Racism towards Travellers in the UK

[Orang Utan]

It’s oft said that it’s the last acceptable form of racism, though unfortunately there seems to be a resurgence of other forms recently due to the likes of Braverman and Farage.
This is an article published today in the Yorkshire Evening Post:

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/people/drighlington-horse-fair-thousands-of-travellers-expected-to-descend-on-leeds-village-4225107

I still hear bigoted language being used about travellers unselfconsciously at work and in public quite often, something I wouldn’t hear when used about other groups.
Why is this?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Bigotry, yes. They’re not a race though are they?

 

[weepiper]

Bigotry, yes. They’re not a race though are they?

They're a recognised ethnic minority, so racism is a fair word to use

Ethnicity facts and figures: Gypsy, Roma and Irish Traveller ethnic group

An overview of facts and figures about people from the Gypsy, Roma and Irish Traveller ethnic groups, and a discussion of data quality issues.

www.gov.uk

 

[pinkmonkey]

Bigotry, yes. They’re not a race though are they?

Info here Gypsies and Travellers - race discrimination.

 

[Orang Utan]

Bigotry, yes. They’re not a race though are they?

Racism is not just about skin colour

 

[pinkmonkey]

It’s oft said that it’s the last acceptable form of racism, though unfortunately there seems to be a resurgence of other forms recently due to the likes of Braverman and Farage.
This is an article published today in the Yorkshire Evening Post:

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/people/drighlington-horse-fair-thousands-of-travellers-expected-to-descend-on-leeds-village-4225107

I still hear bigoted language being used about travellers unselfconsciously at work and in public quite often, something I wouldn’t hear when used about other groups.
Why is this?

I think they're easy to push around and they're so visible and the travelling ones are transient so they are seen as being able to be got rid of. A lot of the criticism they face, well, things have been made difficult to impossible for them. Have you tried getting rid of rubbish if you're NFA? Where does it go then? You need to pay council tax to use the tip up here in W Yorkshire. We count as NFA, because we live onboard and cruise, but we are able to use CRT bins - although there aren't many at all, you have about 10 miles of canal between bins. It's a pain in the arse but at least I have somewhere I can use. When the bins are overflowing, because there aren't enough, we have non liveaboard boaters berating us, calling us animals, yeah well have they tried carrying around half a dozen full bin bags in a heatwave? They have no idea. So I have a lot of empathy, we get accused of the same things. I've had complete strangers tell me what I'm doing is wrong and declare that I'm dodging tax, so imagine the shit that land travellers get. Tried getting a job if you're a traveller? With no address? Or a travellers site address? And the prejudice and often sporadic education you had. Is there any wonder some end up being criminals? Half my neighbours on my old London mooring were Irish travellers, never known such a trustworthy group with strong morals. Lend money? You ALWAYS get it back, my dad tells the tale of lending a traveller some money, forgetting about it, then, wondering why he was being stalked by this mans family members for months afterwards - they were trying to repay him.
My old neighbours son put his kids through private school in order for them to lose the accent and not face the same prejudices that he did. To be able to get a job and not be a criminal like he was. If you met them you'd have no idea they were Irish travellers. That was his plan.

 

[skyscraper101]

I still hear bigoted language being used about travellers unselfconsciously at work and in public quite often, something I wouldn’t hear when used about other groups.
Why is this?

I'm no expert but I suspect the bigoted attitudes are formed by years of media grooming that 'travellers' are generally a nuisance to society who contribute little and infringe on the lives of 'normal hard working people' fueled in no small part by sensationalist reality TV like Big Fat Gypsy Weddings and the like.

 

[Orang Utan]

More info on the discrimination they face that has a very real effect on their life outcomes:

Social barriers faced by Roma, Gypsies and Travellers laid bare in equality survey | Roma, Gypsies and Travellers | The Guardian

British community study finds groups experiencing high levels of poor health, racist assault, job insecurity and deprivation

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Pikey, gyppos, "watch out the gyppo's have moved on the reccie" - all pubs immediately stop taking £50 notes. There's plenty of grief for travellers in UK. They are seen as different. To be scared of. And then they get insular. And move on. With cultural practices, especially regarding gender roles, continuing for generations.

 

[pinkmonkey]

Pikey, gyppos, "watch out the gyppo's have moved on the reccie" - all pubs immediately stop taking £50 notes. There's plenty of grief for travellers in UK. They are seen as different. To be scared of. And then they get insular. And move on. With cultural practices, especially regarding gender roles, continuing for generations.

and every single bit of crime gets blamed on them soon as they arrive. My neighbour said that on some towns, locals would sneak into their camp at night and try to poison their dogs.

