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Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working...

Humberto said:
remoaners is tory press staple
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Yes, I think that term comes with a troubling undertone. Implicit is the notion that, once an democratic outcome is effected through a majoritarian system, those in the minority are under some sort of obligation to shut up.
 
brogdale said:
Yes, I think that term comes with a troubling undertone. Implicit is the notion that, once an democratic outcome is effected through a majoritarian system, those in the minority are under some sort of obligation to shut up.
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There is a strong current of this. So much "if X wins then I'll leave" or "we won, too bad - if you don't like it then leave".

Fucking politics. It's so depressing that everyone is so fucking stupid and small minded.

Alien invasion or artificial intelligence take over is our only hope.
 
Idaho said:
There is a strong current of this. So much "if X wins then I'll leave" or "we won, too bad - if you don't like it then leave".

Fucking politics. It's so depressing that everyone is so fucking stupid and small minded.

Alien invasion or artificial intelligence take over is our only hope.
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AI isn't helping, just creating self reinforcing bubbles.
 
One for the hate fuelled, anti-east European migrant, racists that make up the Brexit vote obviously...

"Beat on the b(o)rat with a baseball bat"
 
killer b said:
It hasn't been coined here either, that's the point I was making - it was coined by the tory press, and using it uncritically is allowing them to set the terms of the debate.
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I don't see the divide as being as simple as "tory press". Times, Telegraph, poss FT - Soft Brexit, All tabloids - its all about the immigration innit: Sun,Mail,Express Hard Brexit, Mirror Remoan. Guardian, BBC -Remaniacs.
 
Idaho said:
It meant something very different in 1900! I don't think many Lloyd George voters cooked quinoa and went to yoga.
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it means the same as it did then and the mockery of social accoutrements associated with the tradition today is irrelevant. I've mocked anarchos using the lazy 'smelly dogs on strings dreadlocks' sort of stuff before, it doesn't mean anarchist is now that by definition. It has a precise meaning and the reaction of liberals to being called so is also as fluff as when thick right wingers use it to describe anything left of pinochet. The reason why when socialists use it is to describe a distinct socio-politcal tradition it is taken as insult between leftists is because any sane person who calls themselves a socialists would abhor what that blood soaked tradition proved capable of. It's an insult to intelligence and morality in that context. Its not even an insult in those terms, its a description of someones politics. I'd take badly to being called liberal. Call yourself a liberal and it's a-ok cos thats what it is, liberalism is accepted as the good guys. Call yourself socialist and you are meant to apologise for the holodomor and the katyn massacre.


I don't know why this bristling (not you particularly) over the correct use of the word has become so contentious recently, I can only assume its cos of brexit and trump.
 
DotCommunist said:
it means the same as it did then and the mockery of social accoutrements associated with the tradition today is irrelevant. I've mocked anarchos using the lazy 'smelly dogs on strings dreadlocks' sort of stuff before, it doesn't mean anarchist is now that by definition. It has a precise meaning and the reaction of liberals to being called so is also as fluff as when thick right wingers use it to describe anything left of pinochet. The reason why when socialists use it is to describe a distinct socio-politcal tradition it is taken as insult between leftists is because any sane person who calls themselves a socialists would abhor what that blood soaked tradition proved capable of. It's an insult to intelligence and morality in that context. Its not even an insult in those terms, its a description of someones politics. I'd take badly to being called liberal. Call yourself a liberal and it's a-ok cos thats what it is, liberalism is accepted as the good guys. Call yourself socialist and you are meant to apologise for the holodomor and the katyn massacre.


I don't know why this bristling (not you particularly) over the correct use of the word has become so contentious recently, I can only assume its cos of brexit and trump.
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It's an interesting and complicated business, political labels. My issue with it is that it all quickly becomes tribal. At which point the frontal cortex is deactivated and its limbic system all the way.

Liberal as opposed to illiberal, is surely a good thing. Liberal in this sense is tolerant and permissive. I would consider myself liberal in that sense.

Of course there is liberal as in centrist and mildly reforming/placating of the worst excesses of capitalism - but siding with capitalists when the chips are down. I can see why such people (both in power and in support) are viewed so dimly by leftists.

My issue with that is that I am a leftist but also a reformist (in that I am anti revolutionary). There is a wide spectrum of reformist, that would all be called liberal by some revolutionaries and be called revolutionary by some centrist.

The right is a broad movement because it triggers a fairly consistent emotional response. The left is an archipelago of unaffiliated and mutually hostile groups who start from an intellectual position but then drop into the same emotional response pitfalls.
 
Idaho said:
My issue with that is that I am a leftist but also a reformist (in that I am anti revolutionary). There is a wide spectrum of reformist, that would all be called liberal by some revolutionaries and be called revolutionary by some centrist.
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what say ye about the good ship corbyn? I can't in good conscience vote labour and it is supposed to be party not leader we vote for.
 
Rime of the Ancient Mariner, with Toe Nibbler as the Albatross-killing narrator

''God save thee, ancient Mariner,
From the fiends that plague thee thus!
Why look'st thou so?''
...with my cross-bow I shot the Albatross.
 
DotCommunist said:
what say ye about the good ship corbyn? I can't in good conscience vote labour and it is supposed to be party not leader we vote for.
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It's like having a lifetime of being promised a chocolate bar, and all this time being either given a dried turd or a muesli bar. Corbyn is probably a stale bourbon biscuit.

But that's politics, and that's one of the problems I can't reconcile. We all say that we won't play the game because the rules are bent and everyone else cheats - as if we can wait it out until some magic changes it all.
 
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