London Anarchist Bookfair 2023/24

[cesare]

As I say, if you have a reason to find out it's not hard to. But if you think I'm going to do that on a fully open public forum you can complain in vain I'm afraid.

Then why post it? You just want people to take it as read, yeah?

 

[Serge Forward]

Actually yeah, I’ve deleted that now.

It still comes up in a couple of quoted replies though.
andysays and danny la rouge

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Bear with me, I don't understand the worm ouroborous image. Is there a myth about that?

It’s a metaphor for self destructive behaviour, I don’t know much about the history of it.

 

[Rob Ray]

Then why post it? You just want people to take it as read, yeah?

I've said why. If you don't like the answer that's up to you, complaining won't get you any extras.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

It still comes up in a couple of quoted replies though.

It would be good if andysays and TopCat and others could edit their posts.

 

[cesare]

I've said why. If you don't like the answer that's up to you, complaining won't get you any extras.

Its bad enough that everyone has to delete/edit posts that this person is being called out as a rapist, but you're setting out your stall that this person isn't and pointing to 2 different orgs that you say have investigated. I think your response is as ill-advised as the original denouncement.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Its bad enough that everyone has to delete/edit posts that this person is being called out as a rapist, but you're setting out your stall that this person isn't and pointing to 2 different orgs that you say have investigated. I think your response is as ill-advised as the original denouncement.

I don't think Rob is saying for certain that he knows whether that person is a rapist or not.

I doubt he is making up the fact that two orgs have looked into it though, as presumably that can be checked.

ETA: He's also not commented on the quality of the org's internal processes to deal with this sort of thing.

 

[cesare]

It’s a metaphor for self destructive behaviour, I don’t know much about the history of it.

Thanks for the answer. I'm very familiar with the Eddison book but before today had never heard it associated with self destruction.

 

[Lurdan]

Rhyddical has responded to @TransActionBloc on his x-twitter account Rhyddical. (With an @ in front).

(I'm not going to post the text of it since I don't believe this is the appropriate forum to host a discussion of this matter).

 

[cesare]

I don't think Rob is saying for certain that he knows whether that person is a rapist or not.

I doubt he is making up the fact that two orgs have looked into it though, as presumably that can be checked.

ETA: He's also not commented on the quality of the org's internal processes to deal with this sort of thing.

That wasn't my point though tbf. He was asserting previous investigations and all I did was ask when the IWW did theirs.

 

[Rob Ray]

That wasn't my point though tbf. He was asserting previous investigations and all I did was ask when the IWW did theirs.

My point is that if you need further details you can ask somewhere other than a public forum where it's not just you looking on with interest but every rubbernecker in town. Are you being deliberately thick about this?

 

[cesare]

My point is that if you need further details you can ask somewhere other than a public forum where it's not just you looking on with interest but every rubbernecker in town. Are you being deliberately thick about this?

I think that you are perhaps being thick in terms of people challenging Your Authoriteh in terms of saying it was investigated and that's an end to it. Who the fuck are you to decide that? And in any event, my question was when the IWW investigated because if it was eg 20 years ago people can rape after that point.

In any event I'm fully aware that there are fucking clown car denunciations on the internet. But why have you decided to get involved in this, really wtf

 

[Rob Ray]

You're not challenging anything, you're asking me to pass on additional details I've said I don't think should be on a public forum and I'm saying no. Throwing this little tantrum on here rather than eg. contacting me (or any one of the many people who know more than I do) privately and explaining why you need to know rather confirms my reasoning afaic.

 

[andysays]

It would be good if andysays and TopCat and others could edit their posts.

I've now deleted mine.

 

[TopCat]

It would be good if andysays and TopCat and others could edit their posts.

Summarise why?

 

[Rob Ray]

Because it's an unevidenced assertion against a named person of a serious crime, which editor's repeatedly asked us not to do (and in fact pinned it prominently in the forum)? That's not one which requires you to take my word for anything.

 

[TopCat]

When I hear of accountability processes by anarchist groups I generally despair.

 

[Rob Ray]

Seems unfair to lay that on just anarchists tbh.

 

[The39thStep]

When I hear of accountability processes by anarchist groups I generally despair.

Clip board people

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Summarise why?

What Rob said and also because I feel shitty having started this off here on a public forum.

Like, we all know what’s being discussed now I think. Little point leaving a permanent record of it here that could get U75 in trouble.

Thanks to people who’ve helped already.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Should I delete my post, edit it afterwards, or not post it in the first place? Is it worth starting a poll?

 

[8ball]

They're saying it was known for at least a decade in some circles which (if true) begs the question of why on earth it's only being made known more widely now.

Does it?

 

[chilango]

He

missed his stall but a pal sent me a tweet of his and his banner had some boasting about him being the strictest teacher in his school so not sure he can complain about ppl thinking he's a cop.

He talks about it in his book.

Tried playing the "strictest teacher" schtick in an attempt to highlight the arbitrary nature of school rules.

It went about as well as you'd expect. Probably worse.

As an "anarchist, atheist, punk rock teacher" of 20+ years I guess It's easy/tempting to point out the flaws in his tale, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

 

[Wilf]

Does it?

I've no idea who this is about and don't have twitter so I can't go tracking it down, even if I wanted to. However, this latest airing of the story probably at least puts people on their guard who might be working with this person (rightly or wrongly). Beyond that, there's probably not much point discussing it any further on here.

 

[8ball]

I've no idea who this is about and don't have twitter so I can't go tracking it down, even if I wanted to. However, this latest airing of the story probably at least puts people on their guard who might be working with this person (rightly or wrongly). Beyond that, there's probably not much point discussing it any further on here.

Fair enough. Was just wondering whether some silencing due to being poised to expose the inner workings of the Deep State was happening.

 

[The39thStep]

Fair enough. Was just wondering whether some silencing due to being poised to expose the inner workings of the Deep State was happening.

Think they are still in battle with the baby farming in Hawaii.

 

[Santino]

Fair enough. Was just wondering whether some silencing due to being poised to expose the inner workings of the Deep State was happening.

Are allegations of rape are only ever hushed up or downplayed by nefarious governments? Can you think of any other recent circumstances when sexual abuse might have been covered up or ignored or inadequately investigated? Anything in recent history at all?

 

[Wilf]

Are allegations of rape are only ever hushed up or downplayed by nefarious governments? Can you think of any other recent circumstances when sexual abuse might have been covered up or ignored or inadequately investigated? Anything in recent history at all?

This. I think it's one thing for libertarian organisations to try and 'police' themselves when it comes to various issues that may or may not be criminal. But it's also problematic in all sorts of ways, particularly when it comes to sexual offences and rape. Yes, organisations and members should act and should work out ways to protect themselves and members (plus other people in the movement). And that might mean sharing warnings. But the idea that an organisation of the left can declare someone innocent of such crimes is farcical.

Just talking generally I might add. I do now know who this is about, but ain't talking about the accusations against them.

 

[PTK]

This. I think it's one thing for libertarian organisations to try and 'police' themselves when it comes to various issues that may or may not be criminal. But it's also problematic in all sorts of ways, particularly when it comes to sexual offences and rape. Yes, organisations and members should act and should work out ways to protect themselves and members (plus other people in the movement. And that might mean sharing warnings. But the idea that an organisation of the left can declare someone innocent of such crimes is farcical.

Just talking generally I might add. I do now know who this is about, but ain't talking about the accusations against them.

It is ten years since the SWP attempted to deal with an allegation of rape internally.
That did not turn out well.

 

[Wilf]

It is ten years since the SWP attempted to deal with an allegation of rape internally.
That did not turn out well.

Yep.