krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
I refer you to my previous post.
People getting racially abused because of the referendum result
- Thread starter bi0boy
- Start date
I refer you to my previous post.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Let's just make it properly fucking clear that I was not saying anything of the sort: the fact that you want to make that kind of point says a lot more about the validity of your argument than those you're criticising.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I was around in the 1970s. I'm well aware of the tenor of the racism of the time.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Your post suggested that that what is happening here was similar to the situation in 20s/30s Germany. You literally did that comparison.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
so you think there is no difference between someone saying something offensive and stabbing someone? It's all the same thing?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What does this say about the poster btw? He's a long term anti-fascist whose had a whole load more of grief for it than most posters here.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
I refer you to my previous posts. Racism is racism. It's all vile and those who engage in it should be packed off to the gulags.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
To a camp under the administration of Gulag.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I prefer to argue with those with soft racist ideas, to win them over. And to introduce the other lot to the pavement.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Ok what was it then?
Treacle Toes
Time
Soft racism? What is that?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
To me, soft racism is where people are nice to your face, when in fact they don't approve of you because of your race.
'Hard racism', is cops shooting you when you reach for your wallet, being attacked verbally or physically in the street, crosses burned on your lawn, etc.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Interesting article/blog? here
I Recorded The Racist Things People Said & Did To Me For 2 Weeks
All this talk of "soft" racism makes me think of when my cousin and her daughter went to get a driving license and the woman behind the counter said to the daughter that they couldn't be related (different skin colour, different surnames)
The woman couldn't understand why my cousin was so pissed off.
I Recorded The Racist Things People Said & Did To Me For 2 Weeks
All this talk of "soft" racism makes me think of when my cousin and her daughter went to get a driving license and the woman behind the counter said to the daughter that they couldn't be related (different skin colour, different surnames)
The woman couldn't understand why my cousin was so pissed off.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The stupid things people say out of ignorance (I mean real ignorance, actual not knowing), that they probably don't mean to be offensive, even tho it is. They don't hate black people, just know nothing about them (and may well think of them as one homogenous 'them'). It's a mistake, imo, to just lump them in with the hardcore BNP types
Treacle Toes
Time
What you are comparing are the actions of racists and their behaviours\ the possible outcomes, from dishonest cowards to violent thugs. Racism is the motivation, that doesn't change.
Last edited:
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think there's a lot of merit to both of those definitions. And by both definitions, none of the incidents we're talking about on this thread is 'soft racism'.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I'm comparing the effects of racism. It's one thing to be served last in a restaurant, or to have someone look at you with distaste, for no obvious reason[apart from your skin color]. It's another to be shot for being black at the wrong time or place, to be brutalized by police, to be attacked by skinheads etc.
Neither is acceptable. But, while I detest being the victim of 'soft' racism, I live in fear for myself or those close to me becoming the victim of 'hard' racism.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Nope, I don't get this thing of sticking racist behaviours in neat boxes - one labeled "mild" and the other "hard," one annoying but harmless, the other a big deal. It's not like there are only two extremes with plenty fresh air in between, or some objective way of deciding what's okay and what's not.
It's more like a continuum. The difference between behaviour at one point and the next step along may seem too small to make much difference. That's how behaviours deemed to be "acceptable" can creep towards the more extreme end without being massively noticeable. The more people do stuff seen as "no big shakes" without any sanction, the more they'll push the boundaries towards that more extreme end.
Anybody familiar with Allport's Scale of Oppression? It's still really simplified and the layers overlap and can depend on context, but shows how actions can escalate given the right circumstances and if not challenged
Thinking about it, the only "benefit" I can think of trying to split behaviours into "no big deal" and "big deal" is it gives the people not affected by racism the excuse to dismiss and ignore the experiences of those who DO, so long as they can argue those experiences fit in the "no big deal" box. Lovely.
It's more like a continuum. The difference between behaviour at one point and the next step along may seem too small to make much difference. That's how behaviours deemed to be "acceptable" can creep towards the more extreme end without being massively noticeable. The more people do stuff seen as "no big shakes" without any sanction, the more they'll push the boundaries towards that more extreme end.
