"Don't watch the DJ, YOU're the show." and the Design of Clubs
- Thread starter Crispy
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mojo pixy
שיר חדש
In my memory the layout of 414 on coldharbour lane is great. One floor all dance floor with a bar to one side and tiny dj booth more or less at one end of the bar. Then another floor all chillout, with an exit to an outdoor area well above street level.
It could really do with being bigger (and another stairway!) but as an overall layout I think it's ideal for a club.
It could really do with being bigger (and another stairway!) but as an overall layout I think it's ideal for a club.
ska invita
back on the other side
Lots of thoughts! Some already mentioned...
Even the early glory days of British Rave had big stages with the DJ up on a podium, your Sunrises and Raindances, and that was true for the indoor ones too, not to mention theatre venues. And to a certain extent people did make rows and look forward. But the biggest factor was the drugs and the level of highness! That made people want to connect with each other. More than architecture it was that mutual mash up ness that created the eye contact culture.
I remember clearly when it stopped being like that, second half of the 90s when I made eye contact with someone and they looked at me like I was mad. This was the era of coke infiltrating British culture, and the shared culture sobering up (to some extent) and smartening up. Of course not everywhere at the same time, but overall.
Another factor in the early days is that venues could be genuinely dark and smoked and strobe filled and designed to make you lose your sense of place. Thats one of the biggest losses for me in 'clubbing', not being able to experience loud music in the dark. Lighting and visuals and smoke is a factor.
Pre and post big rave small clubs had more of a role and DJs often on floor level and even better in a built in booth or cage. One of the things that got me into dub dances was that DJS were on the floor with the crowd, back facing (not that unlike boiler room tbh). This is the way it should be and i do hate metal barriers in these situations but I appreciate it can be necessary.
And yes the big change in the late 90s was superstar and superclub DJ culture. That only really effected shit music clubs, but the effect trickled down.
Boiler Room looks cringey but its actually a step in the right direction in DJS rubbing shoulders with dancers and on the same level.
Thinking of actual venues The End has been mentioned and that was great design---effectivley the room a long vault corridor, the booth half way down in the middle of the dancefloor and yes you could crowd around the DJ there but at either end you could barely see the booth as I remember it.
And fair play to Fabric, the main room cage booth really hides the DJ and Ive had times in there were people forget the DJ to some extent when people play from that booth. They do also have a stage option though.
So i reckon key elements, DJ on dancefloor level, lighting as dark as possible with smoke etc, free drugs on entry, and a dancefloor shape that isnt a big hall but ideally broken up a bit with this and that, irregular shape. Labrynth FOur Aces another... loads of small nooks.
Speaker positioning is important too, if youve just got two stacks up front you want to face them. As much surround sound speaker placing as possible. People will turn their back on the front to face a speaker stack 'behind' them.
Even the early glory days of British Rave had big stages with the DJ up on a podium, your Sunrises and Raindances, and that was true for the indoor ones too, not to mention theatre venues. And to a certain extent people did make rows and look forward. But the biggest factor was the drugs and the level of highness! That made people want to connect with each other. More than architecture it was that mutual mash up ness that created the eye contact culture.
I remember clearly when it stopped being like that, second half of the 90s when I made eye contact with someone and they looked at me like I was mad. This was the era of coke infiltrating British culture, and the shared culture sobering up (to some extent) and smartening up. Of course not everywhere at the same time, but overall.
Another factor in the early days is that venues could be genuinely dark and smoked and strobe filled and designed to make you lose your sense of place. Thats one of the biggest losses for me in 'clubbing', not being able to experience loud music in the dark. Lighting and visuals and smoke is a factor.
Pre and post big rave small clubs had more of a role and DJs often on floor level and even better in a built in booth or cage. One of the things that got me into dub dances was that DJS were on the floor with the crowd, back facing (not that unlike boiler room tbh). This is the way it should be and i do hate metal barriers in these situations but I appreciate it can be necessary.
And yes the big change in the late 90s was superstar and superclub DJ culture. That only really effected shit music clubs, but the effect trickled down.
Boiler Room looks cringey but its actually a step in the right direction in DJS rubbing shoulders with dancers and on the same level.
Thinking of actual venues The End has been mentioned and that was great design---effectivley the room a long vault corridor, the booth half way down in the middle of the dancefloor and yes you could crowd around the DJ there but at either end you could barely see the booth as I remember it.
And fair play to Fabric, the main room cage booth really hides the DJ and Ive had times in there were people forget the DJ to some extent when people play from that booth. They do also have a stage option though.
So i reckon key elements, DJ on dancefloor level, lighting as dark as possible with smoke etc, free drugs on entry, and a dancefloor shape that isnt a big hall but ideally broken up a bit with this and that, irregular shape. Labrynth FOur Aces another... loads of small nooks.
Speaker positioning is important too, if youve just got two stacks up front you want to face them. As much surround sound speaker placing as possible. People will turn their back on the front to face a speaker stack 'behind' them.
