Do you support the UK increase in the military budget?

[InArduisFouette]

Guessing it’s not earmarked for military mental health services, upgraded accommodation and life time support of multi- amputees

So that’s a fuck no from me

1. drastiically reformed and currently underutilised as current and former personnel do not take up referrals
2. significant part of the SLA modernaisation done, NAM changing the picture for SFA
3. you are showing your ignorance here

 

[bellaozzydog]

I'd quite like to know what is being done with the current military procurement budget, given that the Army are known globally as the "borrowers" because radios, rifles, Snatch Land Rovers, er, don't really work at all. Given that we wasted enormous amounts of coin on ships we don't need and when they do put to sea develop massive mechanical problems almost immediately and even when they work are crashed by cretinous officers who don't know what they're doing. The air force is chronically under-equipped and cut to the bone, with so many aircraft on the books but not serviceable for lack of parts or expertise. Helicopters that should have been scrapped decades ago were being patched up daily by erks and put back in the air in Afghanistan.

I have met one or two former Army people who just shake their heads when the topic of military procurement is raised. There is so much waste, idiocy and corruption in the process.

Would dearly wish for armed forces globally to be done away with but unfortunately we are facing a Russian authoritarian strongman who has decided to live in the parallel universe where Russia is in an existential struggle with "the West" and is cobbling together an alliance of the wrold's worst regimes. Not increasing military spending and preparedness in such a world is not really a credible option unfortunately. We can't just wish these people away as PPU and other hardliners appear to wish to do.

War's the worst of all options, an absolute failure of human deiplomacy and decency, the very worst outcome producing the very worst lives for all involved. No one wants it. But we may be geting it anyway.

It’s simply a transfer of money from the tax payer to the arms firms. Equipment notionally “has to work” but in reality no one gives a fuck other than the people (brown poor foreign) on the receiving end and the squaddies who have to do the governments bidding with inadequate resources (minimum manpower and equipment that doesn’t work properly)

Lt Colonels promise their workforce can shoot the moon with one eye on personal PR and promotion up the ladder.

Generals demand the Lt Colonels do what they say they will with equipment supplied on unlimited budget fuckabout procurement signed off with a promise of a spot on the arms company board or G4S whence retirement hovers on the horizon.

It’s all a fucking scam

A self licking lollipop of deceit.

 

[Elpenor]

Iraq aside, I’ve generally felt that UK military interventions in my lifetime have been proportionate and justifiable,

out of curiosity does this bit include British army actions in Northern Ireland?

 

[Silas Loom]

out of curiosity does this bit include British army actions in Northern Ireland?

I probably don’t know enough about them all, but I was born after Bloody Sunday. Also, while there were clearly some very bad individual actions by some soldiers (and probably some worse and more cynical choices made by the security services), it’s fair to say that British troops were needed in NI while the IRA was waging warfare.

 

[bcuster]

I think the US will reduce its commitment to NATO. Prudence demands the UK plan accordingly.

I would love to see the UK rebuild its naval forces and have a top notch Navy again.

 

[Silas Loom]

I think the US will reduce its commitment to NATO. Prudence demands the IK plan accordingly.

I would love to see the UK rebuild its naval forces and have a top notch Navy again.

Brave choice. If the Ukraine war is proving anything, it’s how vulnerable expensive warships are.

 

[bcuster]

Brave choice. If the Ukraine war is proving anything, it’s how vulnerable expensive warships are.

Old, poorly built ones certainly are.

US Aegis destroyers with their 99% + knockdown rate of anti-ship missiles are not vulnberable at all.
Missile armed nuclear submarines are invulnerable to attack

No reason that the UK should have an inferior Navy

 

[Raheem]

We're in a hybrid war with Russia, and it's artificial to suppose you can divide it into a hot war over there and a cold war at home. If we were to do that, we would lose the war.

If you want peace, you need a way of achieving it. It doesn't work to just turn a blind eye.

 

[klang]

I would love to see the UK rebuild its naval forces and have a top notch Navy again.

No reason that the UK should have an inferior Navy

Why?
At what cost?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I was talking to my lad's friend once. He was very pro nuclear weapons. Essential for our security! He was also very anti Tory. So I asked him if he trusted the current government with the NHS. Nope. With the railways? Nope. With the water companies? With the environment? With education? Justice? Levelling up? Nope, nope, nope, nope and nope? So why trust the current government with the nuclear button?
He went all quiet then.
This applies to any and all 'defence' spending. How will all this kit be used? Who decides? Are their perceived interests the same as ours?

