Spammed by the Synergy Project
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zubaier said:
in spite of the fact that they spammed U75 about it? and then spammed individual posters? they seem keen on our attention...
editor
hiraethified
I think Steve managed to surpass that with his bizarre and unprovoked defamatory personal assault on Shane (who had no right of reply at the time).Loki said:
And if that wasn't bad enough, he then managed to cap that off with a bout of disgraceful spamming to the u75 community.
I really want him to tell me where he got got my personal email addresses from and also the addresses of other (equally uninterested and non-subscribed) urban75 posters.
Then I'd like him to explain why he thinks that acting like a low life, illegally spamming scumbag is compatible with his organisation's stated aims and his government funded status.
Spamming is unforgivable, full stop.
miss minnie
Well-Known Member
well i've had a look at vbulletin and the email addresses are held in a password-secured database. you'd have to have that name/password combination and know what you are doing in order to get anyone's email address from there. i can never remember it and afaik i'm the only other person mike's given it to. then you'd have to sift through 6,000 or so users to select the one's you want.
email addresses are not embedded in any hmtl, such as the member's list page.
afaict, most people have the vbulletin option to be emailed switched off, mike certainly does and his personal email addresses are not embedded in the urban75 website html anywhere that i've looked.
there are still parts of the server i haven't spelunked yet, but i reckon someone would have to be pretty good (or evil?) and go to an awful lot of trouble to get a few select email addresses. so i don't think it's a security issue - if it was i reckon we'd all have been spammed by various companies by now.
if the spammer doesn't come clean you'll just have to work out what the spammees have in common - mailing lists perhaps? dunno, will think more on it later.
email addresses are not embedded in any hmtl, such as the member's list page.
afaict, most people have the vbulletin option to be emailed switched off, mike certainly does and his personal email addresses are not embedded in the urban75 website html anywhere that i've looked.
there are still parts of the server i haven't spelunked yet, but i reckon someone would have to be pretty good (or evil?) and go to an awful lot of trouble to get a few select email addresses. so i don't think it's a security issue - if it was i reckon we'd all have been spammed by various companies by now.
if the spammer doesn't come clean you'll just have to work out what the spammees have in common - mailing lists perhaps? dunno, will think more on it later.
I agree. If you're a public sector housing activist you either deal with the council or lose out. Same with trade unionism. You deal with the employer or members get screwed. There are countless examples of 'active citizenship' where not to engage is synonym for failure.Gramsci said:
I also agree about the "Tyranny of Structurelessness." With one exception the 'non-hierachical' (cod-anarchist) organisations I've been involved with ended (or started and ended) as undemocratic power trips for those with the loudest voices or biggest muscles or those who were most articulate or confident at public meetings.
Money disappeared, there was poor internal political discipline and anti-social behaviour or bullying within the group was tolerated: viewed as somehow 'authentic' or 'anarchist' or 'cool' or "not bourgeois."
Plus the structures had no sustaining powers. The groups were inherently unstable as democracy, transparency and accountablility were ruled out (on ideological grounds) as stabilising mechanisms.
What's slightly worrying about Synergy is this:
And this:steve indigenou said:
So on the one hand Synergy is a collaborationist, entryist venture - nothing wrong with that - which nevertheless seems to be making the mistakes of the "Tyranny of Structurelessness."steve indigenou said:
Where's Synergy's democracy, transparency and accountability?
I've checked the website and all I can find is hippy stuff (nothing wrong with that). Where's the constitution setting out how the Synergy "communities" are controlled and financed?
Presumably as these are "properly constituted non-profit organisations " there are accounts and controlling democratic mechanisms. Where are they? Surely they can't be secret or semi secret documents? Or are you running a private limited company (I've not checked Companies House yet).
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Loki said:Yep Steve never made the cooltan link at all, was someone else and that was possibly the worst way it could have started with urbanites. Will address your other points when I'm sober
I saw Indymedia have a piece on Synergy project which does link Synergy project with Cooltan.Piece appears to have been written by Synergyproject person.So Im not clear on this issue-either Synergyproject do a have link(and I use term link in broad sense)or not.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/02/285125.html
And Im not trying to have go here-Im trying to get some clarity.I read the piece linked above.In fact the idea of those labelled as "squatter" in a pejorative sense trying to use their talents and different perspective on life in "urban regeneration" is an interesting idea.
editor
hiraethified
Can someone help me out here: This seems to be a load of meaningless buzzword gobbledygook:
And how does a night in a very expensive nightclub affect 'meaningful social change, ethical and sustainable living'?
