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    Lazy Llama

Purnell: more attacks on the unemployed, etc

Blimey, I haven't got kids or health issues or anything and I'd love a job which pays me forty grand with flexible hours. I had to take a fat pay cut to get the flexible one I have right now, and that was with specialist skills.
 
Boot Camps

Perhaps the only way to get long term unemployed, who've developed mental illneses or psycho sematic conditions is boot camp style training, to break this parasitical mindset.:eek::hmm::)
 
Tbaldwin you must be a contortionist for a living. The way you twist and turn to justify this appalling New Labour government is desperate. You repeat the propaganda that they have doubled spending on health without acknowledging that this extra money is soaked up by the PFI companies that have taken over 20% of provision and rising.

Either that or you actually work for New Labour in some capacity. One day I hope you look around and see the reality that others experience. Your stubborn refusal to listen and to provide supporting evidence for your assertions that all is well with the world makes me feel quite weary. :hmm:
 
There are loads of jobs like that. Why people keep questioning it on here is way beyond me.......
You are talking nonsense. Complete rubbish. There are no jobs of that kind available to people in the circumstances described by Urbanblues and it is insulting to suggest that there are. When asked to cite examples you have studiously avoided doing so.

More than that, you have derailed this thread, which was about the reasonableness or otherwise of the UK government's plans to make it a condition of ESA that people without basic skills such as reading, writing and counting do something to improve their skills. As I have said, I think it is a reasonable condition. I suspect others don't. I don't imagine that Urbanblues or anyone else here is lacking in these basic skills.

Edited to add - looking at the original post, I should clarify Treelover made exaggerated claims about the statement by James Purnell which weren't borne out by the PA story he cited.
 
Perhaps the only way to get long term unemployed, who've developed mental illneses or psycho sematic conditions is boot camp style training, to break this parasitical mindset.:eek::hmm::)

Nigel. Why don't you insult me publicly; doing so on PMs is so cowardly. Do you still want to know where I live?
 
For The Abolition Of The Shirking Class

Nigel. Why don't you insult me publicly; doing so on PMs is so cowardly. Do you still want to know where I live?
You put down that you wanted me to help you find work or training, which I was happy to help you with. Then you start getting paranoid and insulting me.
Bit like VP.
You can't have it both ways
 
You put down that you wanted me to help you find work or training, which I was happy to help you with. Then you start getting paranoid and insulting me.
Bit like VP.
You’ve a track record of threatening disabled people Nigel. What’s up mate; did you walk in on your mum giving Long John Silver a blowjob; or, did your missus confess to having anal with Quasimodo?:D
You can't have it both ways
Unlike your missus, eh?:D
 
I did'nt insult you in my original PM to you did I?
Did'nt ask for your address.
Asked which area you lived in, because on one of your posts you asked for help getting work or training.

Then you reply insulting me and being paranoid, & I reacted to that.
DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I did'nt insult you in my original PM to you did I?
Did'nt ask for your address.
Asked which area you lived in, because on one of your posts you asked for help getting work or training.

Then you reply insulting me and being paranoid, & I reacted to that.
DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Nigel, you’re confusing me with someone who gives a fuck.

No, I was responding to tbaldwin who is under the impression that my disability is not a barrier to my finding work, whether it is paid or voluntary. The fact is, I’m not looking for work or training; as I find life difficult enough coping with chronic pain, fatigue and a plethora of other disabilities.

I don’t live in poverty. My physical health is relatively good, despite the impact of disabilities; as is my mental health, despite bouts of mild depression. I’m not lonely; nor in any way socially excluded. Therefore, I do not fit the bill of poverty stricken disabled person excluded from society.

If I was compelled to work or undertake training; I would within a very short period become both impoverished and socially excluded. First, I’d lose my job quickly – as, no employer would be able to take on someone with such an erratic condition. If I’m dismissed for bad timekeeping; I’ll be viewed as contributing to my own dismissal by the DWP, and will not qualify for benefits. This would have a knock-on effect with my care plan; and, I could lose my PAs. If this happened; my situation would decline rapidly.