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ska invita
back on the other side
I was in Amsterdam in summer of 1992 and went to a warehosue rave...first two hours was UK hardcore, people danced in lines broadly facing forward...then the gabba came on... and out of nowhere the nutters took their shirts off and stomped and practically ran around in a massive circle, clockwise, as if around a campfire...a good example of how its more in the heart and mind than in the building.....though I think designing it in as a great idea and cause
ska invita
back on the other side
good point that, flows of people upsetting dancefloor space is really shit and stops creating dancefloor energyThe only really important thing is that the route to the toilets and smoking area is not through the dance floor.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
Floor plans of Studio 54 here: STUDIO 54 — BROMLEY CALDARI ARCHITECTS
A converted Opera house, what used to be the stage area is where the dancefloor was (I understand the balcony is where the debauchery was).
ska invita
back on the other side
My memory (lol) of the Fridge is that it had something like 8 speakers stacks effectively in a circle, front side and back - really rated that.Anyone remember Escape from Samsara at the Fridge. Wild.
ska invita
back on the other side
Some of this covered in this old thread - which reminds me, venues getting too over filled to capacity - if you want people to actually dance they need space to do so - and if they get into dancing then they wont stand around watching
www.urban75.net
Overcrowding and the death of dancing
The other night I went to a dream line up DnB night (Exit Records 10th bday) at Fire in Vauxhall and after slugging it out for 2 hours was forced to leave before the night had barely got going because it was overcrowded. No room to dance and near impossible to move around the venue. Its left me...
www.urban75.net
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
They've been selling Lakota for about 20 years I think. It'll be a sad day when it goes though I don't actually go there that often.
DVS1 talking about the wall of sound events that he did here where the DJ was off centre: his background was freeparties in Minnesota if I remember correctly.
I have more to say but not much time at the moment. Generally I hang around the back of a rave as I love to see the rig and everyone dancing and there is more space. I went to Sini Soundsystem at the weekend to see Ben UFO and it was great - quite dark and understated lights I didn't actually see any of the DJs all night.
Each to their own though.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
I was so out of it in there one night that I bought a load of pills of someone when I had loads in my pocket. I genuinely forgot I had some. My mate said “but you’ve got some”. “Oh yeh”.
I also remember at places like Camden palace, the fridge, and big One Nations where there was effectively open air drug markets along one wall, always a wall or a side of the venue. A lot of my school friends occupied that wall in Camden palace.
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Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
S
Can you remember what was where? As far as I can tell the bar was along the bottom side, in front of the windows to the lightwell, with the DJ booth at the end. Any scribbles welcome!
Plastic People jumped to mind for some reason, theres a few good quotes here
Plastic People Remembered by the People Who Shaped It
Instead of a dour obituary, we asked a few people involved with the club to share their memories.www.vice.com
was at this night among many others around then, they were my favourite club experiences... just going on your own after work for a few hours, no need to talk to anyone, just bobbing in a cloud of smoke
Can you remember what was where? As far as I can tell the bar was along the bottom side, in front of the windows to the lightwell, with the DJ booth at the end. Any scribbles welcome!
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Chill out rooms were great too, proper comfy with spliffs being blazed everywhere and the music just slightly down. I often would fall asleep though, or just sit there hallucinating for two hours. Fabric ones were a particular fav with all the hvac systems in the ceiling shaking and vibrating with the rapid eye movement.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
It sounds cliched but in regards the building I liked them dark, mazy, comfy areas you could sprawl out, plenty of space but not too much space. A good club or rave was like entering a different realm. Didn’t have to be fancy, and certainly not “posh” and manicured, but anything that gave off a sense of being a secret weird world.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
An interesting building/infrastructure moment was during an Andy c set in fabric and they turned all the lights on just before a drop. Left them on for about 30 seconds and then beat kicked in. Every single light in the main dancehall bit. Everyone suddenly looked like zombies. Everyone laughing and spaced out completely disoriented. Then they turned them off again when the record kicked in. Was amazing and we were talking about it for weeks after. I guess that’s building related. I miss being 21.
ska invita
back on the other side
no chill out rooms anymore either, they need bringing back
Skim
Well-Known Member
I loved the Drome (was it renamed SE1?). A maze of rooms, people and music but I can’t remember seeing any DJs in booths. I think it used to be a car park before a club venue, or maybe it still was a car park when it wasn’t a club venue.
Thinking about the spaces of clubs, I always loved squat parties the most. There was one I went to in East Ham and we wandered through the venue to find a quiet chillout space. We ended up in a disused office, sitting at what had been someone’s desk, rifling through the documents in their drawer. And there was the printworks somewhere near Walthamstow, dancing in a kitchen area with Page 3 pinups smiling at us from the walls
Thinking about the spaces of clubs, I always loved squat parties the most. There was one I went to in East Ham and we wandered through the venue to find a quiet chillout space. We ended up in a disused office, sitting at what had been someone’s desk, rifling through the documents in their drawer. And there was the printworks somewhere near Walthamstow, dancing in a kitchen area with Page 3 pinups smiling at us from the walls
Skim
Well-Known Member
People dancing without looking at the DJ, with the lights on:
Return To The Source at The Rocket on Holloway Road - 4:3
Return To The Source at The Rocket on Holloway Road - 4:3
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
I still go to a few, last few years have been to the ministry, xoyo, egg, phonex, hootenany (my fav) and they have changed. I cannot be arsed with the “for the better/worse” angle but they def have changed. I think they are more part of a kind of life style rather than a genuine subversive counter cultural movement which they were. Even when the big crims got involved, well crims are subversive too. But on the other hand maybe less chaos and grime makes it more enjoyable for more people over more time. Maybe having healthier approaches to your weekend consumption of substances is better. The few youngsters who I am friends with who go and take class As and rave are far more rational and sensible than my lot back then. They hold things together and down very well. They love a step count the next day and a trip to the gym lol we used to spend the next day sprawled out in the park drinking Stella with our tops off
things have changed but so does everything. I honestly wouldn’t underestimate the fact of phones too. That adds a whole other level of change I feel. They just were not there for us in the main.