And which members of Synergy were "closely involved" with the Cooltan Arts Centre?
And I do hope Steve will be along shortly to explain where he got his urban75 spam list from and how he thinks such unethical conduct fits with the stated aims of his organisation.
That doesn't seem too much to ask considering the amount of emails I've received from him recently.
Exactly what is a 'frontier' of dance music and how can it be 'pushed back'?
And how does a night in a very expensive nightclub affect 'meaningful social change, ethical and sustainable living'?
And which members of Synergy were "closely involved" with the Cooltan Arts Centre?
And I do hope Steve will be along shortly to explain where he got his urban75 spam list from and how he thinks such unethical conduct fits with the stated aims of his organisation.
That doesn't seem too much to ask considering the amount of emails I've received from him recently.
steve indigenou
New Member
editor said:
First the good news, there's not been a security breach on U75. We did a emailing list trade with a friendly organisation, who we did a favour for at the same time. We discussed the issue of spam at the time, and both thought it wouldn't be a problem. I will be discussing it with them on Monday, having already left a message that this has come up. I am sure that they would be happy to discuss it with Mike and will ask them to call him asap to clarify their position.
I also think this Spam issue is just a smokescreen for underlying issues about Cooltan, Shane, and the ideology of engagement, with the old-timers in Brixton feeling threatened by a new organisation with a different approach of which they're suspicious. I haven't got the time and energy to indulge the petty play-ground (or should it be farm-yard) politics of Mike and Dubversion for as I've made pretty clear, I don't give a shit what they think about me or Synergy, largely because other people (who can have an impact on the success of the project) matter alot more, so I'm going to put my energies into enaging with them, which will benefit the people I work with alot more than defending ourselves on U75.
I could go into some length about the issues surrounding stucture and engagement, but have done so elsewhere to little avail. When the centre opens, I will be happy to sit down and debate the finer points with the contributors who are more interested in discussing real issues than heaping abuse on us.
Synergy is a private non-profit company limited by guarantee.
Cooltan Arts, are probably now the same and are, with a delightful twist of irony, now engaged in Southwark's Single Regeneration Budget (SRB) scheme, which is the counterpart to the Lambeth Raising our Sights programme that is funding the Synergy Centre.
for more info see : http://www.elephantlinks.co.uk/contacts/contactDetails.cfm?SubjectID=71&subsubjectid=242&viewby=3
I could say alot about New Age Mysticism and Dance Culture, the merits of post-rational belief systems and the like, but when all Mike will do is to come back with some more foul-mouthed abuse as a substitute for an argument, it hardly seems worthwhile.
One more thing.
While I have a lot of respect for the work some of the U75 people have done campaigning against the Merrits in Brixton (an issue on which we are very much in agreement), U75 should not kid itself that the Council pay you that much attention or that you should think of yourselves as having the monopoly on activist-cool in Brixton. Of course, U75 is just a forum, but to me it seems that Mike seems to think that he has some monopoly of wisdom on what is what around here.
For too long, Shane, Mike, Marky and co have been doing things in the same way, and in my eyes not really doing much of any lasting value. Synergy represents a threat to their status as the local alternative cultural vanguard, and they are pissed off as anything that we're actually doing well. So don't expect me to get all flustered when you guys have a pop, as to get all wound up about it will just indulge your pettiness.
The bottom line is this :
Organisations supporting Synergy :
Oxfam
War on Want
Amnesty
Actionaid
Vegan Society,
The Gaia Foundation
Tourism Concern
Survival International.
Anti-Apathy
United Diversity
Lambeth Education Business Partnership
and before too long, the Arts Council of England too...
plus all the people who come to our parties, as they did last night, and say how brilliant they are.
People who say Synergy is shit :
Mike Slocombe
Dubversion
and others who neither know me nor my work.
And you expect me to bend over backwards and grovel in the face of your vitriol ?
Hardly.
i'm not sure i've ever read anything quite so self-regarding on these boards. ever. like, ever.....
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
well 'lasting value' aside i think this is all pretty pointless, let's let the Synergy project do their community work and stop slagging them off. It's only a bleedin email everyone from some misunderstood list sharing, calm down.
more Synergy, son of Cooltan? this weeks Big Issue
Big Issue, Feb 23-29, Clubs Section, The Synergy Project, 'Fiddly Squat'
Second para
"Synergy is a joining of forces of some of the key players behind key 'concious clubbing' events such as The Warp Experience, as well as underground entities like Brixton's Cooltan Arts Centre."