 

[Orang Utan]

and every single bit of crime gets blamed on them soon as they arrive. My neighbour said that on some towns, locals would sneak into their camp at night and try to poison their dogs.

I’ve heard that local youths will go on the rob when travellers park up in the locality as they know the travellers will get the blame

 

[platinumsage]

Pikey, gyppos, "watch out the gyppo's have moved on the reccie" - all pubs immediately stop taking £50 notes. There's plenty of grief for travellers in UK. They are seen as different. To be scared of. And then they get insular. And move on. With cultural practices, especially regarding gender roles, continuing for generations.

Lots of generations:

1530 (22 Henry 8 c. 10) An act concerning outlandish people, calling themselves Egyptians

FORASMUCH as before this time divers and many outlandish people calling themselves Egyptians, using no craft nor feat of merchandise have come into this realm, and gone from shire to shire and place to place in great company, and used great, subtil, and crafty means to deceive the people, bearing them in hand that they by palmestry could tell men’s and women’s fortunes, and so many times by craft and subtilty have deceived the people of their money, and also have committed many heinous felonies and robberies, to the great hurt and deceit of the people that they have come among....

 

[Orang Utan]

Lots of generations:

1530 (22 Henry 8 c. 10) An act concerning outlandish people, calling themselves Egyptians

FORASMUCH as before this time divers and many outlandish people calling themselves Egyptians, using no craft nor feat of merchandise have come into this realm, and gone from shire to shire and place to place in great company, and used great, subtil, and crafty means to deceive the people, bearing them in hand that they by palmestry could tell men’s and women’s fortunes, and so many times by craft and subtilty have deceived the people of their money, and also have committed many heinous felonies and robberies, to the great hurt and deceit of the people that they have come among....

Ah, so that’s why Philip Pullman calls the Oxford bargees Gyptians in His Dark Materials

 

[Serge Forward]

Bigotry, yes. They’re not a race though are they?

Unless we're talking about "the human race", race is a social construct.

 

[Orang Utan]

Yeah, Islam isn’t a race, as racists who hate Muslims, love to declaim

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You both know fine well what I meant. Discriminating based on ethnicity is racism.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

What confused me was how an Irish person could be racist to an Irish traveller as they share an ethnicity. But it’s been pointed out they’re classed as their own ethnicity.

 

[Orang Utan]

You both know fine well what I meant. Discriminating based on ethnicity is racism.

it’s a bit more nuanced than that.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

it’s a bit more nuanced than that.

Apparently, and confusingly.

 

[pinkmonkey]

Travellers' Times | Travellers Times this is a good read, for travellers POV

 

[Orang Utan]

Apparently, and confusingly.

It’s not that confusing

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It’s not that confusing

I decide to live on a boat which means I can then be discriminated against because of my ethnicity even if I then decide to live in a house.
Clear as mud.

 

[krtek a houby]

What confused me was how an Irish person could be racist to an Irish traveller as they share an ethnicity. But it’s been pointed out they’re classed as their own ethnicity.

They are othered and demonised by many in Ireland. Been that way for generations. Some of it subtle and some of it not.

 

[Orang Utan]

And yet boaters like pinkmonkey don't face the same sort of discrimination (or to a lesser extent) as travellers. Even thick racists seem to be able to literally discriminate!

 

[krtek a houby]

I decide to live on a boat which means I can then be discriminated against because of my ethnicity even if I then decide to live in a house.
Clear as mud.

There's many Irish of many ethnicities.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And yet boaters like pinkmonkey don't face the same sort of discrimination (or to a lesser extent) as travellers. Even thick racists seem to be able to literally discriminate!

They’re on a level pegging according to one of the above links.

 

[Poot]

Oh, that's weird, only last week I was trying and mainly failing to explain to my daughter why racism is racism when it's directed at travellers. She has friends of lots of ethnicities and wouldn't dream of saying something to offend them. But there's a girl that she doesn't like who's a traveller. "But she looks like me! People confuse us!" Other than saying it's shit to criticise other people based on their culture, which goes right over her head, I'm at a bit of a loss and watching this thread with interest.

 

[maomao]

You both know fine well what I meant. Discriminating based on ethnicity is racism.

Ethnicity is no more of a clear set of categories than race is.

 

[Orang Utan]

They’re on a level pegging according to one of the above links.

View attachment 383922

Would rather address the topic in hand than carry on with a pontificating sideshow which diminishes further sensible discussion

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Ethnicity is no more of a clear set of categories than race is.

It’s a protected characteristic though is it not?