.
Where's the transparency?
lang rabbie said:
I do hope he isn't a company director of either.
steve indigenou said:
lang rabbie - at last, someone who knows what they are talking about
:D
lang rabbie said:
Don't yet have the results of my 2x£2.50 search fees for Current Appointments Reports...
I wouldn't mind seeing those.
 
steve indigenou said:
To suggest that I should take advice from Mike or Dubversion is laughable. When all they do is spout vitriol and ingorance about us and what we do, all they deserve is ignoring.
And that's another lie.

I've gone out of my way to offer constructive advice for the Synergy project.

But your contempt for anyone with accessibility issues trying to view your site is duly noted, as is your unrepentant attitude towards illegal spamming.

Shame on you.
 
lang rabbie said:
Unlike most companies, both the Synergy Centre and Synergy Communities don't need to use the word "Limited" in their title because they have claimed exemption under section 30 of the Companies Act (available only if their objects involve the promotion of commerce, art, science, education, religion, charity or a profession.) Section 30 companies may not distribute profits; instead any profits must be applied in furtherance of the company’s objects.
But should the company decide that in order to secure the "furtherance of the company’s objects" it was necessary, say, to pay a director a shit load of money they could. Nothing to stop them.

lang rabbie: when you get your companies search back it would be great if you could post how many people have votes in these two organisations. Let's see - beyond the tantric crystals - just how deep the democracy runs.
steve indigenou said:
If you don't like the fact that I cite previous experience in Brixton with the 'charismatic leader', that's too bad. The way Synergy is structured is a direct response to his methodologies.
I love the idea of Shane Collins being so dangerously charismatic that private limited companies are sprouting up all over Brixton just to avoid his malign influence.

I've only met him once and - pleasant as he was - felt no desire to enter into a suicide pact with him or to join the Branch Davidians (or even the Green Party).

Oh how the 'charismatic leader' must be laughing at this thread!
 
Steve said:

"Hatboy - I have sent you a proposal already outlining what the Centre will do. I can send it again if you email me at [email protected], or anyone else for that matter."

Not good enough. After all this pontificating about how great you are and how we are all against you (there is no mono-thought clique here, I personally fight and disagree with people who post here, for a start) I want you to briefly POST HERE where exactly this synergy community centre is in Brixton, what events you do and how (and to what benefit to them) ordinary Brixton residents can get involved.

I now do not trust you to give you my email because Synergy clearly has no privacy policy.

And you've got to see Steve that all you've done here is give your organisation a bad name and wasted an opportunity to use urban75 to spread good words about Synergy. Shame. :(
 
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