 

[Dogsauce]

I thought one of the problems with military procurement in the UK is that many times they’ve attempted to develop a homegrown bit of equipment but ended up spending huge amounts in development (frequently ‘too many chefs’ making this worse) for something inferior to a piece of kit they could have bought much cheaper off the shelf from overseas.

The motivation for this is often to provide jobs or keep critical defence production facilities in work, but perhaps would be better just to buy something off the Americans and create jobs in the NHS instead.

 

[Elpenor]

I probably don’t know enough about them all, but I was born after Bloody Sunday. Also, while there were clearly some very bad individual actions by some soldiers (and probably some worse and more cynical choices made by the security services), it’s fair to say that British troops were needed in NI while the IRA was waging warfare.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I was talking to my lad's friend once. He was very pro nuclear weapons. Essential for our security! He was also very anti Tory. So I asked him if he trusted the current government with the NHS. Nope. With the railways? Nope. With the water companies? With the environment? With education? Justice? Levelling up? Nope, nope, nope, nope and nope? So why trust the current government with the nuclear button?
He went all quiet then.
This applies to any and all 'defence' spending. How will all this kit be used? Who decides? Are their perceived interests the same as ours?

AFAIK the military seems to just get on with shit regardless of what the chinless wonders in government say. And regardless of your stance on the need for armed forces, Dartmouth, Sandhurst and Cranwell are at the very pinnacle of excellence in their fields.

There seems to be the same laissez faire attitude in the military toward money/equipment that we see in most government agencies, the sums are just too much for most folk to comprehend. Add to that the nature of their work being somewhat dangerous and you can see how sometimes a one-day-to-be brigadier might accidentally drop a couple of million quid's worth of shit in to the North Sea and no one gets too excited by it...

 

[A380]

AFAIK the military seems to just get on with shit regardless of what the chinless wonders in government say. And regardless of your stance on the need for armed forces, Dartmouth, Sandhurst and Cranwell are at the very pinnacle of excellence in their fields.

There seems to be the same laissez faire attitude in the military toward money/equipment that we see in most government agencies, the sums are just too much for most folk to comprehend. Add to that the nature of their work being someone dangerous and you can see how sometimes a one-day-to-be brigadier might accidentally drop a couple of million quid's worth of shit in to the North Sea and no one gets too excited by it...

Yes, I mean where would the association of ridiculous red chino manufacturers be without Sandhurst?

 

[Sasaferrato]

After a lot of thought, yes, I do support an increase in the defence budget.

Had you asked the question prior to Ukraine, the answer would have been no, but I feel that we are closer to a major conflict than we have been at any time in my life.

 

[Sasaferrato]

AFAIK the military seems to just get on with shit regardless of what the chinless wonders in government say. And regardless of your stance on the need for armed forces, Dartmouth, Sandhurst and Cranwell are at the very pinnacle of excellence in their fields.

There seems to be the same laissez faire attitude in the military toward money/equipment that we see in most government agencies, the sums are just too much for most folk to comprehend. Add to that the nature of their work being somewhat dangerous and you can see how sometimes a one-day-to-be brigadier might accidentally drop a couple of million quid's worth of shit in to the North Sea and no one gets too excited by it...

The fuckwittedness of military procurement has been there for ever.

We instituted a computer based system (using an Apple II that was supplied purely to print labels) for stock control for our dependant outstations, in six months we saved £40,000.00. This was in 1984, so serious money. We asked for a computer purely for this system, and were told no. The drugs saving was maintenance budget, the computer was capital budget, and the capital budget was spent for the year. We gave up.

 

[bcuster]

I thought one of the problems with military procurement in the UK is that many times they’ve attempted to develop a homegrown bit of equipment but ended up spending huge amounts in development (frequently ‘too many chefs’ making this worse) for something inferior to a piece of kit they could have bought much cheaper off the shelf from overseas.

The motivation for this is often to provide jobs or keep critical defence production facilities in work, but perhaps would be better just to buy something off the Americans and create jobs in the NHS instead.

The Australians want to buy top line US submarines. Any intetest in UK?

