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[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

I’m not sure how people can be ‘wrong’ about misgivings. It’s something that needs to be addressed rather than dismissed.
if someone has read some shit on the internet about, say, jews controlling everything, or that trans people are going to rape them in a toilet, then they can definitely be wrong. im not saying that there isnt genuine things that need to be addressed, but my whole point is how this is being used by the far right. it seems to me that you're misunderstanding me deliberately.
sorry.
 
I do understand the difference yeah.
It was LynnDoyleCooper 's bit i was thinking of, this bit about how maybe if you find yourself isolated on this then you should change your point of view:

That sort of thing is definitely enough to make people stop talking about a subject, in order not to ruin friendships etc, but not to change their view really in any meaningful way, imo.
and maybe you should change your view if you find yourself isolated on an issue and among other people running with the issue are those you despise.
 
and maybe you should change your view if you find yourself isolated on an issue and among other people running with the issue are those you despise.
Changing your view usually happens by talking / getting new information, not just by deciding to get on the right side of whatever.
 
Changing your view usually happens by talking / getting new information, not just by deciding to get on the right side of whatever.
yea i dont think that's quite what he said, he means rethinking the position, not necessarily changing it. rethinking would be thinking about it in terms of new information and experiences.
 
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Changing your view usually happens by talking / getting new information, not just by deciding to get on the right side of whatever.
you do know what maybe means, right? after all you used the word yourself. perhaps you should change your views if the people running with your pov are among those you despise and you find yourself isolated on an issue. perhaps. not you should.
 
if someone has read some shit on the internet about, say, jews controlling everything, or that trans people are going to rape them in a toilet, then they can definitely be wrong. im not saying that there isnt genuine things that need to be addressed, but my whole point is how this is being used by the far right. it seems to me that you're misunderstanding me deliberately.
sorry.

I’m not misunderstanding you. You’re positioning yourself as anything other than your view is bigoted (and comparing it to antisemitism etc to make the point). Not much room to manoeuvre there, is there?
 
ffs it is about who is organising these talks and who is using them as a cover. I think if we're going to be discussing 'trans issues' we need to discuss this as well don't we rather than just let it go unchallenged?
 
I do understand the difference yeah.
It was LynnDoyleCooper 's bit i was thinking of, this bit about how maybe if you find yourself isolated on this then you should change your point of view:

That sort of thing is definitely enough to make people stop talking about a subject, in order not to ruin friendships etc, but not to change their view really in any meaningful way, imo.

No, I said it should be cause to have a pretty serious think about one's position if one finds oneself on the opposite side to many/most of the people you share the rest of your politics with.
 
I’m not misunderstanding you. You’re positioning yourself as anything other than your view is bigoted (and comparing it to antisemitism etc to make the point). Not much room to manoeuvre there, is there?
You're right, there's nothing that can be compared to antisemitism in the idea that a small group of people are secretly influencing 'big pharma' and the media in order to put across their agenda, or that the said group of people are extremely privileged (and trying to oppress everyone else) and that we shouldnt be worried about anything they say given that they only represent about 1% of the population. Don't know where i got the idea where there was a resemblance. The fact that anti-trans articles and antisemitic bullshit have appeared side by side in outlets like the Morning Star have been another complete coincidence too. Silly me.
 
Yeah, one of the things that's made me despair was hearing people I know start defending the debates around the GRA on free speech grounds, and then one second later defend the Vanessa Beeley talks about Syria on the same grounds.
 
You're right, there's nothing that can be compared to antisemitism in the idea that a small group of people are secretly influencing 'big pharma' and the media in order to put across their agenda, or that the said group of people are extremely privileged (and trying to oppress everyone else) and that we shouldnt be worried about anything they say given that they only represent about 1% of the population. Don't know where i got the idea where there was a resemblance. The fact that anti-trans articles and antisemitic bullshit have appeared side by side in outlets like the Morning Star have been another complete coincidence too. Silly me.

There’s also the kind of ‘anti-semitism’ where any criticism of Israel is regarded as such. No room for dissenting voices just a polarisation.
 
Ok, you have posted ONE video, so are there any other examples of it being on the other side of the argument? Is there a concerted campaign by the far right to stir up hate against feminists? A lot of the time feminists are being ridiculed by the fash by believing in loads of different genders etc which is the same thing trans people are attacked for.
Loads of different genders? Please explain?
 
Maybe you have to be involved in the day to day to see this. But it culminated in a hash tag #TSRaincrew on Twitter followed by a letter in the Guardian signed by a very small number of trans people saying that the proposed changes for the GRA will end up hurting transsexuals. It seems to be an attempt to split the trans community. Trouble is the TERFs who have been appearing on platforms with some of these trans women have been seen to be expressing how much contempt they have even for these "good" trans women with their GRS and their GRCs- still contemptible in the eyes of TERFs - so perhaps it won't go anywhere.
Why are you content to discuss issues on this thread about the Anarchist Bookfair given you campaigned to have the thread about trans politics (now locked) closed?
 
You're right, there's nothing that can be compared to antisemitism in the idea that a small group of people are secretly influencing 'big pharma' and the media in order to put across their agenda, or that the said group of people are extremely privileged (and trying to oppress everyone else) and that we shouldnt be worried about anything they say given that they only represent about 1% of the population. Don't know where i got the idea where there was a resemblance. The fact that anti-trans articles and antisemitic bullshit have appeared side by side in outlets like the Morning Star have been another complete coincidence too. Silly me.
Morning Star running anti semetic articles? Can you link to one please?
 
Why are you content to discuss issues on this thread about the Anarchist Bookfair given you campaigned to have the thread about trans politics (now locked) closed?
Given you are I am going to approach the mods asking for that thread to be unlocked and hope this one will be more bookfair related.
 
Tbf, I used to buy the Morning Star but what with the pro-Beeley pieces and Yardley for fucks sake amongst other reasons I gave up on it. Shame, because I seem to remember the reporting on Lucy Meadows death by one of their journos being pretty decent at the time.
 
Tbf, I used to buy the Morning Star but what with the pro-Beeley pieces and Yardley for fucks sake amongst other reasons I gave up on it. Shame, because I seem to remember the reporting on Lucy Meadows death by one of their journos being pretty decent at the time.
Any anti semetic article links then?
 
The Assad analogy isn't a bad one actually.

If you're 'on the left' and you have a position where you're defending Assad, or even 'just being critical' of the news coming out of Syria, and you look around and those with the same position of you are a nasty fucked up bunch of anti-semites, mad Stalinists, and dickhead conspiracy theorists, it's time to have a think about your position.
 
I wasn't declaring there was/wasn't tbf, not sure I can be arsed to look through the website to remember/find any!
I'm not interested in a Morning Star is going down the pan discussion but am very interested in frogwoman's assertion that it ran anti semetic articles. I haven't read The M Star for years but still would be surprised and a bit shocked if the assertion is true.
 
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