Ok. So one side of the argument is being latched onto by the far right and we must be careful etc, but it’s also on the other side of the argument and so what.
[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)
- Thread starter Kate Sharpley
- Start date
Ok. So one side of the argument is being latched onto by the far right and we must be careful etc, but it’s also on the other side of the argument and so what.
I was countering a particular point being made.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Ok, you have posted ONE video, so are there any other examples of it being on the other side of the argument? Is there a concerted campaign by the far right to stir up hate against feminists? A lot of the time feminists are being ridiculed by the fash by believing in loads of different genders etc which is the same thing trans people are attacked for.
The ‘alt’ right (who Tommy appeals to) have that whole men’s rights anti-feminist stuff going on yes.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Have you seen some of the speakers invited to the anti trans meetings for example? One was a guy who said heroin addicts shouldn't be given methadone because they needed to take 'personal responsibility'. If fash are infiltrating the trans side yes thats a problem but it doesn't disprove anything i said.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
The alt right also ridicule 'social justice warriors' who they conflate with feminists, social justice warriors of course having millions of different genders, etc
I’m not disagreeing with what you’ve said, just the way you’re trying to discredit everyone by association.
ska invita
back on the other side
Robinson is also using it for Freedom of Speach cover, and some general queerwashing
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
It's not a 'smear' of 'guilt by association' though is it, when these people are actually connected to each other and actually associated with each other. These people are invited to speak at these events, they routinely repost each others stuff, they use hate language such as 'parasites' and so on.
bimble
floofy
There's got to be an element where its gender noncomformity that really distresses the 'right', whereas people becoming the other gender keeps things more or less stable, means you don't have to deal with "effeminate men" etc. For instance Iran being apparently way more advanced on trans right than america for instance (whilst homosexuality is punishable by death)is a bit of a weird one unless you see it in that sort of way?
I mean people who are making similar arguments and NOT associating with those people. That bit is being ignored in favour of hoisting the loons up as the reason why the argument is wrong.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
There is no one "other side". Trans people literally exist across the political spectrum just like cis people, just like gay cis people. There are trans people who support the alt right. What those people say does not impinge one bit on trans people who are on the left, or elsewhere on the political spectrum, including many who are not political at all but still support human rights for trans people.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Look on the iran thing, Ive spent most of the year in Russia.
I can assure you the authorities here don't like trans people, while transition is legal everything is set up to make it practically impossible. And there is no evidence their discrimination against trans people has made it safer for 'women and girls' or anyone else. It is part of a general homophobic and misogynistic campaign. I agree that this stuff can work differently in places like Iran, I also don't discount the fact people could feel pressured into transitioning or feel like it would resolve their conflicts about sexuality etc. But very frequently these allies of the radfems have absolutely nothing to do with wanting to help gay people be themselves and end discrimination, in fact the opposite.
In fact this stuff is being used as an excuse to throw eg butch women out of women's bathrooms etc.
I can assure you the authorities here don't like trans people, while transition is legal everything is set up to make it practically impossible. And there is no evidence their discrimination against trans people has made it safer for 'women and girls' or anyone else. It is part of a general homophobic and misogynistic campaign. I agree that this stuff can work differently in places like Iran, I also don't discount the fact people could feel pressured into transitioning or feel like it would resolve their conflicts about sexuality etc. But very frequently these allies of the radfems have absolutely nothing to do with wanting to help gay people be themselves and end discrimination, in fact the opposite.
In fact this stuff is being used as an excuse to throw eg butch women out of women's bathrooms etc.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
What happens in Iran is not anything that trans people want or campaign for. There they conflate sexuality with gender in order to erase gay people. Not a single trans person would want this whatever their politics, because we all know just how damaging it is to be forced to live as a gender we are not.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
My point is these people are the mainstream of these campaigns.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I agree.
It was previously argued that they are a small but vocal group.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Was it? By who?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
No what was this?
On the now locked thread.
bimble
floofy
You missed nothing tbh.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Maybe you have to be involved in the day to day to see this. But it culminated in a hash tag #TSRaincrew on Twitter followed by a letter in the Guardian signed by a very small number of trans people saying that the proposed changes for the GRA will end up hurting transsexuals. It seems to be an attempt to split the trans community. Trouble is the TERFs who have been appearing on platforms with some of these trans women have been seen to be expressing how much contempt they have even for these "good" trans women with their GRS and their GRCs- still contemptible in the eyes of TERFs - so perhaps it won't go anywhere.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I do wish people would stop using TERF though, even if it's just for clarity. Who organized the talk they mentioned here, anything more specific than TERFs?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
people should use the official designator - TAFKNT (pronounced taffkent): the activists formerly known as terfs.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
They are small. They are also the mainstream of the campaign.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
It was this (link to a very nasty site broken)
https:// gendertrenderdotwordpressdotcom/2018/01/12/anti-capitalist-queers-fail-to-shut-down-glasgow-womens-discussion-on-the-gender-recognition-act/
They don’t represent everyone with misgivings about the GRA whichever way you paint it.
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