Anybody familiar with Allport's Scale of Oppression? It's still really simplified and the layers overlap and can depend on context, but shows how actions can escalate given the right circumstances and if not challenged
Thinking about it, the only "benefit" I can think of trying to split behaviours into "no big deal" and "big deal" is it gives the people not affected by racism the excuse to dismiss and ignore the experiences of those who DO, so long as they can argue those experiences fit in the "no big deal" box. Lovely.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Who has said that any racism is 'no big deal'?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Actually, belboid referred to 'soft' racist ideas; Rutita questioned what 'soft' racism was; and then I commented.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
fair dos. belboid didn't call anything 'harmless' either, mind.
felixthecat
are we there yet?
All this talk of "soft" racism makes me think of when my cousin and her daughter went to get a driving license and the woman behind the counter said to the daughter that they couldn't be related (different skin colour, different surnames)
The woman couldn't understand why my cousin was so pissed off.
I was once asked if my son was adopted - me being white and blonde and my son looking like a Pacific Islander thanks to his father's complex genetics.
I was more shocked than pissed off at the time tbh
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I don't think either is harmless.
This is a version of any 'lesser of two evils' type question. Eg: which would you prefer - a broken leg or a caved-in skull?
Personally, I'd rather have a broken leg: but both are bad, and ideally, I'd prefer to have neither.
Both 'evils' are evil: one is just the lesser of two evils.
This is a version of any 'lesser of two evils' type question. Eg: which would you prefer - a broken leg or a caved-in skull?
Personally, I'd rather have a broken leg: but both are bad, and ideally, I'd prefer to have neither.
Both 'evils' are evil: one is just the lesser of two evils.
Treacle Toes
Time
I don't agree with the use of terms like 'soft' or 'hard' racism. For me what you are comparing are the effects of racism/the possible behaviours of people who are racist which of course can be a range of hurtful, offensive, abusive and/or fatal depending on the context and who that person is.
My point here is that to conflate the effects of racism, with the motivation (that someone is racist) which doesn't change, and create a hierarchy in the way that both directly and indirectly feeds the narrative that over the course of my lifetime has given us such dismissive gems as:
Sticks and stones...
It's only words...
You should count yourself lucky because in x place...
Grow a thicker skin...
It could be worse...
It's no big deal...
What you making such a fuss about...
The focus being shifted away from the perpetrator onto the victim. The responsibility also. Racist attitudes/behaviours are 'normalised' and become acceptable as a result.
Last edited:
NoBystander
New Member
More likely because he is middle class with all the entitlement that comes with it. Does the point have to be framed in those terms for it to be taken seriously?
Diminishment and division are tools of the other side in the class war. To pretend that race is something else that is of no interest to the working class is to invite defeat by diminishing and dividing the forces you need on your side.
"the Brexit vote is being used to demonize the white proletariat"
"how did we get into such a state that using the word "chinky" is considered a crime against humanity?"
"If that photo of the nf in Newcastle was taken in the 80s there would be at least 40 of them, not 4."
"the poles here can mostly look after themselves physically"
"I don't think its a nationalism issue as such, just people feeling they have been abandoned by the political process"
"mild racism"
"trivial acts"
"how did we get into such a state that using the word "chinky" is considered a crime against humanity?"
"If that photo of the nf in Newcastle was taken in the 80s there would be at least 40 of them, not 4."
"the poles here can mostly look after themselves physically"
"I don't think its a nationalism issue as such, just people feeling they have been abandoned by the political process"
"mild racism"
"trivial acts"
CRI
Registered Chooser
This, this absolutely all of this.
In the same vein, this thread includes scores of posts discussing Smirnoff Ice retail packaging and debating the length of time required for consumption followed by pages speculating which painting implements were used to graffiti the Polish Community Centre, what was written and whether photos were 'shopped.
Why put so much bloody effort into deconstructing these two examples among hundreds and hundreds of accounts of racist and xenophobic incidents in the run up and after the EU referendum? By "deconstructing" I mean "discrediting." You know, that minimising, denying and blaming stuff.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Yep, these are the latest additions to the list from Rutita1 above.
For what it's worth, I found this analysis interesting It's NOT the economy, stupid: Brexit as a story of personal values
Yeah, I know.
"Not all Brexiters . . . "
Similar threads