If I can’t get out of bed; the bed becomes my toilet. I won’t be able to shower or dress. I couldn’t get to the ships to buy food; but then, I wouldn’t need to, as I wouldn’t be able to cook what I purchased, if I did get to the shops.

By this time, warning letters from the Council, gas, electric, telephone, etc would all be mounting up in the post box outside my front door; the one I couldn’t access. Before long Barry bailiff (probably one of your pals Nigel; if not you yourself – cos, you come across as a bailiffy kinda cunt) would be forcing entry into my flat – the good thing would be, they’d be throwing-up their breakfasts when my perfume hits their olfactory senses.

By then, I’d be homeless, sick, destitute and by any recognisable definition of the term, pretty much socially excluded. But, it will have been worth it in order to prove to the authorities I wasn’t malingering.:eek:
 
Perhaps the only way to get long term unemployed, who've developed mental illneses or psycho sematic conditions is boot camp style training, to break this parasitical mindset.:eek::hmm::)

Nigel, could you please send me a threatening PM, as I'm beginning to feel smugly safe.:D
 
I'm sure you do.
What do you want me to say?

I'll leave the content to you pumpkin; as you're extremely qualified in sending angry threats to vulnerable people.

I bet you’re the scourge the old ladies and babies in your manor, eh? No gossiping old dears or squawking kids in Nigelland.
 
Nonsense. Employment rates for disabled people remain some 30% lower than for non-disabled people - to point at the benefits system as being the main cause for this shocking statistic is arrant nonsense. Yes, there are some disabled people who have been lucky enough to secure appropriate employment, but they remain the exception rather than the rule, and that is largely down to labour market discrimination quite simply. Even when in work, research has shown that disabled people are often paid less and have less opportunities to progress that non-disabled colleagues.

moronic? well, you'd know all about that wouldn't you....

The facts are that i said disabled people can work.....And we both know thats true. Both know that loads of disabled people do work.
You talk about labour market discrimination. But that is only part of the problem.
 
So, basically, you're talking shit. There are hundreds of thousands of these jobs, but you can't show us a single one.



See? Up there? There's a post from me that also says that 'put separately, those claims are fine.' Of course lots of people with disabilities work.

That's not what you've been claiming, though - you've been claiming that (repeated): there are thousands of jobs paying £40k pro rata on an extremely flexible schedule that someone with severe disabilities, or someone with little experience, can get.

Now I'm getting deja vu on my deja vu.

Straight question scifam....Do you concede that there are thousands of jobs paying over 40k with flexible hours or not?

I didnt make any claim that i would show people adverts or that people with severe disabilities or little experience could just drop in to....as you and others on here must well know....
But yes some people with disabilities can get very well paid jobs....
 
Straight question scifam....Do you concede that there are thousands of jobs paying over 40k with flexible hours or not?
Do you concede that there are disabled people, like me, whose conditions are so chronic and variable as to make it almost impossible to match us to even the most flexible of jobs? Do you concede that when someone, like me, tells you I’m not living in poverty, nor am I socially excluded, that maybe remaining on benefits is a legitimate choice? Or, are you sticking the view that all disabled people should be forced into some activity in order to make them accountable to you and your Middle England ilk?
I didnt make any claim that i would show people adverts or that people with severe disabilities or little experience could just drop in to....as you and others on here must well know....
No, but you stated I could get a job as a fundraiser; yet I have no experience in this field. You also suggested I take a job as a disability advisor; even though I’m not qualified for such a position; and, have difficulties making myself understood on a telephone – see quote below.

Your obviously reasonably intelligent, you can use a computer what about a job as a fundraiser or on an advice line for disabled people?

But yes some people with disabilities can get very well paid jobs....
As do able-bodied people; yet, in both groups, the majority of people are not in “...very well paid jobs.”
 
