Rochdale grooming trial: Nine men jailed

[Grandma Death]

The debate should about the nature and extent of economic migrancy from regions of the world entirely incompatible with western culture of the later 20th and 21st century.

This is not a problem suffered by Africans - Muslim or Christian, or East Europeans or, generally speaking, even from elsewhere in Asia. It's a problem imported from regions of the world where females very clearly remain property.

Also, as a general rule, these men aren't even here to settle. They want to minicab long enough to buy a property at home and attract a wife - through her male relatives. They make little investment in this society, save a car and a GPS.

Cock

 

[manny-p]

Also, as a general rule, these men aren't even here to settle. They want to minicab long enough to buy a property at home and attract a wife - through her male relatives. They make little investment in this society, save a car and a GPS.

This is a daft generalisation.

 

[Stoat Boy]

So it's the girls fault ?

Not at all. But its obvious that they were coerced and that this abuse was continued over a period of time. This was not a case of these girls being snatched off the streets and raped but a co-ordinated effort to target them and exploit some pretty shitty life experiences. I aint got a clue what its like to be from or live in the community from which the perps came from. But I do come from something of a similar nature to that which those girls come from and I accept that I would have been dismissive of them if my own children had befriended them. Which makes me have to take some of the guilt on to myself because its like we have abandoned a section of our own class for reasons of personal advancement. And just left them to the kind and caring middle classes who run our social services.

Maybe if we championed the sort of strong family unit that is often quoted to us about communities from Pakistan and Asia a bit more then not so many of these girls would end up in this situation. Instead we just dissmiss them as chavs and white trash and try to forget that they come from the same wider community as many of us.

 

[London_Calling]

Cock

Arse.

 

[Teaboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17993003.

Whilst its not surprising to not find a thread on here about these men being found guilty (there really is a collective streak of cowardice running through U75 when it comes to topics like this)

What like how you shy away from all the threads about catholic priests raping children and the vatican still to this day covering up for it? You fucking hypocritical coward.

 

[Stoat Boy]

What like how you shy away from all the threads about catholic priests raping children and the vatican still to this day covering up for it? You fucking hypocritical coward.

Not at all. I am utterly disgusted by any child abuse and feel that any Priests convicted of such crimes should be jailed for double that of anybody else due to the abuse of trust that has taken place.

But I aint going to play with all the general anti-Christian BS that goes with it.

And lets be honest, if this story had been about Catholic men targetting Muslim girls then you can bet your life that you lot would have been falling over yourselves to start a thread about it.

 

[Grandma Death]

The only responsibility that lies within the muslim community is to turn people like this over to the police if and when they find out.

Whats next-film directors who make violent films are responsible for the actions of a minority? Anders Brevik claims to have trained on Call of Duty-should Activision look deep into their souls too?

 

[manny-p]

The only responsibility that lies within the muslim community is to turn people like this over to the police if and when they find out.

Whats next-film directors who make violent films are responsible for the actions of a minority? Anders Brevik claims to have trained on Call of Duty-should Activision look deep into their souls too?

Again you are using muslim community. It's like saying christian community. Don't make sense. This is mostly guys from Mirpur pakistani descent.

 

[Grandma Death]

Again you are using muslim community. It's like saying christian community. Don't make sense. This is mostly guys from Mirpur pakistani descent.

...and the majority of asians from the Mirpur region in northern towns dont go on to carry out acts of horrific abuse like this.

 

[manny-p]

...and the majority of asians from the Mirpur region in northern towns dont go on to carry out acts of horrific abuse like this.

whats that got to do with your use of 'muslim community'? It's silly.

 

[danny la rouge]

No I am saying that the 'muslim community' does not exist. There are shit loads of different communities that are muslim.

Apart from that your post was bang on.

Of course. But apart from forgetting the plural in my haste to make my point, you agree?

 

[manny-p]

...and the majority of asians from the Mirpur region in northern towns dont go on to carry out acts of horrific abuse like this.

I didn't say that you cunt.

 

[biggus dickus]

Yorkshiremen of all creeds and colours are dodgy rapists

 

[danny la rouge]

There is a racial element

No there isn't.

 

[Grandma Death]

I didn't say that you cunt.

I didnt say you did....you cunt. Two can play that game. Great isnt it.

 

[Lea]

No there isn't.

Then why it that white girls are groomed for abuse by these men and not girls of Pakistani descent?

 

[Roadkill]

Yorkshiremen of all creeds and colours are dodgy rapists

Rochdale is in Lancashire.

 

[Grandma Death]

Then why it that white girls are groomed for abuse by these men and not girls of Pakistani descent?

They are targeting first and foremost vulnerable women.

 

[manny-p]

I didnt say you did....you cunt. Two can play that game. Great isnt it.

You are being disingenious.

