Russell Brand on Revolution

[ViolentPanda]

and no one ever mentions the communards massacre either. Just all the guillotined nobles.

People get so overcome by revolutionary romanticism that they forget that the revolution and the class are always betrayed.

 

[ska invita]

i think the thing is, he relates to the celebrity-academic-activist thing as it mirrors his own experience. So graeber is the man right now, 25 years back it may have been negri...and so on. This is not a criticism of him for reading graeber but for his choice to play the game of trying to impress journos, begging them to take him seriously on an intellectual level in effect (seem this many times with people from a w/c background who have read a lot). He -doesn't need to do that. No one does.

i think hes met David Graeber at a couple of things (what we really need is a lefty Heat magazine to keep on top of these things). By his own admission he's too impatient to really read books, especially hard ones

 

[butchersapron]

i think hes met David Graeber at a couple of things (what we really need is a lefty Heat magazine to keep on top of these things). By his own admission he's too impatient to really read books, especially hard ones

Things at which they were the celebs...

 

[ska invita]

Things at which they were the celebs...

well street demos/platforms etc
so yes

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm not 'pining' for anything, but im suprised that the state of society hasnt fuelled more anger - or should i say fury - from musicians who have fire in their belly representing the disenfrancised.... there should have been a load of brilliant, angry bands documenting the state of the times - there hasnt been. Never heard of the ones you mentioned either.

Jarvis Cocker made an excellent point about 10 years ago, as regards the seemingly apolitical stance of many popular musicians, which boiled down to "if you're not hungry, you don't get angry". Given the predominance of "fame school" alumni, manufactured groups and the like that populate the charts, there's little hunger there, so no urge for change from them.
It's a class thing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No brilliant angry bands documenting the times, apart from all these bands you've never heard of.

I think there's a difference in coverage, though. I honestly believe that 30 years ago, politically-"outsider" popular music had more media venues through which to get an airing than it does now. I'm not basing this on any research, just on the fact that there seemed to be more programmers willing to take a chance back then.

 

[ska invita]

I think there's a difference in coverage, though. I honestly believe that 30 years ago, politically-"outsider" popular music had more media venues through which to get an airing than it does now. I'm not basing this on any research, just on the fact that there seemed to be more programmers willing to take a chance back then.

also there were a fair few political Pop tunes - pop acts prepared to say something - i fear its too much to ask for the chucklebrothers to bring it back

 

[smokedout]

I think there's a difference in coverage, though. I honestly believe that 30 years ago, politically-"outsider" popular music had more media venues through which to get an airing than it does now. I'm not basing this on any research, just on the fact that there seemed to be more programmers willing to take a chance back then.

music's over as a dominant cultural force amongst the young, especially guitar music, its much more diverse and plural now, kids are just as into games, youtube, instragram etc. thats why we've got a comedian in the cultural pseudorevolutionary role musos used to fill, Russell Brand is what cheesy wants, updated for the internet.

 

[BigTom]

Also worth considering that 2009-11 was when dubstep went really dark and harsh, with Skrillex and the like, and this is what was being played on the student demos and what a lot of that age group were listening to, and it's not "Political" but it serves the same emotional outlet, there are political reasons why the music went the way it did, why people went for that sound rather than a softer one, like Burial's music.

 

[Pickman's model]

music's over as a dominant cultural force amongst the young, especially guitar music, its much more diverse and plural now, kids are just as into games, youtube, instragram etc. thats why we've got a comedian in the cultural pseudorevolutionary role musos used to fill, Russell Brand is what cheesy wants, updated for the internet.

 

[ViolentPanda]

music's over as a dominant cultural force amongst the young, especially guitar music, its much more diverse and plural now, kids are just as into games, youtube, instragram etc. thats why we've got a comedian in the cultural pseudorevolutionary role musos used to fill, Russell Brand is what cheesy wants, updated for the internet.

We should, however, ask ourselves why the above is the case, as there's an argument to be made that the "diversity" and "pluralism" is to some extent engineered (the old "99 channels, and nothing on" phenomenon) as a method of using "spectacle" to draw peoples' attention away from ideas of dissent.