Straight question scifam....Do you concede that there are thousands of jobs paying over 40k with flexible hours or not?

You're being sneaky here: you claimed there were hundreds of thousands of such jobs, not thousands. 'Thousands' of such jobs - I'm not sure; maybe. I was under the impression that most jobs paying that amount of money also required quite long working hours.

I didnt make any claim that i would show people adverts or that people with severe disabilities or little experience could just drop in to....as you and others on here must well know....
But yes some people with disabilities can get very well paid jobs....

Review posts 35-38. Someone asks 'there are jobs like that for someone with my disabilities?' And they outlined their disabilities in detail. You say yes, there are.

Someone else asks 'there are jobs like this for someone who can't make it in to work for days on end?' You reply yes, there will be hundreds of thousands of jobs like that.

Someone else comments that those jobs are only for those who are already highly-skilled and have been working in that field for years. You reply:

Highly skilled qualified people eh....eeerrrmmm....
Depends who you know i suppose Angel....

Which doesn't actually tell me much, to be fair, apart from the fact that you don't know how to use punctuation correctly.

So yes, you did claim that people with severe disabilities and little experience could find such work. You claimed that specific people on here with those issues would be able to find such work, too.

The question is not whether some people with disabilities can get very well-paid jobs - that is utterly irrelevant.
 
Straight question scifam....Do you concede that there are thousands of jobs paying over 40k with flexible hours or not?

I didnt make any claim that i would show people adverts or that people with severe disabilities or little experience could just drop in to....as you and others on here must well know....
But yes some people with disabilities can get very well paid jobs....

You live in some weird middle class bubble it seems.
 
You’ve a track record of threatening disabled people Nigel.
Probably the only men he feels he has a chance of beating.
If he ever tries to carry out his threat to kill me, he's likely to find that, yet again, he's wrong. :)
What’s up mate; did you walk in on your mum giving Long John Silver a blowjob; or, did your missus confess to having anal with Dr Strangelove?:D

Unlike your missus, eh?:D
Oh dear, he gets very tearful and abusive if you insult his family, he'll probably PM you demanding that you remove the insults or he'll be round to bump you off. ;)

Yes, he is that big a plum. :D
 
So yes, you did claim that people with severe disabilities and little experience could find such work. You claimed that specific people on here with those issues would be able to find such work, too.

The question is not whether some people with disabilities can get very well-paid jobs - that is utterly irrelevant.

Still stick by that. Some definetely could...Others would find it very very difficult.

Why do you think that is an irrelevant question on a thread discussing employment/unemployment of people with disabilities?
 
Nigel, you’re confusing me with someone who gives a fuck.

No, I was responding to tbaldwin who is under the impression that my disability is not a barrier to my finding work, whether it is paid or voluntary. The fact is, I’m not looking for work or training; as I find life difficult enough coping with chronic pain, fatigue and a plethora of other disabilities.

I don’t live in poverty. My physical health is relatively good, despite the impact of disabilities; as is my mental health, despite bouts of mild depression. I’m not lonely; nor in any way socially excluded. Therefore, I do not fit the bill of poverty stricken disabled person excluded from society.

If I was compelled to work or undertake training; I would within a very short period become both impoverished and socially excluded. First, I’d lose my job quickly – as, no employer would be able to take on someone with such an erratic condition. If I’m dismissed for bad timekeeping; I’ll be viewed as contributing to my own dismissal by the DWP, and will not qualify for benefits. This would have a knock-on effect with my care plan; and, I could lose my PAs. If this happened; my situation would decline rapidly.

If I can’t get out of bed; the bed becomes my toilet. I won’t be able to shower or dress. I couldn’t get to the ships to buy food; but then, I wouldn’t need to, as I wouldn’t be able to cook what I purchased, if I did get to the shops.

