Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Privileged people calling less privileged people "stupid" doesn't seem to be working...

Mutiny on the Bounty :(

Popularity would surge if Corbyn and McDonnell put on a pirate themed panto.

McDonnell - 'Aha me hearties, 'tis that blaggard Cap'n Farage! We'll keel-haul the scoundrel til Davy Jones take his soul!'
Corbyn - 'Why are pirates called 'pirates'?'
McDonnell - Why so matey?
Corbyn - Because they aaaarrrgghh.
 
watermutiny.jpg

"Prosseco you say? You'll take this fine sparkling English Blanc de Blancs 2019 and like it!"
 
That's not too difficult to answer. Social and economic mobility increased massively over the first couple of decades. Literacy rates increased and a number of other measures improved. Russia went from a medieval feudal society, to an industrial one.

Quite right. I would also like to add that it was CPSU members who suffered the most during the Great Purges and they tended to be concentrated in urban areas. Rural areas were actually one of the safer places to be during the Great Purges.
 
That's not too difficult to answer. Social and economic mobility increased massively over the first couple of decades. Literacy rates increased and a number of other measures improved. Russia went from a medieval feudal society, to an industrial one.

Indeed. And went to a state of tyranny. We are stressing about the Regulatory Powers Bill, to to the poor fuckers of the USSR, it would seem quite liberal.
 
Indeed. And went to a state of tyranny. We are stressing about the Regulatory Powers Bill, to to the poor fuckers of the USSR, it would seem quite liberal.
Yeah it was no picnic. But you have to take into account that the ussr was being converted from a feudal, agrarian society to a modern industrial one. Something that took 100 years in britain, with no shortage of tyranny, brutality and misery. They did it in 20. And within 40 had sent the first man into space.
 
Yes, but a better tyranny. See what horrible paths lesser-evilism leads you down...
What other choice is there? Whatever system or leader a society adopts, it will only be, at best, someone's lesser evil.

Although you could tell everyone that it's the perfect society and kill/imprison/exile anyone who says otherwise. That works for a while.
 
Last edited:
On Political Violence @ A Glance What the Iranian Revolution Can Teach Us About the US Presidential Election
...
But this shift also reflected a class divide. Wealthier Iranians were convinced that they stood for progress and development. The urban poor and the rural masses, however, still saw their world through the lens of traditional morality. Religious virtue, established gender norms, and a social order based on Iranian values of generosity, humility, and family honor were unquestioned. These groups were anxious and uncertain about the changes going on around them, and longed for a simpler time in which right and wrong were clearly laid out before them.

These two forces in Iranian society viewed each other with a mixture of fear, contempt, and outright hostility. The urban, wealthy elite saw the traditional classes as being ignorant and backwards. The word for villager—dahati—became synonymous with stupid. Religion and clerical authorities were seen as relics of an bygone era. For their part, the less-educated, conservative elements of society saw the so-called modernizers as immoral, decadent, and arrogant. They were the gharbzadeh—those intoxicated with the West. They had abandoned centuries of tradition – not to mention their Islamic faith – and turned their backs on the values of their grandparents.

The Iranian revolution was a monumental political shift, but it was also a clash between these two cultures. The modernizers were dumbfounded. They could not see – nor did they particularly care to see – the real sense of frustration among the lower classes. The traditionalists felt vindicated by the toppling of the Shah and put their faith in Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, a leader who stood up to the liberal elite in the name of what they believed to be a moral, just society. They marched in the streets by the thousands, voting with their bodies for radical change.
...
Mr Brexit++
Facebook-Quotes-30974-statusmind.com.jpg
 
Yeah it was no picnic. But you have to take into account that the ussr was being converted from a feudal, agrarian society to a modern industrial one. Something that took 100 years in britain, with no shortage of tyranny, brutality and misery. They did it in 20. And within 40 had sent the first man into space.
Yeh. Ahistorical bollocks. 20. 40. pity you're forgetting the industrialisation which occurred prior to 1917, or doesn't that count.
 
I am sorry to anger you so much on this very sensitive and personal topic Pickman's model. All I can do is extend my heart felt apologies.

I'm more than happy to be corrected on errors or omissions in my historical analysis. But rather than turning everything into a pride filled bunfight, could we keep it, if not civil, at least just slightly frosty - rather than angry Internet ranting.
 
Last edited:
Quite right. I would also like to add that it was CPSU members who suffered the most during the Great Purges and they tended to be concentrated in urban areas. Rural areas were actually one of the safer places to be during the Great Purges.