'Does not inspire confidence': Congress committee questions US Navy heads amid AUKUS fears

The US Navy's head of weapons acquisitions says they have "a long ways to go" to increase shipbuilding to the necessary level to deliver on the AUKUS agreement to provide nuclear-powered submarines to Australia.

www.abc.net.au

Australia plans to buy three American nuclear-powered submarines from the early 2030s.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

We instituted a computer based system (using an Apple II that was supplied purely to print labels) for stock control for our dependant outstations, in six months we saved £40,000.00. This was in 1984, so serious money. We asked for a computer purely for this system, and were told no. The drugs saving was maintenance budget, the computer was capital budget, and the capital budget was spent for the year. We gave up.

This is why I could never work for government, or any large organisation tbf, would go ape at this kind of shit and be sacked within days.

 

[The39thStep]

Also I voted yes; but then I support increases to the budgets of all areas of the public sector.

Where's the magic money tree?

 

[Silas Loom]

The fuckwittedness of military procurement has been there for ever.

We instituted a computer based system (using an Apple II that was supplied purely to print labels) for stock control for our dependant outstations, in six months we saved £40,000.00. This was in 1984, so serious money. We asked for a computer purely for this system, and were told no. The drugs saving was maintenance budget, the computer was capital budget, and the capital budget was spent for the year. We gave up.

Why on earth didn’t you find a computer supplier who would lease the system to you instead, transforming it from capital expenditure to operating expenditure?

 

[Spandex]

Where's the magic money tree?

There's one at 1 Horse Guards Road, London, SW1A 2HQ.

There's another one at Threadneedle St, London, EC2R 8AH.

 

[The39thStep]

The entire population of the British Army (regulars) wouldn't fill Old Trafford stadium.

According to the National Statistics section Quarterly Service personnel statistics 1 January 2024 there were 75, 170 in the UK regular Armed Forces. Old Trafford has a capacity of 74,310. So actually they wouldn't fit.

However, the good news is that according to this Times article , if they continue to lose troops at the same rate as the present rate then they should be able to get fill Manchester City's Etihad Stadium in ten tears time.

https://archive.ph/BMAqW

 

[A380]

Where's the magic money tree?

Hopefully in a weak country less technologically advanced than the UK so we could use our military to go and take it off them And build a railway or something in return.

 

[The39thStep]

Hopefully in a weak country less technologically advanced than the UK so we could use our military to go and take it off them And build a railway or something in return.

India might be suitable

 

[Spymaster]

According to the National Statistics section Quarterly Service personnel statistics 1 January 2024 there were 75, 170 in the UK regular Armed Forces. Old Trafford has a capacity of 74,310. So actually they wouldn't fit.

However, the good news is that according to this Times article , if they continue to lose troops at the same rate as the present rate then they should be able to get fill Manchester City's Etihad Stadium in ten tears time.

But would they want to?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Why on earth didn’t you find a computer supplier who would lease the system to you instead, transforming it from capital expenditure to operating expenditure?

Me.

Someone who could take that decision--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

We're being attacked by Russia and China on a daily basis. The trouble is that the main threat is not a traditional military one. The annual budget for cyber security is £380 million, although I have no clue whether that's a lot or a joke.

Police are apparently diverting a lot of attention and resources to cybercrime, according to an ex-cop colleague of mine who was recently talking to one of his old (still serving) mates.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Tell that to the family of Dawn Sturgess.

Plus the hybrid war has been underway for years, cyberattacks, political meddling. All the superpower shit never stopped, too many invested in the trade.

The Russians weren't attacking the UK though, they were attacking/assassinating their own on UK soil and unfortunately Dawn Sturgess was - that horrible phrase - collateral damage.

If the Russians were intentionally attacking British targets, assassinating eg British politicians or military on UK soil, it would be a different matter.

Governments the world over turn a sort of blind eye to spooks/ex-spooks shenanigans and/or foreign dictators taking out political adversaries. They might carry out a few tit-for-tat expulsions as a token gesture, but they generally don't/won't let is escalate to hostilities between nation states.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Guessing it’s not earmarked for military mental health services, upgraded accommodation and life time support of multi- amputees

That include the amputee kids they bombed on their travels? Thought not.

 

[YouSir]

Nope, no one's looking to invade us and until we're rid of our own government we're not to be trusted projecting force anywhere. Would trust my cat with an assault rifle more than I'd trust the British state (Tory or Labour lead).