By this time, warning letters from the Council, gas, electric, telephone, etc would all be mounting up in the post box outside my front door; the one I couldn’t access. Before long Barry bailiff (probably one of your pals Nigel; if not you yourself – cos, you come across as a bailiffy kinda cunt) would be forcing entry into my flat – the good thing would be, they’d be throwing-up their breakfasts when my perfume hits their olfactory senses.

By then, I’d be homeless, sick, destitute and by any recognisable definition of the term, pretty much socially excluded. But, it will have been worth it in order to prove to the authorities I wasn’t malingering.:eek:

Well said, that man, most of the above is true for me, too.
 
Oh joy, an afternoon spent reading through Work Skills, the Green Paper that prompted the o/p.....

I have to say that i think there are certain aspects of it that do appear to be making good sense to me. The paper pledges that everyone will have access to a personal Skills Account, providing them with up to £7,000 worth of vocational training from local colleges, training providers or in-work training. It seems that individuals will be given a vouncher with an accredited provider, of their choice. If the problems of Individual Learning Accounts have been overcome (massive systemic fraud and poor provision), then this may provide some much needed help to people who've previously been failed by the educational system in whatever way.

Of course, a definite downside is the proposal that all jsa claimants initially, and then all out-of-work claimants in the longer term, must undergo a skills health check on pain of losing already barely adequate benefit payments. If the programmes are going to be so effective, accessible and appropriate, people would choose to join up anyway but compulsion is increasingly a feature of welfare and looks to be an accepted orthodoxy in modern welfare states in many countries.

Deveolved spending is certainly being implemented, with £1.5billion being allocated over 3 years to a Working Neighbourhoods Fund to provide non-ringfenced funding to local authorities with high levels of worklessness and deprivation, as well as Multi-Area Agreements to bring together partnerships happening through Local Area Agreements and Local Strategic Partnerships. Yet, within these wonderfully benign partnerships, i find it very revealing that there is not one mention of any dialogue with, or even space for, trade unions, whether as potential skills providers, in terms of information or advice provision, nor as partners at national, regional or local levels.
 
Still stick by that. Some definetely could...Others would find it very very difficult.

Why do you think that is an irrelevant question on a thread discussing employment/unemployment of people with disabilities?

So do you now admit that you did say that people with severe disabilities and tricky care arrangements can easily get part-time flexible jobs paying £40k pro rata? You've stopped denying it, at least.

The fact that some people with disabilities can get work is not relevant to people on incapacity benefit. Having disabilities, in itself, does not get you incapacity benefit; being unable to work due to your disabilities does.

Those disabled people who work obviously are not unable to work, so would not be entitled to incapacity benefit anyway.
 
So do you now admit that you did say that people with severe disabilities and tricky care arrangements can easily get part-time flexible jobs paying £40k pro rata? You've stopped denying it, at least.

The fact that some people with disabilities can get work is not relevant to people on incapacity benefit. Having disabilities, in itself, does not get you incapacity benefit; being unable to work due to your disabilities does.

Those disabled people who work obviously are not unable to work, so would not be entitled to incapacity benefit anyway.

You are just about 100% wrong on all of that. Lots of people the vast majority of people who get IB could work....I would say above 90%.
There is a problem with lack of suitable work....yes.......but that is far from the only or main problem....
It is utterly ridiculous and contemptible to say that the majority of people on IB cant work....
 
You are just about 100% wrong on all of that. Lots of people the vast majority of people who get IB could work....I would say above 90%.
There is a problem with lack of suitable work....yes.......but that is far from the only or main problem....
It is utterly ridiculous and contemptible to say that the majority of people on IB cant work....
*sighs*

ok sherlock, where does your 90% of IB claimants could work come from, in the context of the current day labour market, rather than some fictitious world of fantasy that doesn't exist outside of your head?

how can you fit 2,340,000 people (90% of the total IB claims) into 600,000 vacancies as currently are claimed to exist? lets start with that.
 
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