Russell Brand on Revolution
- Thread starter Jean-Luc
- Start date
Idaho
blah blah blah
Isn't that the goal of the p&p board?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Marvelous.
Idaho
blah blah blah
Exhibit A.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
And there's the crappy thing - we were "hearing a bit more from them", before RB came on the scene. The E15 women pulled off a stunning bit of activism, an occupation that drew national attention, infuriated their local authority and highlighted the fact that the same local authority had an estate-full of homes that could have been used as short-term accommodation. It wasn't until they ended the occupation that Brand really got involved.
As for New Era, Private Eye have been building that story, with the help of local papers and the occasional national press story, for a year or more.
In my (jaundiced) opinion, a lot of the people metaphorically patting RB on the back and saying "you da man!" are those who like the idea of shit being done for them, and they like the sense of immediacy that RB gives to the causes he gets involved in. Anyone who's done actual activism, though, knows full well that activism takes long, slow laborious organisation, and that it needs people to be involved all the way through, not just to come along when the hard organisational work is done, and associate yourself with the cause.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Don't say "people", when you mean you, there's a good chap. You don't speak for me.
Idaho
blah blah blah
Happy to exclude you old bean. Interested to see any evidence of political activism by even a large minority.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I think that the problem and the solution aren't psychological, they're structural. We exist within a polity where we have no power. We have a voting franchise that merely allows us to vote for (or not) one or another of a group of political place-men (or women) once in a while, but we have no mechanism by which we can actually ensure our "elected representatives" represent US, rather than their party's lines.
Popularism generally buys nothing but another arsehole hanging over the parapet, shitting on the masses below.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
This is an anecdote from another message board
I live in E15, so I was automatically drawn into the campaign to get homes for the E15 mums kicked out of their hostel. When they occupied the empty houses in the Carpenters Estate, Russell came along with his camera crew. But then he kept coming back. He painted walls, he sanded floorboards, he bought food. And whenever the campaign became too much about him, he withdrew.
Not to say this is conclusive, but I wonder how many people assumed differently with no evidence, and why.
I live in E15, so I was automatically drawn into the campaign to get homes for the E15 mums kicked out of their hostel. When they occupied the empty houses in the Carpenters Estate, Russell came along with his camera crew. But then he kept coming back. He painted walls, he sanded floorboards, he bought food. And whenever the campaign became too much about him, he withdrew.
Not to say this is conclusive, but I wonder how many people assumed differently with no evidence, and why.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Excellent. Names not down - monkey man says you're not coming in. He's got a list. He drew it up himself.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Four words there that make it look like opportunism - "with his camera crew". So, whatever he did after the original visit, the original intent was "lets use these peoples' story" (my emphasis).
Nancy_Winks
Well-Known Member
Why so cynical VP? The guy is essentially saying out loud to a wide audience the same things as been said on this site for over a decade. He's pushing the very causes, like E15 mums, that the left want to see pushed to the top of the agenda. I just don't understand why he's being attacked for it. Well I do it's cos he's now rich so he's not 'one of us' but I really don't get it. It's like you'd rather have the feeling of superiority of putting him down than actually cheering him on for saying the very things you believe
andysays
Love and solidarity
You might be right in your assessment of his intent, or he might have thought "lets use my celebrity and the fact that I can bring along a camera crew etc to give these people's cause more publicity"
I don't think we can necessarily attribute a particular intent to him, but I also think that attempting to focus on that aspect misses the wider point that whatever his intent, the actual result is that the E15 were already getting some publicity which focussed on them, and now the focus is on RB's involvement, and similarly with the New Era campaign.
This bit of taffboy gwyrdd's quote is interesting
And whenever the campaign became too much about him, he withdrew.
I'm a little skeptical about this, but if RB is reconsidering his approach (and I haven't seen any sign of this myself) then fair play to him on a personal level - he is as human and fallible as anyone, and he may recognise that he is becoming the story rather than the causes and step away, assuming his ego allows him to...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Why so cynical VP? The guy is essentially saying out loud to a wide audience the same things as been said on this site for over a decade. He's pushing the very causes, like E15 mums, that the left want to see pushed to the top of the agenda. I just don't understand why he's being attacked for it. Well I do it's cos he's now rich so he's not 'one of us' but I really don't get it. It's like you'd rather have the feeling of superiority of putting him down than actually cheering him on for saying the very things you believe
It's not about "he's not one of us", or about feeling superior, or about wealth. What it's about is causes and how they're affected.
Let's build a hypothetical scenario: Your local council decides to place Compulsory Purchase Orders (as usual, about 10-20% below the actual market price, so you'll be fucked over if you want to buy somewhere else in the same area) on your street because they want to demolish to make way for - I dunno - a municipal sewage works, and you band together with other people on your street (and neighbouring streets) to try and stop this. You do this for several months, building up your network of contacts, getting the local media on-side with stories in papers and on your local TV and radio news, and that's what your cause is about.
If someone like Russell Brand comes along and joins in, that helps the cause in a transient way - you get some publicity in the national media - but the celeb also brings all their baggage with them - In Bono's case it was his tax hypocrisy, in Brand's it's his addiction to conspiracy theory - and invariably the media will bring that baggage into the story, making the story much more about the celeb than about the cause, and even if it doesn't actively harm your attempt to stop the council CPOing your street, it still shifts the idea in the minds of the people you're trying to reach from "fuck me, the council are acting like complete cuntbuckets! I'm going to write a letter to my local paper, and to my MP" to "Oh, they're okay, they've got that celebrity supporting them now!".
andysays
Love and solidarity
Why so cynical VP? The guy is essentially saying out loud to a wide audience the same things as been said on this site for over a decade. He's pushing the very causes, like E15 mums, that the left want to see pushed to the top of the agenda. I just don't understand why he's being attacked for it. Well I do it's cos he's now rich so he's not 'one of us' but I really don't get it. It's like you'd rather have the feeling of superiority of putting him down than actually cheering him on for saying the very things you believe
I'll try to explain what my criticism of his involvement is (and I'm not attacking him, I'm trying to point out the problems with any celebrity activist involvement, whoever the particular celeb might be and however well intentioned they might be).
