London Anarchist Bookfair 2023/24

[tim]

it had been brewing for a while - it came together after cass

California dreaming?

 

[klang]

California dreaming?

56b is John Phillips?

 

[hitmouse]

please see our statement on getting along as anarchists in 2024. its about the bookfair, trans stuff, but also the wider issue

(no title)

londonbookfairopenletteropenletter.wordpress.com

Fwiw, I thought it was obvious that the choice of name was intended as a dig at another group rather than actually trying to pass themselves off as them, but on the actual content of the statement itself, pretty funny that one of their major demands is asking anarchists for "A commitment to comply with the law". Obviously no-one, least of all anarchists, thinks that the actual moral/ethical questions around this stuff depend on how courts interpret the Equality Act, so I dunno what that bit is doing in there.
Also:
"Not to formulate demands or principles using words in a way that renders them unintelligible. In order to evaluate truth claims, words must be analysable, and their meanings clear." - this is itself, if not quite an un-analysable claim with an unclear meaning, then at least something close to it. Everyone, even your worst enemy, can agree in principle with the idea that "demands and principles should be comprehensible rather than incomprehensible", so that statement is so vague as to be effectively meaningless, the only way the reader would be able to evaluate the argument you're making here would be if you provided examples of the unclear, unintelligible writing you're objecting to.

 

[andysays]

sorry, who are we misrepresenting?

I for one am sure you're not misrepresenting anyone and the fact that the name you've chosen is very similar to the 56a Infoshop is just one of those unfortunate coincidences.

Maybe you even live in the flat upstairs to them, hence the similar address...

 

[Dystopiary]

Still, this has reminded me to pop into 56a when I'm in the area, especially now they've made it very clear that they're trans and queer inclusive, and that they condemn that transphobic statement put out by whoever that person is.

 

[CooltanRefugee]

it had been brewing for a while - it came together after cass

What are you actually trying to do here? What do you hope to achieve?

 

[56b]

What are you actually trying to do here? What do you hope to achieve?

it's a contribution to discussion
we're suggesting people dont lose their shit when others have a different view. its not a big deal.

anarchism works better if people aren't expected all to take one pov, like a loyalty oath

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Hence the completely unproblematic contributions by comrades like Hakim Bey and Green Anarchist. Transphobes, primitivists and nonces, united under the circled A.

 

[danny la rouge]

it's a contribution to discussion

It’s not clear what you’re discussing. For example, I have no idea what you mean by the opening statement: “The Cass report has afforded new perspective on the mandates of solidarity and anarchist organising”.

I mean, I don’t think it has. I’m disinclined to think anyone who is less than sold on solidarity is an anarchist at all.

 

[muscovyduck]

I wish I understood any of this

 

[Rob Ray]

it's a contribution to discussion
we're suggesting people dont lose their shit when others have a different view. its not a big deal.

anarchism works better if people aren't expected all to take one pov, like a loyalty oath

Yes voicing your devastating comeback remarks for a seven-year-old argument while leaning entirely on a highly contentious official report which had lots of flaws in the first place and was wildly misused by bigots everywhere as justification is totally not "losing your shit" behaviour.

 

[Wilf]

it's a contribution to discussion
we're suggesting people dont lose their shit when others have a different view. its not a big deal.

anarchism works better if people aren't expected all to take one pov, like a loyalty oath

If you do want some feedback on the statement, which I've just read:

I post this as someone who had a fair bit of sympathy with the 2017 organisers and the position they ended up in. I also think the movement needs to be able to have conversations about issues that it finds hard to 'solve' and yes, I'm against 'end of conversation positions'. We should be able to act like comrades. That's not me taking a position on self ID, puberty blockers or any of the substance, I just wish this had been a better conversation, across the left more generally and anarchism specifically.

Yet... I'm not sure a statement rehashing 2017 is a helpful route into a better relationship. Nor is setting out the flaws of the other side's positions. And frankly, the Cass stuff and appeal to science is..... odd. TBH, the statement felt more of a way of carrying on the battle and claiming moral highground than moving things on.

