Potential effect of Scottish Independence on the rest of the Common Travel Area

[Pickman's model]

Are you done?

Oh very droll

 

[JuanTwoThree]

A pun (ponne) done by Donne

"John Donne, Anne Donne, un-done"

when they were separated

 

[Pickman's model]

A pun (ponne) done by Donne

"John Donne, Anne Donne, un-done"

when they were separated

But now redone

 

[Border Reiver]

I don't think England,Wales,and Northern Ireland with a population of 60m? Could be described as 'Rump Uk' .

And independence is rarely , if ever, an economic argument , in this scenario , the only country that would have an economic argument for independence is England.

It can but probably should not as United Kingdom only applies to Scotland and England together in origin. Neither Wales nor Northern Ireland were modern kingdoms.

 

[Border Reiver]

Yes you're right but so what?
Assuming that the SNP sticks to the manifesto it published during Indyref 1 at the moment of independence any person living in Scotland either born there or habitually resident become a Scottish citizen, any person living outside Scotland but born there is also a Scottish citizen.
If they were not born there but have one parent or grandparent born there they can register with the Scottish Embassy (once one is up and running) as a Scottish citizen.
These are the current rules operated by both the UK and Eire and the SNP has said it would adopt them into Scottish Law as would be the right of an Independent Scotland
Under British Law anyone who currently has a British passport (which is pretty much everyone in Scotland at the moment) would keep it. Their children and grandchildren born in an independent Scotland would be eligible to register as a British citizen under British law which is nothing to do with Scotland but is British law (though being dual citizens now, Priti can strip them of it for terrorism).
British citizens can unsurprisingly come and go into Britain as they choose, regardless of what other citizenships they hold.
Any third generation Scot born after independence will not have that right and will be purely a Scottish citizen however since UK rights to claim end at the third generation.
However Irish citizens currently have the right to enter, live in and work in the UK purely on their Irish passports I would imagine indeed I am certain that right will be extended to purely Scottish passport holders. Why shouldn't it and why are you bothered?

The point is that England cannot afford a failed state to its North so would have to negotiate exit from a position of potential risk.

 

[Border Reiver]

And lube. Or its non anachronistic equivalent

Should discussions about Scottish, Welsh, Cornish etc independence be in 'UK politics'? For the time being I suppose so.

It is about the effect on England (Wales and NI).

 

[Border Reiver]

The pile on came after dubious posting behaviour, not before. He arrived, got straight into the newest Terf war thread, then tried to get people to say they were in favour of direct action and civil disobedience.

At the moment, you may be aware of protests under the aegis of “kill the bill”. Meaning “put a stop to the legislation which will criminalise protest and the gypsy Roma traveller lifestyle”. Cop chiefs are trying to spin that as meaning “kill police officers” as in “kill the Old Bill” (as if anyone says that), in order to turn public sympathy against the protests.

In a well publicised incident, they were filmed and photographed rearranging a banner that said “kill the spy cops Bill” to say “kill cops”.

View attachment 261824

This comically poorly informed joker turns up on here trying to get people to say they are in favour of public disorder.

He is getting short shrift.

You may have thought but I did not reference the current shit-show in England (it does not spread to Scotland as public order and policing is devolved). Public disorder is one possible route to Independence that may become necessary. It was posted in the Scotland forum IIRC.

 

[Border Reiver]

No, it's just that most people think you're a right cunt

Onto ignore.

 

[danny la rouge]

You may have thought but I did not reference the current shit-show in England (it does not spread to Scotland as public order and policing is devolved). Public disorder is one possible route to Independence that may become necessary. It was posted in the Scotland forum IIRC.

Is my invisibility cloak not working?

 

[marty21]

It can but probably should not as United Kingdom only applies to Scotland and England together in origin. Neither Wales nor Northern Ireland were modern kingdoms.

Even if England was the only state left in the UK , it would not be a rump state. Although there wouldn't be a UK then. And if economy was the only thing that was important for state change , we wouldn't have brexited.