One of the important ideas of community organising or whatever you want to call it is that the campaign is driven by the community themselves and that they speak for themselves, rather than their campaign being dominated and driven by outsiders, whether those outsiders are a group like the SWP (other examples are available) or a celeb activist like RB (again, OEAA).
As soon as outsiders get involved enough to influence the direction or the approach of a campaign, the nature of that campaign changes and, in this case particularly, the way that campaign is portrayed in the media and therefore seen by the vast majority of people changes.
In this case, it changes from
"E15 mums fight to re-house themselves in empty flats in their local area",
to "Russell Brand gets involved in campaign of E15 mums".
The details of the campaign and the people directly involved get pushed into the background. In the first one, they are the active creators of their own campaign, their own lives, in the second they are the passive recipients of some celebrity do-gooder's charity.
This is not necessarily RB's intention, or even his fault, but it is a pretty much inevitable consequence of his getting involved, and it is a significant problem which it is right for people to point out, both here and to RB himself.
JHE
.
I don't like Brand. As an actor, he's OK. As a comedian, he's tedious. His joke phone call to Andrew Sachs was nasty, cruel and witless. As a preacher of half-baked radicalism, he's patronising and gives me a slight headache.
But I don't doubt his sincerity at all. Deep down he's an earnest man, which probably makes him thoroughly unsuitable as a comic.
Up to a point, but I think you overstate the problem. The campaigners do not become and, afaik, are not presented as passive or as recipients of charity from Brand.
For the people at the heart of he campaign, the involvement of the celeb like Brand has a good side and a bad side. On the one hand, they want lots of publicity and the celeb wins them that publicity. On the other hand, as you point out, the celeb tends to become the centre of the story.
If at some point the people whose campaign it is think the bad side outweighs the good, they can tell him to bugger off. I think he would if asked. For as long as the good outweighs the bad, they'll continue to welcome him.
But I don't doubt his sincerity at all. Deep down he's an earnest man, which probably makes him thoroughly unsuitable as a comic.
Up to a point, but I think you overstate the problem. The campaigners do not become and, afaik, are not presented as passive or as recipients of charity from Brand.
For the people at the heart of he campaign, the involvement of the celeb like Brand has a good side and a bad side. On the one hand, they want lots of publicity and the celeb wins them that publicity. On the other hand, as you point out, the celeb tends to become the centre of the story.
If at some point the people whose campaign it is think the bad side outweighs the good, they can tell him to bugger off. I think he would if asked. For as long as the good outweighs the bad, they'll continue to welcome him.
Last edited:
Idaho
blah blah blah
Poll tax was one. That was popular and pluralistic, without having a leader. But that was kind of a special circumstance. It was *so* unpopular, affected so many people and was quite a narrow issue to attack.
Russell Brand is no longer interested in self promotion - I think he passionately cares about the causes he believes in, and although he WAS self obsessed in the past (and freely admits that in his book), he has experienced an epiphany in his life and has replaced his addictive tendencies in a really positive way. He explains in detail, that it was the God factor he was looking for when he was an addict, but mistakenly took this for 'oblivion' (isnt that what all addicts are searching for...??). He has gotten a LOT of help to get this far, and more power to him. I firmly believe that he doesn't give a damn about 'Russell, the brand' anymore and is sincere. To cynics, shock horror, that a good looking and charismatic man could dare to change...! I am quite frankly dumbfounded that anyone would regard his activities as suspect.
Last edited:
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
I think I probably agree with you for the first time ever. . . . and I am even agreeing with you over something to do with Russell Brand.
What a funny old world.
Nancy_Winks
Well-Known Member
Thanks for explaining VP and andysays. I do get it, that the celebrity can change the media focus or *become* the focus. Guess it's a trade off and E15 mums thought it worth while. Tbf if I was running a campaign and a celebrity wanted to get involved I'd probably say yes. People are influenced by them after all.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Of course media changes the emphasis in a way that can detract, but thats media being shits, not Brand. He will know all this, the double edged sword aspext of what he is doing. Its not like he's new to the media/politics interface "Nazi boy" was yonks ago, and before he was really"famous "
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Just look at the red-hot-chat on here, the discussions of social housing over the last week.
Diana9
Active Member
The Sun's Attempt To Crush Russell Brand Is Looking A Little Desperate
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/03/russell-brand-the-sun_n_6259906.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
Try not to be distracted. I'm not important. Don't let them distract you. pic.twitter.com/qpf2gGeRCe
— Russell Brand (@rustyrockets) December 2, 2014
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/03/russell-brand-the-sun_n_6259906.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
Try not to be distracted. I'm not important. Don't let them distract you. pic.twitter.com/qpf2gGeRCe
— Russell Brand (@rustyrockets) December 2, 2014
Idaho
blah blah blah
Something constructive?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Great - a media battle. Not a damn thing you have said is about the fights. It's all about russel. It's all about the media fight with brand and how everyone else lines up in that fight. Job done.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What on earth does this mean? Tell me what you - remembering that you're a self appointed bouncer - counts as constructive. In terms of this thread, not being an arrogant cunt and actually reading it and the posts made before you deigned to appear. That would be constructive right now.
Diana9
Active Member
Great, you're doing the very thing you object to -- making Russel the issue. You're letting the media lead you into lambasting him. I haven't seen you write anything about the Revolution, whereas I have.
Similar threads
