Is a revolution possible in the UK?

[Lotte]

Why? On what are you basing this things would have to get much worse than they are.

Well, we've not exactly had a revolution yet. How bad do things have to get until we do have one? And if there is any kind of coup, it'll be a right-wing one.

As for wearing masks, we were no way near as compliant as other countries. Take Spain. When I went to Primavera Sound in 2022, plenty of people wore masks in Barcelona and it was the same around the country. I went back to the UK and barely anyone was bothering. Our own PM wasn't even arsed about lockdown rules.

 

[shifting gears]

Why? On what are you basing this things would have to get much worse than they are.

Is it, perchance, that’s there’s no visible signs of fomenting revolution despite the fact we’re led by craven crooks and proven liars, accountability of public servants is no longer even laid lip service , people are losing their houses and living off foodbanks, child poverty is through the roof, people can’t get a medical appointment etc etc

Is it that? Maybe?

 

[Pickman's model]

Is it, perchance, that’s there’s no visible signs of fomenting revolution despite the fact we’re led by craven crooks and proven liars, accountability of public servants is no longer even laid lip service , people are losing their houses and living off foodbanks, child poverty is through the roof, people can’t get a medical appointment etc etc

Is it that? Maybe?

No. As you'll see if you go a few posts back.

 

[Lotte]

Standards of living have dropped even further under this government and plenty of people will still vote for them because they know what a woman is, or because Labour will tax them to death, or whatever.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, we've not exactly had a revolution yet. How bad do things have to get until we do have one? And if there is any kind of coup, it'll be a right-wing one.

As for wearing masks, we were no way near as compliant as other countries. Take Spain. When I went to Primavera Sound in 2022, plenty of people wore masks in Barcelona and it was the same around the country. I went back to the UK and barely anyone was bothering. Our own PM wasn't even arsed about lockdown rules.

A coup is very different to a revolution. It's elements within the state seizing control of the state.

Why do you think things getting worse makes a revolution more likely? It's often said but afaics has no actual basis in history. I don't know why you're bringing up wearing masks.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not even a sliver of a chance of it. When people were told to wear masks for no provable reason by the authorities, 99% did. A revolution?

There's an obvious reason if you only had the wit to see it.

 

[Mr Retro]

And if there is any kind of coup, it'll be a right-wing one.

Fully agree

 

[Lotte]

A coup is very different to a revolution. It's elements within the state seizing control of the state.

Why do you think things getting worse makes a revolution more likely? It's often said but afaics has no actual basis in history. I don't know why you're bringing up wearing masks.

In response to the other guy bringing up wearing masks.

As for why I think that? Because living standards are in the toilet and enough people still aren't angry about it, or angry enough to revolt against the government. I don't know what it'll take.

 

[Pickman's model]

In response to the other guy bringing up wearing masks.

As for why I think that? Because living standards are in the toilet and enough people still aren't angry about it, or angry enough to revolt against the government. I don't know what it'll take.

It's traditional to reply to the person who makes a point you wish to respond to, because otherwise it's very confusing

Look,you're claiming on absolutely no evidence (despite being asked at least twice for it) that declining living standards push people to revolution. Why? Can you name a country where this has been the case? People can be right fucked off and not make a revolution - consider a country where graduates will pay off their higher education over the course of a lifetime, where many people are tied into debts lasting 25 years of more for their housing, where rents are super high. Perhaps people are angry but they've bills to pay so can't risk being nicked. Seems to me - and it's something I read somewhere rather than original - that it's when things are improving but the bigger pie not equally shared that people get right fucked off.

Right now there isn't the means, some extra-parliamentary force round which people can coalesce. There isn't the motive as unlike france in 1789 or Russia in 1917 the UK has a long tradition of Parliamentary democracy. But parliament is becoming discredited and I expect the next government will weaken it still further. So on that front I think the probability of revolution is enhanced

 

[pbsmooth]

Not even a sliver of a chance of it. When people were told to wear masks for no provable reason by the authorities, 99% did. A revolution?

Loony alert!

 

[Favelado]

British people hate themselves and each other too much to want a better life so I'm going to say 'no'.

 

[Dystopiary]

Of course it's possible at some point but Britain could be fully involved in a hot war before things reach that point.

The climate is in crisis, society in Britain and elsewhere is becoming more unequal and more divided. There are billionaires with huge amounts of power.

However it happens things are going to get very tough for a lot of people.

 

[Yossarian]

There's an obvious reason if you only had the wit to see it.

Elsewhere, people defied government advice against mask-wearing

Now they turned their powers to critical analysis to the coronavirus: criticizing their own officials, as well as the World Health Organization, which did not advise wearing masks or travel restrictions, and China, which they saw as covering up the initial epidemic (they were right on all counts).

In response to the crisis, Hong Kongers spontaneously adopted near-universal masking on their own, defying the government’s ban on masks. When Lam oscillated between not wearing a mask in public and wearing one but incorrectly, they blasted her online and mocked her incorrect mask wearing. In response to the mask shortage, the foot soldiers of the protest movement set up mask brigades—acquiring and distributing masks, especially to the poor and elderly, who may not be able to spend hours in lines. An “army of volunteers” also spread among the intensely crowded and often decrepit tenement buildings to install and keep filled hand-sanitizer dispensers.

https://archive.ph/R0HZq

 

[PR1Berske]

Re: wearing masks etc, that was followed because it was necessary and correct and spoke to a British sensibility.