 

[Pickman's model]

you seem interested in this lying and disenfranchisement but disregard that perhaps the best album about disenfranchisement (if not lying) may be sham69's 'that's life'.

however, it's long been my understanding that it was a musician's role to make music and not their role to relentlessly document the pisstaking etc all around the world, which would in any event get in the way of their making the music they wanted to do in the first place

 

[smokedout]

We should, however, ask ourselves why the above is the case, as there's an argument to be made that the "diversity" and "pluralism" is to some extent engineered (the old "99 channels, and nothing on" phenomenon) as a method of using "spectacle" to draw peoples' attention away from ideas of dissent.

I think partly because you can only get so far with three chords and a drumkit, and the emergence of electronic music, and the possibility of every sound imaginable at your disposal over 20 years ago created the ultimate technological reovlution - theres no new electric guitar, or wall of sound, or breakbeat to be discovered, its all been done.

actually thats not got much to do with what you said, but i think its why music has declined in cultural dominance, it had a built in end date in the form of the chromatic scale.

 

[Pickman's model]

the ultimate technological reovlution

surely that's when one man can take on the world and win.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471780790/ref=nosim/globalguerril-20

 

[smokedout]

also worth remembering that bar a fairly small number of bands. hip hop artists etc, most of the rock and roll revolutioneries were wankers, brand and 4chan are not much different to lennon and alice cooper

 

[smokedout]

surely that's when one man can take on the world and win.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471780790/ref=nosim/globalguerril-20

and yet we lost. turns out guns are better than guitars.

 

[Pickman's model]

and yet we lost. turns out guns are better than guitars.

yeh you don't need to know three chords to play a tune people will listen to

 

[lefteri]

So he signs a book deal and he's Public Enemy 1?

Seriously?

When did I say that, are you for real?

 

[Awesome Wells]

When did I say that, are you for real?

No, i'm a figment of your imagination.

 

[treelover]

We should, however, ask ourselves why the above is the case, as there's an argument to be made that the "diversity" and "pluralism" is to some extent engineered (the old "99 channels, and nothing on" phenomenon) as a method of using "spectacle" to draw peoples' attention away from ideas of dissent.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...side-pay-per-laugh-innovations-silicon-valley
This article touches on that a bit

 

[Pickman's model]

No, i'm a figment of your imagination.

i am not sure anyone can - or would want to - imagine you.

 

[Pickman's model]

When did I say that, are you for real?

careful or he'll wish the cancer on you.

 

[DotCommunist]

would it be fair to compare Brand with that Grillo bloke?

 

[Pickman's model]

would it be fair to compare Brand with that Grillo bloke?

give me an example of the comparison you had in mind. is he fatter, taller, thinner, cleverer, more short-sighted?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

would it be fair to compare Brand with that Grillo bloke?

not really

 

[DotCommunist]

give me an example of the comparison you had in mind. is he fatter, taller, thinner, cleverer, more short-sighted?

I was thinking- popular comedian, political etc

although he seems more popular (politicaly) than brand

I'm fairly ignorant of italian politics which is why I asked if its fair (read useful) to make the comparison

 

[Pickman's model]

I was thinking- popular comedian, political etc

although he seems more popular (politicaly) than brand

I'm fairly ignorant of italian politics which is why I asked if its fair (read useful) to make the comparison

i would lay a bet that grillo eats pizza less frequently than russell brand. despite grillo being italian.

 

[ska invita]

music's over as a dominant cultural force amongst the young, especially guitar music, its much more diverse and plural now, kids are just as into games, youtube, instragram etc. thats why we've got a comedian in the cultural pseudorevolutionary role musos used to fill, Russell Brand is what cheesy wants, updated for the internet.

i kind of agree here, but then again don't - it paints a picture of a de-politicised and apathetic youth...i think what many young people have is good political awareness, lots of healthy skepticism and cynicism, but covered in a blanket of Capitalist Realism, realpolitik, and a lack of faith in the organised left alternatives in the UK - true of adults too. I wouldnt blame instagram for a lack of revolutionary fervour

 

[Pickman's model]

i kind of agree here, but then again don't - it paints a picture of a de-politicised and apathetic youth...i think what many young people have is good political awareness, lots of healthy skepticism and cynicism, but covered in a blanket of Capitalist Realism, realpolitik, and a lack of faith in the organised left alternatives in the UK - true of adults too. I wouldnt blame instagram for a lack of revolutionary fervour

i blame instagram for its lack of revolutionary fervour

 

[Idris2002]

also worth remembering that bar a fairly small number of bands. hip hop artists etc, most of the rock and roll revolutioneries were wankers, brand and 4chan are not much different to lennon and alice cooper

Iggy Pop voted for Reagan.