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hiccup
King of the Vagabonds
There's some interesting stuff in this podcast* about Berghain, and how tax inspectors tried to define whether clubs were "a performance" (crowd facing the performer/dj) or "entertainment" (crowd not facing the dj) .
www.searchengine.show
*from around 39 mins in
Search Engine | Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
www.searchengine.show
*from around 39 mins in
hiccup
King of the Vagabonds
Was a bit worried I'd spot myself in that film.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Used to love watching the djs through the glass at The End. You literally were standing next to them pretty muchLots of thoughts! Some already mentioned...
Even the early glory days of British Rave had big stages with the DJ up on a podium, your Sunrises and Raindances, and that was true for the indoor ones too, not to mention theatre venues. And to a certain extent people did make rows and look forward. But the biggest factor was the drugs and the level of highness! That made people want to connect with each other. More than architecture it was that mutual mash up ness that created the eye contact culture.
I remember clearly when it stopped being like that, second half of the 90s when I made eye contact with someone and they looked at me like I was mad. This was the era of coke infiltrating British culture, and the shared culture sobering up (to some extent) and smartening up. Of course not everywhere at the same time, but overall.
Another factor in the early days is that venues could be genuinely dark and smoked and strobe filled and designed to make you lose your sense of place. Thats one of the biggest losses for me in 'clubbing', not being able to experience loud music in the dark. Lighting and visuals and smoke is a factor.
Pre and post big rave small clubs had more of a role and DJs often on floor level and even better in a built in booth or cage. One of the things that got me into dub dances was that DJS were on the floor with the crowd, back facing (not that unlike boiler room tbh). This is the way it should be and i do hate metal barriers in these situations but I appreciate it can be necessary.
And yes the big change in the late 90s was superstar and superclub DJ culture. That only really effected shit music clubs, but the effect trickled down.
Boiler Room looks cringey but its actually a step in the right direction in DJS rubbing shoulders with dancers and on the same level.
Thinking of actual venues The End has been mentioned and that was great design---effectivley the room a long vault corridor, the booth half way down in the middle of the dancefloor and yes you could crowd around the DJ there but at either end you could barely see the booth as I remember it.
And fair play to Fabric, the main room cage booth really hides the DJ and Ive had times in there were people forget the DJ to some extent when people play from that booth. They do also have a stage option though.
So i reckon key elements, DJ on dancefloor level, lighting as dark as possible with smoke etc, free drugs on entry, and a dancefloor shape that isnt a big hall but ideally broken up a bit with this and that, irregular shape. Labrynth FOur Aces another... loads of small nooks.
Speaker positioning is important too, if youve just got two stacks up front you want to face them. As much surround sound speaker placing as possible. People will turn their back on the front to face a speaker stack 'behind' them.
yeh I'll sketch soon... basically a rectangular basement but the dancefloor and booth was separated from rest of room by a wall of speakers... as I remember
ska invita
back on the other side
i remember it like this - there was a back wall with a door and the bar was separated out from the dancefloor ???
could there be a wall missing from the drawings?
my memory is crap though. The booth position is definitely right though
or even
ska invita
back on the other side
Like this picture is looking towards where the Bar is on your drawing and its not there
There's some interesting stuff in this podcast* about Berghain, and how tax inspectors tried to define whether clubs were "a performance" (crowd facing the performer/dj) or "entertainment" (crowd not facing the dj) .
Search Engine | Why didn’t Chris and Dan get into Berghain? (Part 1)
*from around 39 mins in
from memory it's quite hard to see the DJs in Berghain. helps that it's fucking dark.
whereas Panorama Bar is much brighter and you can basically reach out and touch the DJ, who is on your level and just part of the atmosphere stood behind some decks.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Excellent scribbles, thank you
ska invita
back on the other side
i might be wrongExcellent scribbles, thank you
if i'm right the importance of not having a bar on the dancefloor, or even in the same room, is a good design feature i think
i know someone who used to go to a Leigh Bowery style dress up discoclash night in Soho...I never went but supposedly the dancefloor was carpeted but it had a policy of no drinks on the dancefloor - if you wanted a drink you had to leave the floor , possibly go through a door, and drink in the bar, which wasnt carpeted. Kind of love that. Thats another big "IIRC"
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