(who are these key people?)
next para is direct quote of steve
laters
atty
Gramsci said:
Big Issue, Feb 23-29, Clubs Section, The Synergy Project, 'Fiddly Squat'
Second para
"Synergy is a joining of forces of some of the key players behind key 'concious clubbing' events such as The Warp Experience, as well as underground entities like Brixton's Cooltan Arts Centre."
(who are these key people?)
next para is direct quote of steve
laters
atty
Well my take on it is the Synergy project have been roundly attacked on the boards, even before they've had a chance to prove themselves. Aside from the (rightly) critical comments about the chakra nonsense, the spams (lets face it - not a big deal) and the sniping at Shane, I feel you're being a bit antagonistic to them before they've had a chance to prove themselves. And I agree Steve hasn't improved matters with his posting style but that's neither here nor there.Dubversion said:
I personally would be chuffed if the synergy project succeeds and the Brixton synergy centre takes off.
DJ Wrongspeed I agree.
editor
hiraethified
I'd hate to think that you're a liar, so I'd be delighted if you could find a single quote from me to that effect.steve indigenou said:
Despite your paranoid delusions,I wish Synergy every success, but if you can't see the damage that your bullish, aggressive attitude is creating in what should be a sympathetic forum, or understand why people react strongly to your spamming, then Synergy may fall short of its potential.
Doesn't that bother you? There's a lot of people here (myself included) who would instinctively want to get involved with a project like Synergy, but the way you've conducted yourself here has created a really negative impression.
Despite your hysterical over-reaction and deluded claims that I'm somehow jealous of Synergy (trust me, I'm not!), I've actually given you some good, solid advice. Maybe you should try and take it in this time:
1. NEVER spam people. Whether you can understand the reaction you've had here or not is immaterial: spamming breaches the terms of your ISPs Acceptable User Policy, and if you persist you will find your server space cancelled.
2. Falsely claiming an association with Cooltan is likely to create ill feeling and resentment amongst those who were actually involved in the project. So don't do it.
3. Your site is a nightmare for anyone with accessibility issues. If you're being publicly funded, there's the chance that someone may (rightly) take you to task. I've already pointed this out to you, but you don't seem particularly interested. You should be.
4. Admit to where you obtained the spamming list.
For the record, I'm not really interested in whether you think u75 provides anything of 'lasting value' compared to Synergy. That's never been its intent. urban75 is just a website with a busy bulletin board, that's all.
There's no pompously worded mission statements, it doesn't receive any public funding and we don't demand pots of cash for our events (they're either free or donations ).
And you won't find any bongo chakra alignment going on either. We're in quite different worlds - so why act like it's a competition?
And I definitely have absolutely no interest in making any claims about belonging to the 'local alternative cultural vanguard' (whatever that is)
That's clearly a title you covet so, frankly, you're welcome to it.
And all that charadee willy waving makes you sound a bit like Smash'n'Nicey.
Trust me. That's not cool!
PS Which members of Synergy were "closely involved" with the Cooltan Arts Centre?
PPS Where did you get your urban75 spam list from?
Synergy, Smashie? Spam-tastic, mate!
editor
hiraethified
I'm sorry, but I reserve the right to be 'antagonistic' to anyone who spams me repeatedly. I'm fed up with the stuff.Loki said:
And I really do expect better from an organisation trumpeting its ethical high ground.
I wish Synergy every success. So much so that I'd suggest they get someone else from the organisation to post here instead because Steve is hardly the best advert for the place.
With every fresh ego-boosting rant and unwanted spam he must be losing potential supporters...
steve - consider this, well not an olive branch as such, but perhaps an attempt at understanding.
i'm prepared to concede that i may have been overly vitriolic about Synergy, but instead of talking about who's right and who's wrong, let's try and look at impressions...
first off, there's the spurious Cooltan link. i know this wasn't your doing, but you have to admit that it was bound to get people's backs up. so - even though it wasn't synergy's fault, necessarily, you were already on the back foot so to speak..
then to be honest your initial posts did seem like they were calculated to irritate - from my point of view, it seemed on the one hand a little self-aggrandising, and at the same time - by laying into somebody who (rightly or wrongly, this is about impressions, remember) is well thought of by a lot of people on these boards and in brixton generally.