 

[Grandma Death]

You are being disingenious.

What by calling you a cunt?

Seriously-I think the Mirpur 'factor' is the same argument as the cultural 'factor'. I was merely pointing out that the majority of those that descend from the Mirpur region actually dont get involved in sexual exploitation of young vulnerable girls.

 

[danny la rouge]

Then why it that white girls are groomed for abuse by these men and not girls of Pakistani descent?

How do you know that latter point?

 

[manny-p]

What by calling you a cunt?

Seriously-I think the Mirpur 'factor' is the same argument as the cultural 'factor'. I was merely pointing out that the majority of those that descend from the Mirpur region actually dont get involved in sexual exploitation of young vulnerable girls.

Apologise for the cunt comment I lost my temper. You were saying that I was implying that they are involved. I know that this is a tiny minority of people from that origin committing these crimes and don't want to tar them all with the same brush.

 

[Lea]

How do you know that latter point?

Apologies, the Judge did not say that they were not of Pakistani descent only that they were from different communities and religion. I should not have assumed.

 

[IC3D]

Great result, the reason it happened is primarily they are cunts and secondly as white people have fled the area the ones left are seen as fair game because they lack a supportive community

 

[danny la rouge]

Apologies, the Judge did not say that they were not of Pakistani descent only that they were from different communities and religion. I should not have assumed.

What we know is that these men abused young girls and treated them "as though they were worthless and beyond respect". It is to that that I addressed my earlier posts.

 

[_angel_]

So it's the girls fault ?

It's the fault of single mothers, again, that is what he is implying. If only there were some men about then these girls couldn't have been raped. I dunno the logic in that either and don't like the inference it somehow part of the victim's families faults. It's diminishing the responsibility of the men doing the abuse.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Pretty sure you'll find no shortage of other news events that haven't been commented on here, and I'm pretty sure it's got naff all to do with folks suffering a 'collective streak of cowardice' (whatever that is).

As for this story: good work by the cops and great to see these scumbags getting their just desserts.

CPS apparently turned this case down back in 2008 as they said one of the girls involved wasnt a "credible witness".

 

[Grandma Death]

It's the fault of single mothers, again, that is what he is implying. If only there were some men about then these girls couldn't have been raped. I dunno the logic in that either and don't like the inference it somehow part of the victim's families faults. It's diminishing the responsibility of the men doing the abuse.

Great post. I will say however these girls were not only vulnerable but in addition there would've been some self esteem issues too. Low self esteem can come from many different sources and I've no doubt for some it would because of the lack of strong family and community support and coming through the care system. That's not to say girls that come from these backgrounds all have self esteem issues but some will.

 

[Grandma Death]

Great result, the reason it happened is primarily they are cunts and secondly as white people have fled the area the ones left are seen as fair game because they lack a supportive community

I lived and worked in northern towns for nearly eight years. I'm not convinced by your use of the word 'fled' or the term 'those that are left are seen as fair game'. Their vulnerability made them the target rather than them being 'left behind' whilst the indigenous population 'fled'
'

 

[Spymaster]

So are societal attitudes to women within some of these cultures the cause of such exploitation-thats the debate? Now Im saying it can be debated-but we shouldnt lend to much credence to it or get too embroiled in it. Because across these cultures there will be varying degrees of attitudes to women-and even those that are questionable-the majority wont be involved in cases like this.

Whether or not the majority are involved in cases like this is neither here nor there, Granny. Most people aren't involved in any crime at all. What's at issue is your first point vis-a-vis the culture causing this type of exploitation. And we should very much give it credence because gang-rape isn't the only manifestation of the bigotry against women prevalent in many muslim societies, it's a huge issue, this is just towards the particularly nasty end of the spectrum.

Also there are many other factors to consider when you look at the components of this crime coming together. Issues of power. The girls being in this position in the first place. Failure of the care system (and the police in this case)...the list goes on and on. So yes cultural attitudes may well play a part-its just how much time does one give to such a debate when there are so many other issues to consider and not just two spymaster.

Accepted. And by all means feel free to expand the discussion into these areas, but this is going to be the substantive issue for a general public who are currently questioning various islamic practices for a variety of reasons, some more valid than others. An interview with one of the victims of this case (anonymously done) revealed a couple of shocking things: a) this had been going on for many years, and b) it's actually quite common, indeed a lot of the girls abused don't realise they're being abused so don't report it. So there's still plenty of this happening despite the jailing of this set of cunts.

It's not a small issue. Kids are being raped. Now if the majority of rapes of this type are being perpetrated by Pakistani muslim men because elements of their culture have led them to view white teenagers as "worthless" then I say shout it from the fucking rooftops because it has to change.

Take the issue away from the far right. Because whilst it's only them causing a fuss about it, it is playing to their agenda.