 

[Border Reiver]

Even if England was the only state left in the UK , it would not be a rump state. Although there wouldn't be a UK then. And if economy was the only thing that was important for state change , we wouldn't have brexited.

What do you think Rump UK should be called them? Not UK nor GB. Greater England?

 

[marty21]

What do you think Rump UK should be called them? Not UK nor GB. Greater England?

If England left the UK , then there would be a rump state which would currently include the rest , 10m or so population. England should them revive the saxon/viking kingdoms , and then sub-divide into mini nations .

 

[eatmorecheese]

What do you think Rump UK should be called them? Not UK nor GB. Greater England?

F.U.K. (Former United Kingdom)

 

[MickiQ]

The point is that England cannot afford a failed state to its North so would have to negotiate exit from a position of potential risk.

Scotland has a GDP (both just over $200bn) and a population (5.45m vs 4.72m) that is comparable to that of New Zealand, Clearly it will never be a major influence on the world stage but failed state is just being plain daft.

 

[MickiQ]

If England left the UK , then there would be a rump state which would currently include the rest , 10m or so population. England should them revive the saxon/viking kingdoms , and then sub-divide into mini nations .

I definitely want my Mercian passport

 

[Border Reiver]

Scotland has a GDP (both just over $200bn) and a population (5.45m vs 4.72m) that is comparable to that of New Zealand, Clearly it will never be a major influence on the world stage but failed state is just being plain daft.

To listen to little Englanders refrain of "Too wee and too poor".

 

[marty21]

I definitely want my Mercian passport

I might have to return to Wessex

 

[Sue]

I might have to return to Wessex

You'll be expelled to Wessex more like.

 

[NoXion]

Surely an independent Scotland could make friends with a newly-minted Republic of Northumbria?

 

[Serge Forward]

I definitely want my Murcian passport

They're still using the Spanish one.

 

[Border Reiver]

Surely an independent Scotland could make friends with a newly-minted Republic of Northumbria?

I find the idea of devolved power in England wryly amusing. I remember Redcliffe Maud (I just binned the original Cmnd papers last year) and subsequent failures to devolve any real power from Westminster.

 

[marty21]

You'll be expelled to Wessex more like.

I'll be pushing my cart & chattels along the M4

 

[kebabking]

Surely an independent Scotland could make friends with a newly-minted Republic of Northumbria?

Depends on whether Northumbria fancies recovering the old Bernician heartlands - Northumbria could go for a twin-capital approach, York and Edinburgh.

Not quite sure how that would go down Scotch-wise, and whether that would allow for friendly relations...

 

[Shechemite]

This is a final warning for some posters that the P&P section exists, mainly, for the discussion of sausages.

The antisemitism of the left raises it’s ugly head once more

 

[Sue]

The antisemitism of the left raises it’s ugly once more

We're also covering veggie sausages.

 

[JimW]

Untied Kingdom, could recycle the current lettering.

 

[Pickman's model]

I find the idea of devolved power in England wryly amusing. I remember Redcliffe Maud (I just binned the original Cmnd papers last year) and subsequent failures to devolve any real power from Westminster.

thus undermining the claim you make elsewhere that since 1955 tory governments have not held power in scotland.

you're a big man, no doubt, but you're in bad shape

 

[steeplejack]

whereas for you urban is a full time job

 

[A380]

All you Johny-come-lateys so proud to be ignored. I've been ignored by him twice - because he walked in my trap*.

(*A trap admittedly as un-cunning as Big Jock McNaive's winning plan at the transparent and bleeding obvious plans national competition 1976.)

 

[A380]

Depends on whether Northumbria fancies recovering the old Bernician heartlands - Northumbria could go for a twin-capital approach, York and Edinburgh.

Not quite sure how that would go down Scotch-wise, and whether that would allow for friendly relations...

York would be part of Greater Mercia within 72 hours of the allied Merican and East Anglian troops crossing the Trent.