by this point - and again, i'm not actually making a judgement either way - you've lost a lot of sympathy. but i just felt that rather than accepting that Synergy had got off on the wrong track and trying to make amends, you became (IMO) highly critical of the boards and the people involved. again, surely not the best way of garnering interest, and certainly not support.
then to spam the very people who (rightly or wrongly) are feeling some degree of antipathy towards Synergy for the aforementioned reasons? utter folly, surely, and BOUND to irritate.
so all i'm saying is if you think synergy has been given a rough ride, rather than attacking these boards you could pause for thought and wonder why this has happened?
to be honest, i'm prepared to lay my cards on the table and say i don't like what The Synergy Project is. but that actually doesn't matter - it's just my opinion. and even if things hadn't got off to a bad start, i'd have STILL taken the piss a bit - that's what i do, and talk of chakras and the like just pushes all my sarcasm buttons. i have a problem with a lot of synergy projects ideas, and if this had all started differently i might have been happy to argue the toss.
but it didn't happen that way. i'm not quite going to apologise for being a little aggressive - if you try and stand in my shoes, perhaps you can see why i ended up feeling the way i did. i just think that by taking people's irritation at getting spammed as an excuse to start mudslinging about some mythical cultural vanguard and who does most work in the community or whatever is just going to really fuck people off. can't you see that?
so - the synergy project. everything i hate, but then i hate the beatles and people think that makes me weird too. but for most of us, our sole contact with the synergy project has been you, and for various reasons that hasn't gone very well, has it?
i'm prepared to concede that i may have been overly vitriolic about Synergy, but instead of talking about who's right and who's wrong, let's try and look at impressions...
first off, there's the spurious Cooltan link. i know this wasn't your doing, but you have to admit that it was bound to get people's backs up. so - even though it wasn't synergy's fault, necessarily, you were already on the back foot so to speak..
then to be honest your initial posts did seem like they were calculated to irritate - from my point of view, it seemed on the one hand a little self-aggrandising, and at the same time - by laying into somebody who (rightly or wrongly, this is about impressions, remember) is well thought of by a lot of people on these boards and in brixton generally.
by this point - and again, i'm not actually making a judgement either way - you've lost a lot of sympathy. but i just felt that rather than accepting that Synergy had got off on the wrong track and trying to make amends, you became (IMO) highly critical of the boards and the people involved. again, surely not the best way of garnering interest, and certainly not support.
then to spam the very people who (rightly or wrongly) are feeling some degree of antipathy towards Synergy for the aforementioned reasons? utter folly, surely, and BOUND to irritate.
so all i'm saying is if you think synergy has been given a rough ride, rather than attacking these boards you could pause for thought and wonder why this has happened?
to be honest, i'm prepared to lay my cards on the table and say i don't like what The Synergy Project is. but that actually doesn't matter - it's just my opinion. and even if things hadn't got off to a bad start, i'd have STILL taken the piss a bit - that's what i do, and talk of chakras and the like just pushes all my sarcasm buttons. i have a problem with a lot of synergy projects ideas, and if this had all started differently i might have been happy to argue the toss.
but it didn't happen that way. i'm not quite going to apologise for being a little aggressive - if you try and stand in my shoes, perhaps you can see why i ended up feeling the way i did. i just think that by taking people's irritation at getting spammed as an excuse to start mudslinging about some mythical cultural vanguard and who does most work in the community or whatever is just going to really fuck people off. can't you see that?
so - the synergy project. everything i hate, but then i hate the beatles and people think that makes me weird too. but for most of us, our sole contact with the synergy project has been you, and for various reasons that hasn't gone very well, has it?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Steve
just one tiny point; READ what others are sayting. it's hardly a slatefest is it-bar yourself, that is. why so confrontationaland antagonistic? espesh when the point re;spamming is a fair one?
just one tiny point; READ what others are sayting. it's hardly a slatefest is it-bar yourself, that is. why so confrontationaland antagonistic? espesh when the point re;spamming is a fair one?
I think this first appeared on these boards quiet some time ago - not the occasion of the Cooltan related slagging, but about a year or more ago. As I recall, there was very little comment at the time, other than a "not everyone's cup of tea, but good luck to them if they get something up and going" type of thing.
Which is still pretty much my view, except for:
Is this really the case? Do people who think they're giving money to help people in the Third World realise they're "supporting" some kind of nightclub in the UK? In what sense are these charities "supporting" Synergy. Have they lent their names for a fundraising kick-back or what?