The terror wasn't just the purging of the bureaucracy though, it was much wider. I've already posted this a few times before, but to give some scale to the bloodshed the majority of the nearly three quarters of a million people who were executed in the short space of two years (according to official records, and when the 'mass operations' were in full swing) were 'ordinary' people. Plenty more over the years were sent to prisons or forced labour camps.

That's not too difficult to answer. Social and economic mobility increased massively over the first couple of decades. Literacy rates increased and a number of other measures improved. Russia went from a medieval feudal society, to an industrial one.

Social mobility increased in a short space of time, with opportunities created by the industrialisation drive but what did it consist of? And for the peasant majority in the 1930s it was forced dispossession and eventual transformation into either rural or urban proletarians. Massive upheaval, mass violence and awful poverty.
 
I am sorry to anger you so much on this very sensitive and personal topic Pickman's model. All I can do is extend my heart felt apologies.

I'm more than happy to be corrected on errors or omissions in my historical analysis. But rather than turning everything into a pride filled bunfight, could we keep it, if not civil, at least just slightly frosty - rather than angry Internet ranting.
Yeh. now, the industrialisation which took place under the romanovs...
 
The terror wasn't just the purging of the bureaucracy though, it was much wider. I've already posted this a few times before, but to give some scale to the bloodshed the majority of the nearly three quarters of a million people who were executed in the short space of two years (according to official records, and when the 'mass operations' were in full swing) were 'ordinary' people. Plenty more over the years were sent to prisons or forced labour camps.



Social mobility increased in a short space of time, with opportunities created by the industrialisation drive but what did it consist of? And for the peasant majority in the 1930s it was forced dispossession and eventual transformation into either rural or urban proletarians. Massive upheaval, mass violence and awful poverty.
Oh ffs. I was only trying to provide some countervailing material to the orthodoxy that the Russian revolution and the Bolsheviks produced mindless crushing tyranny on a previously noble and just system where happy well fed peasants doffed their hats to honourable aristocrats. I'm the last person in the world to glory in the revolution.
 
Oh ffs. I was only trying to provide some countervailing material to the orthodoxy that the Russian revolution and the Bolsheviks produced mindless crushing tyranny on a previously noble and just system where happy well fed peasants doffed their hats to honourable aristocrats. I'm the last person in the world to glory in the revolution.
Who has claimed the ancien regime noble and just?
 
Yeh. now, the industrialisation which took place under the romanovs...
You tell us about it. :)

Not saying you're wrong. You're very clearly not wrong - Russia started industrialising in the late 19th C. But to what extent does Idaho's error in not acknowledging this make his subsequent reasoning wrong? So the question here is 'how had industrialisation in Russia progressed by 1917, and what challenges did it still face when the dust settled after the civil war'? How did Stalin's policies advance industrialisation, and what was the base he was working from? How did that base compare to the bases in other countries, and how did his progress compare?

If you're going to nitpick, at least enter a positive contribution.
 
Oh ffs. I was only trying to provide some countervailing material to the orthodoxy that the Russian revolution and the Bolsheviks produced mindless crushing tyranny on a previously noble and just system where happy well fed peasants doffed their hats to honourable aristocrats. I'm the last person in the world to glory in the revolution.

I'm not aware of this orthodoxy. Perhaps one of the 'good' things about the 1930s was that you could get your boss killed.
 
You tell us about it. :)

Not saying you're wrong. You're very clearly not wrong - Russia started industrialising in the late 19th C. But to what extent does Idaho's error in not acknowledging this make his subsequent reasoning wrong? So the question here is 'how had industrialisation in Russia progressed by 1917, and what challenges did it still face when the dust settled after the civil war'? How did Stalin's policies advance industrialisation, and what was the base he was working from? How did that base compare to the bases in other countries, and how did his progress compare?

If you're going to nitpick, at least enter a positive contribution.
I did. I pointed out his description of Russian/Soviet industrialisation omitted everything prior to 1917. it's not like Russia had no prior industrialisation - but it is frequently forgotten. but as subsequent posts showed Idaho needs to return to the history books before continuing to contribute to this thread
 
There are people on the right that will acknowledge no good coming from the Russian revolution. That the whole process and its aftermath was retrograde and destructive.

The idea of getting your boss killed might sound very punk rock - but must have been terrible. The vindictiveness, the scores settled, the blackmail.
 
Back
Top Bottom