 

[Rob Ray]

Maybe I should write an anonymous blog post on how the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee's report on the impact of noise on public health really, if you think about it, should re-open the debate on whether that speaker getting kicked through in Wetherspoons at an after-Bookfair drinking session was morally sound.

 

[Wilf]

Maybe I should write an anonymous blog post on how the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee's report on the impact of noise on public health really, if you think about it, should re-open the debate on whether that speaker getting kicked through in Wetherspoons at an after-Bookfair drinking session was morally sound.

Ah, the Battle of the Coronet, halcyon days, happy days, when we all one movement, no splits! We could all get together and chuckle about heads in fridges...

 

[Rob Ray]

I may not be able to remember to turn the oven off but I'm well equipped for bookfair-related deep cuts (post-2003 at least)

 

[56b]

I post this as someone who had a fair bit of sympathy with the 2017 organisers and the position they ended up in. I also think the movement needs to be able to have conversations about issues that it finds hard to 'solve' and yes, I'm against 'end of conversation positions'. We should be able to act like comrades. That's not me taking a position on self ID, puberty blockers or any of the substance, I just wish this had been a better conversation, across the left more generally and anarchism specifically.

Yet... I'm not sure a statement rehashing 2017 is a helpful route into a better relationship. Nor is setting out the flaws of the other side's positions. And frankly, the Cass stuff and appeal to science is..... odd. TBH, the statement felt more of a way of carrying on the battle and claiming moral highground than moving things on.

"any of the substance"

we dont all agree on those things either.

"a helpful route into a better relationship .... setting out the flaws of the other side's positions"

we know people are still discussing. things are changing. but some spaces wont be saved

those who went along with excluding others for honest views. who tried to stay on the right side of people doing that. joined in denouncing. this is what they let in.

"so far to my knowledge they have never said the words...."
"It's no good to simply say.... What is your strategy for... ?"
"dogwhistles"
"Nor has there been an apology!"
"They can come back once they fucking groveled and begged"
"The bare minimum they can do is dissolve"

and "We apologise that we got this wrong. We welcome the feedback"

what happened to the bookfair is a warning

 

[cesare]

It's a sub-prime transphobic anonymous troll.

 

[chilango]

I wish I understood any of this

I wish I didn't.

 

[Wilf]

"any of the substance"

we dont all agree on those things either.

"a helpful route into a better relationship .... setting out the flaws of the other side's positions"

we know people are still discussing. things are changing. but some spaces wont be saved

those who went along with excluding others for honest views. who tried to stay on the right side of people doing that. joined in denouncing. this is what they let in.

"so far to my knowledge they have never said the words...."
"It's no good to simply say.... What is your strategy for... ?"
"dogwhistles"
"Nor has there been an apology!"
"They can come back once they fucking groveled and begged"
"The bare minimum they can do is dissolve"

and "We apologise that we got this wrong. We welcome the feedback"

what happened to the bookfair is a warning

As a disclaimer, I'd just say I have no inside info on any of this and am not in any of the groups affected (or indeed any anarchist group at the moment). What I know about any of this is predominantly from this and other urban threads. Anyway... a bit of me agrees with you about the way lines have been drawn and the rest and as I've said I have a bit of sympathy with the old collective and the way things played out. Also, yes, the embarrassing way the ACG were apparently refused a stall - I say apparently because I'm not sure anything was ever properly communicated to them. But are you trying to mend things, improve things? I'm not convinced.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I wish I understood any of this

Don't make wishes like that

 

[smokedout]

Fwiw, I thought it was obvious that the choice of name was intended as a dig at another group rather than actually trying to pass themselves off as them, but on the actual content of the statement itself, pretty funny that one of their major demands is asking anarchists for "A commitment to comply with the law". Obviously no-one, least of all anarchists, thinks that the actual moral/ethical questions around this stuff depend on how courts interpret the Equality Act, so I dunno what that bit is doing in there.

I know we all fell out about this but now the Government has commissioned a report saying we won so it's over now and you have to like us again because it says so in the Equality Act. We are anti-authoritarians btw.

Top work lads.