Which is still pretty much my view, except for:
Is this really the case? Do people who think they're giving money to help people in the Third World realise they're "supporting" some kind of nightclub in the UK? In what sense are these charities "supporting" Synergy. Have they lent their names for a fundraising kick-back or what?
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Synergy is clearly not to everyone's taste - not mine anyway - but fairplay for the good work they appear to be doing. However, it's a shame that a) synergy wrongly spammed people, and b) Steve got so indignant about it when he was criticised for it. Steve: I might have actually been interested in Synergy had it not had all that spritiualist stuff on the website. Any remnants of interest I had were destroyed when I read your comments - I guess many other Urbanites (who could have been potential supporters) might now feel the same. Sorry Steve but you've dug your own grave here. Good luck with your work anyway.
In terms of the email list, Steve said it was some local organisation who he "swapped" with. I'm sure that's illegal under the Data Protection Act - data can only be held for the purposes for which it was originally obtained (i.e. you can't just swap it with someone). It's a shame that Steve's spam conversation concluded that "we didn't think it would be a problem." That's pretty lax and displays a certain ignorance. The actual people who gave him the list is anyone's guess, but think of the local organisations who might have extensive local email address lists:
The Ritzy
Larry's Living/Red Star empire
The Dogstar
Mass
Bug Bar/restaurant
The defunkt Brixtonline website
The Council (via the Area Forum etc)
etc etc
...it could be anyone...
In terms of the email list, Steve said it was some local organisation who he "swapped" with. I'm sure that's illegal under the Data Protection Act - data can only be held for the purposes for which it was originally obtained (i.e. you can't just swap it with someone). It's a shame that Steve's spam conversation concluded that "we didn't think it would be a problem." That's pretty lax and displays a certain ignorance. The actual people who gave him the list is anyone's guess, but think of the local organisations who might have extensive local email address lists:
The Ritzy
Larry's Living/Red Star empire
The Dogstar
Mass
Bug Bar/restaurant
The defunkt Brixtonline website
The Council (via the Area Forum etc)
etc etc
...it could be anyone...
editor
hiraethified
Let's just say I've had a bit of inside info which has helped me narrow the list down a bit - and I'm not surprised at who the chief suspect it.Brixton Hatter said:
Steve's chummy 'swapping' of email lists is indeed in clear contravention of the Data Protection Act and puts him at risk of a £5,000 fine - money I'm sure Synergy can ill-afford.
He is also obliged - by law - to comply with any requests made by data subjects as to the source of his list. I'm still waiting, Steve.
Data Protection Act
i went to synergy on saturday, 15 quid is not a bad entry price for a 10-8 club with 4 or 5 rooms, but the beer and cloak room were a right rip off, there were tarot readers, and crystal sellers, loads of hippy capitalism (but hey i got to drink for free all night thanks to my own entrepreneuship ) um don't know if i'll ever go again but i did quite enjoy it especially the live stage and fantasmagoria and pinkandruby or whatever they're called
) um don't know if i'll ever go again but i did quite enjoy it especially the live stage and fantasmagoria and pinkandruby or whatever they're calledBrainaddict
slight system overdrive
I have nothing to say on the spamming debate, but I would just like to protest at the phrase 'post-rational belief system'. You see, what I think you should have said is 'pre-rational belief system'.
It may not seem an important distinction to some, but I'd say that when people feel happy ignoring 350 years of philosophical and scientific thought just because they have randomly adopted some pre-packaged beliefs from another culture, they may well be fooling themselves in some way...
A post-rational belief system would not ignore those hundreds of years of rational thought, it would incorporate it. It would, in all likelihood, not be a belief system at all.
Edit, to clarify the distinction: Example of a post-rational novel: Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon. Example of a pre-rational novel: The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho.
Okay, off my little hobby-horse now.
It may not seem an important distinction to some, but I'd say that when people feel happy ignoring 350 years of philosophical and scientific thought just because they have randomly adopted some pre-packaged beliefs from another culture, they may well be fooling themselves in some way...
A post-rational belief system would not ignore those hundreds of years of rational thought, it would incorporate it. It would, in all likelihood, not be a belief system at all.
Edit, to clarify the distinction: Example of a post-rational novel: Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon. Example of a pre-rational novel: The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho.
Okay, off my little hobby-horse now.
