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[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

LynnDoyleCooper said:
The Assad analogy isn't a bad one actually.

If you're 'on the left' and you have a position where you're defending Assad, or even 'just being critical' of the news coming out of Syria, and you look around and those with the same position of you are a nasty fucked up bunch of anti-semites, mad Stalinists, and dickhead conspiracy theorists, it's time to have a think about your position.
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Yeah especially if you fetishsise the YPG and then notice Trump armed them.
 
Sea Star said:
A friend, colleague and TU comrade of mine - from a discussion among women in the RMT - came up with this as a starting point.
Solidarity for both trans rights and women's rights
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In some ways this makes the argument for self identification just as sharply as any other contribution to the debate, so it's not something that squares the circle, magics up some mythical agreement etc. But it's very refreshing to simply see the issue discussed in the context of a wider movement and with an analysis of wider patterns of exploitation.
 
I have requested the transgender perplexed thread is reopened. I await the FridgeMagnet response.
I don't think a thread about the bookfair should be the arena for all trans politics discussion.

I don't want this thread shut when some poster takes offence either for themselves or worse on behalf of another.
 
TopCat said:
I have requested the transgender perplexed thread is reopened. I await the FridgeMagnet response.
I don't think a thread about the bookfair should be the arena for all trans politics discussion.

I don't want this thread shut when some poster takes offence either for themselves or worse on behalf of another.
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Or we could start a new thread with a title and an OP that is respectful to all sides and not clearly an attack on trans people.
 
TopCat said:
Totally taking us away from the bookfair and any solutions to the shut down.
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Yeah, OK, back to the topic, I agree, I don't think this thread about the Bookfair should become a thread about all issues trans related, apologies if I in part dragged it that way.

So, I'm gutted and angry about the Bookfair, but I don't actually see anything that can be put in place by the Bookfair organizers to solve the problems though, I think it's something that's going to have to be dealt with by the wider movement. And until that gets done I don't think a Bookfair will happen without massive conflict.

And like I've said before it's not just about trans issues at the Bookfair. People were demanding banners and all sorts of other stuff be declared 'unwelcome'.
 
TopCat said:
I'm not interested in a Morning Star is going down the pan discussion but am very interested in frogwoman's assertion that it ran anti semetic articles. I haven't read The M Star for years but still would be surprised and a bit shocked if the assertion is true.
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She didn't say articles she said anti-semitic bullshit in which i'm assuming she's referencing this post:

butchersapron said:
And guess whose been allowed to do the the bristol bookfair - the morning fucking star. Odd that i wasn't allowed to do an IWCA stall a few years ago as the bookfair is for 'explicitly non-electoral anarchists' - now fascist sympathising, holocaust deniers supporters, electoral fetishising tankie pricks are fine - up the PKK, must get my new apo tattoo done asap:

View attachment 134236
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A post incidently you liked:confused:
 
LynnDoyleCooper said:
Yeah, OK, back to the topic, I agree, I don't think this thread about the Bookfair should become a thread about all issues trans related, apologies if I in part dragged it that way.

So, I'm gutted and angry about the Bookfair, but I don't actually see anything that can be put in place by the Bookfair organizers to solve the problems though, I think it's something that's going to have to be dealt with by the wider movement. And until that gets done I don't think a Bookfair will happen without massive conflict.
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Yep this really, and possibly not just on this particular battlefront either.
 
Might work if there was another trans rights, gra, gender related thread. May we go the way of the previous one of course, but worth a try.

This one could discuss movement responses specifically, maybe even starting with the blog Sea Star posted. It's not really up to this thread to determine how/whether there can be another London Bookfair, but there are plenty of issues about the politics of class and the politics of identity, relating to events like the bookfair but more generally.
 
Sea Star said:
why would I want to do that? :confused:
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Because YOU are the one who wants to continue discussing trans issues, and this isn't the thread for it, so I suggest you start your own thread, with whatever title and OP you choose, and then set the tone in promoting a respectful discussion to explore whatever issues you and other want to discuss, and leave this thread for whoever (including you obviously) wants to discuss the Anarchist Bookfair and directly related issues.
 
andysays said:
Because YOU are the one who wants to continue discussing trans issues, and this isn't the thread for it, so I suggest you start your own thread, with whatever title and OP you choose, and then set the tone in promoting a respectful discussion to explore whatever issues you and other want to discuss, and leave this thread for whoever (including you obviously) wants to discuss the Anarchist Bookfair and directly related issues.
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I really don't want to start anything - I was made ill over that last thread that was binned. But if people are going to post shit then I reserve the right to counter their shit.

I didn't start talking about trans on this thread. I am far from the only person talking about trans issues - in fact this thread went for pages on trans issues before I decided to come back - and now suddenly it's all about me. No, I'd much rather be talking about something else.
 
Incidentally, if you think about this whole debate - on urban and beyond - being (re)ignited by the speaker's corner spat, we've at least now had a reminder that people don't need to behave in that way, with the piece sea star posted up. Dragging the whole debate onto that (Janine Booth's) ground seems entirely positive. I don't happen to agree with her about 'simple self identification', but that's not the point to me. Her approach is a left approach.

Admittedly, given that I'm currently, ahem, 'working', I haven't actually read it all. :oops:
 
Wilf said:
Incidentally, if you think about this whole debate - on urban and beyond - being (re)ignited by the speaker's corner spat, we've at least now had a reminder that people don't need to behave in that way, with the piece sea star posted up. Dragging the whole debate onto that (Janine Booth's) ground seems entirely positive. I don't happen to agree with her about 'simple self identification', but that's not the point to me. Her approach is a left approach.

Admittedly, given that I'm currently, ahem, 'working', I haven't actually read it all. :oops:
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you do know it's an awl discussion paper don't you?
 
Like this one.
I stand by Corbyn, along with the millions relying on him


I am going to be frank without demeaning the seriousness of anti-semitism and tell them this: when you are homeless and your bed is a piece of cardboard, rows about alleged anti-semitism are not on your list of priorities for the day and night ahead. Staying alive, being warm, having food is.

When your family are housed in a one-room bed and breakfast and your children have nowhere to play, nowhere to do homework, nowhere to bring friends back to, anti-semitism accusations don’t figure much in your daily list of getting by.

When you are a carer on £64 per week, living a humdrum, relentless everyday routine of caring for a disabled person, attending to their needs and ignoring your own, a break and a holiday is more pressing than what people thought of a mural back in 2012.

The MPs denouncing Corbyn have lost sight of the enemy — which is Toryism.

When you earn over £74,000 per year, you have ample room for lofty middle-class intellectual chats and rows over socialism.

You can take time over a glass of House of Commons heavily discounted glass of claret to talk about centrists, the left, the Russians, anti-semitism, world hunger to your heart’s content.
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Specifically implying antisemitism is unimportant and is a concern of the rich and intellectual powerful elites only. Implying only rich people have a reason to care about it. That if you care or have a reason to care you can't be poor, can't be homeless etc, that you wouldn't care about the two simultaneously. Now I know I can be over sensitive about this issue but I found that article disgusting.
 
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frogwoman said:
Like this one.
I stand by Corbyn, along with the millions relying on him




Specifically implying antisemitism is unimportant and is a concern of the rich and intellectual powerful elites only. Implying only rich people have a reason to care about it. That if you care or have a reason to care you can't be poor, can't be homeless etc. Now I might be over sensitive but I found that article disgusting.
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The enemy is not toryism. It is the whole rotten edifice of power. And the rest of the article's disgusting too.
 
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