On the wider issue, a revolution requires unity of resource, and unity of purpose. I can't see either happening here. The British psyche defers to particular authority figures, too (see the deference to the Royals from some quarters, and the falling behind Farage from others, two different kinds of 'elite).

 

[Pickman's model]

On the wider issue, a revolution requires unity of resource, and unity of purpose. I can't see either happening here. The British psyche defers to particular authority figures, too (see the deference to the Royals from some quarters, and the falling behind Farage from others, two different kinds of 'elite).

no it doesn’t. Can you name a revolution where there has been this peculiar unity of resource and unity of purpose?

 

[PR1Berske]

British people hate themselves and each other too much to want a better life so I'm going to say 'no'.

There's much truth here. The "mustn't grumble" resilience of the British isn't just something from outdated sitcoms. Putting up with our lot is hard wired into us.

 

[Elpenor]

If it’s the wrong sort of revolution may need fridgemagnet to delete some posts quickly else we will all be up against the wall

 

[PR1Berske]

If it’s the wrong sort of revolution may need fridgemagnet to delete some posts quickly else we will all be up against the wall

Yeah if it's a right wing revolution we could do with hiding this forum behind a fake landing page for a while.

 

[Fez909]

A revolution would require the support, if not active participation, of the majority of the population.

The '3.5% rule': How a small minority can change the world

Nonviolent protests are twice as likely to succeed as armed conflicts – and those engaging a threshold of 3.5% of the population have never failed to bring about change.

www.bbc.com

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Daft question. Anything could happen. In the future. If there were some kind of revolution, would it be one that we would like? Probably not, judging by most historical revolutions.

 

[T & P]

Not a snowball’s chance in hell, imo. If anything, a populist fascist takeover, however unlikely and thank fuck for that, would still get shorter odds than any kind of left wing revolution.

At the end of the day, when you get any number of working class people voting for right wing parties or entertaining notions of immigrants being responsible for the social and economic decline in their communities, there is as much of a chance of a revolution happening as of Trump being the next Pope.

And it’s even worse in most of Continental Europe of course, with large numbers of WC people in poor countries voting en masse for not just mainstream right wing parties but openly fascist, racist, misogynist, homophobic ones.

I don’t know if we’re just hardwired to believe any old shit we read because it’s printed on a newspaper or published on a website or if it’s something else that has removed our capacity for any critical thinking, but things will have to get extremely grim before we cease being turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not a snowball’s chance in hell, imo. If anything, a populist fascist takeover, however unlikely and thank fuck for that, would still get shorter odds than any kind of left wing revolution.

At the end of the day, when you get any number of working class people voting for right wing parties or entertaining notions of immigrants being responsible for the social and economic decline in their communities, there is as much of a chance of a revolution happening as of Trump being the next Pope.

And it’s even worse in most of Continental Europe of course, with large numbers of WC people in poor countries voting en masse for not just mainstream right wing parties but openly fascist, racist, misogynist, homophobic ones.

I don’t know if we’re just hardwired to believe any old shit we read because it’s printed on a newspaper or published on a website or if it’s something else that has removed our capacity for any critical thinking, but things will have to get extremely grim before we cease being turkeys voting for Christmas.

We'll find out in the next two or three decades then

 

[Bingoman]

If you believe Nigel Farage he thinks he will cause a revolution on July the 4th

 

[8ball]

The '3.5% rule': How a small minority can change the world

Nonviolent protests are twice as likely to succeed as armed conflicts – and those engaging a threshold of 3.5% of the population have never failed to bring about change.

www.bbc.com

There’s plenty of newer information and commentary on this 3.5% rule suggesting some misapplication at best.

I also think the comment about masks is perfectly pertinent and relevant. It’s just that people on this site are generally on the opposing side (before the usual nonsense starts, a quick search will show I was supportive of mask wearing at the time).

A great many posters on here were very on board with quite severe punishment of dissenters around that time too.

Obv there are differences between people saying stuff on the internet and what they would tolerate in reality, but some of it was more than a bit dark.

 

[Humberto]

There's myriad things that can cause upheaval as we've already seen this decade, and climate change is the one sure to keep coming back harder and more disruptive.

 

[xenon]

If you believe Nigel Farage he thinks he will cause a revolution on July the 4th

A lot of eyes will certainly roll.

 

[8ball]

If you believe Nigel Farage he thinks he will cause a revolution on July the 4th

If he effectively destroys the Tory party for a generation or two, that will do for me, jaded as I am.

 

[tonysingh]

The '3.5% rule': How a small minority can change the world

Nonviolent protests are twice as likely to succeed as armed conflicts – and those engaging a threshold of 3.5% of the population have never failed to bring about change.

www.bbc.com

Thank you for that, I stand corrected and enlightened.

 

[8ball]

There's myriad things that can cause upheaval as we've already seen this decade, and climate change is the one sure to keep coming back harder and more disruptive.

Def agree on the first point. More tentative on the second in terms of some quoted scenarios*, but I can see it feeding into political problems.

* - IANACS (I Am Not A Climate Scientist) disclaimer applies.

 

[DotCommunist]

'oh no never, hasn't happened before, can't happen again, the subjects love the king you see and there is no separating them from their beloved father-tsar myths. Besides the people are complaisant and naturally servile, also so easily exploited in their bigotries and divisions. Why, they shall never unite in a way that threatens the crown' etc etc ad fucking nauseum. All this has happened before and will happen again.