People getting racially abused because of the referendum result

[SpookyFrank]

I hope she'll take some comfort from knowing that some people are prepared to speak up, but it's a pretty shitty state of affairs when she or any other foreigner will be thinking of people in terms of which side they're on.

This is why I'm a bit worried about this idea of wearing a safety pin or whatever to say, 'I'm a nice person, I'm not going to tell you to fuck off home because of your accent or your skin colour'. Every time you see a safety pin you're going to think about why people feel they need to wear them, it's going to be a reminder that there are people who do pose a threat. I think this runs the risk of giving the bullies and thugs even more power in the minds of those they would abuse and intimidate.

Whether or not we've seen overt racist abuse in the last few weeks, we've all heard about it. The fact that it is being reported so widely is good in one sense, if it leads to awareness of the problem and real action to stop it, but media coverage will also amplify the psychological effect of these incidents. Not only will this give more people cause to be afraid but it could also put ideas in people's heads and help encourage more of this kind of abuse.

I completely understand the mindset behind the safety pin thing, the desire to make some kind of positive statement to counteract all this shitty behaviour. The problem I have with it is that whether the 'native' white English person is vowing to defend you or vowing to have you deported, in either case they are placing themselves above you in some way. People shouldn't have to feel that anyone is allowing them to live in the place that's already their home. A person's sense of safety should not come from benevolent white people saying nice things but from actually, you know, being safe.

Make the racists wear a badge instead, if they're so fucking proud. A badge or some kind of ceremonial clothing, like an ambulance or a coffin.

 

[Anju]

Tbh blm is addressing our own problems

To an extent yes but our society is very different to the US. The only comparable incidents that come to mind are the bit of wood in a carrier bag shooting in Hakney years ago, the gun shaped lighter in, I think Brixton and Jean Charles de Menezes. There have been death in custody cases as well but overall, and with the aparemt impact of the Brexit vote I think we need a broader focus in any political or direct action combating racism / xenophobia.

 

[existentialist]

To an extent yes but our society is very different to the US. The only comparable incidents that come to mind are the bit of wood in a carrier bag shooting in Hakney years ago, the gun shaped lighter in, I think Brixton and Jean Charles de Menezes. There have been death in custody cases as well but overall, and with the aparemt impact of the Brexit vote I think we need a broader focus in any political or direct action combating racism / xenophobia.

I think the problem here is rather worse than you paint it there, although I accept that it's nowhere near on the scale it is in the US. It may be just that arms are not as prevalent here, but a lot of the structural racism and discrimination is still in evidence: just ask any young black male who likes to drive a nice car.

 

[Anju]

I think the problem here is rather worse than you paint it there, although I accept that it's nowhere near on the scale it is in the US. It may be just that arms are not as prevalent here, but a lot of the structural racism and discrimination is still in evidence: just ask any young black male who likes to drive a nice car.

I am not saying the problem is any less serious, just different. My brother in Law got rid of his nice car after being stopped many times. The last incident involved him being beaten and then charged with assaulting the police. When he picked his car up they had spat all over the interior. I have a friend who was stopped so many times after buying a convertible BMW that he sold it. I have even witnessed the police harass a black friend for not having his car. This was about 28 years ago and we were stood at a bus stop in Camden. He was well known to the police, through repeated traffic stops, a police car pulled up and one of the people inside said "where's your car you fat coon".

I know two people who have died because their medical conditions, heart defect, were not diagnosed. Both were black men and had suffered blackouts. Neither took drugs but both were questioned about drug use and sent away without any further investigation.

I still think we need a different approach here that will address a broader range of issues.

 

[existentialist]

I still think we need a different approach here that will address a broader range of issues.

And I agree: but - as ever - the most important bit of any approach is whether or not it's getting applied at the grass roots level. Which is why people doing what Zapp Brannigan described earlier is so important. Sure, there's political and ideological change to do, too, but history tells us that such change usually trails public attitudes rather than leading them. So let's get the public attitudes stuff rolling - and, TBF, that probably does tend to fall to those who are not the usual targets of racists and twats, namely white people. Nice to have something to do about it apart from handwringing!

 

[Pickman's model]

To an extent yes but our society is very different to the US. The only comparable incidents that come to mind are the bit of wood in a carrier bag shooting in Hakney years ago, the gun shaped lighter in, I think Brixton and Jean Charles de Menezes. There have been death in custody cases as well but overall, and with the aparemt impact of the Brexit vote I think we need a broader focus in any political or direct action combating racism / xenophobia.

Smiley Culture
Diarmuid O'Neil
Harry Stanley
Mark Duggan

You seem to be ignorant of or to have forgotten the work done by London black revs round e.g. Mike Brown in Ferguson supportive of the US blm, United friends and family campaign and inquest round deaths in police custody in this country

 

[Anju]

Smiley Culture
Diarmuid O'Neil
Harry Stanley
Mark Duggan

You seem to be ignorant of or to have forgotten the work done by London black revs round e.g. Mike Brown in Ferguson supportive of the US blm, United friends and family campaign and inquest round deaths in police custody

Sorry, I was not aware it was a contest to list police atrocities.

I was just mentioning incidents that came to mind and suggesting any action in the UK would need to be different from that in the US. We are very different places with a different set of issues affecting people on the street, though in terms of institutional racism we are much closer but probably have less layers of organisation to get through.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry, I was not aware it was a contest to list police atrocities.

I was just mentioning incidents that came to mind and suggesting any action in the UK would need to be different from that in the US. We are very different places with a different set of issues affecting people on the street, though in terms of institutional racism we are much closer but probably have less layers of organisation to get through.

Not a contest, simply listing a few of the more notable including ones you alluded to. Blm has had some resonance in the UK, and while we fortunately don't have so many police killings the basic issues are in many ways similar.

 

[Anju]

Not a contest, simply listing a few of the more notable including ones you alluded to. Blm has had some resonance in the UK, and while we fortunately don't have so many police killings the basic issues are in many ways similar.

So sort of what I said only you think we are closer to the US than I do.

 

[Pickman's model]

So sort of what I said only you think we are closer to the US than I do.

No I think the basic issues are in many ways similar

 

[Celyn]

...
Make the racists wear a badge instead, if they're so fucking proud. A badge or some kind of ceremonial clothing, like an ambulance or a coffin.

But the racists don't wear badges. Things might be simpler it they did.

Oh hell, I just don't know what to do.

 

[existentialist]

But the racists don't wear badges. Things might be simpler it they did.

Oh hell, I just don't know what to do.

We can use our safety pins to pin the racist's badge on.

 

[teqniq]

 

[Skyfallsz]

what about white people getting racially abused by the newspapers for voting leave

eh? eh?

look at me mother, am I not clever?

 

[ViolentPanda]

To an extent yes but our society is very different to the US. The only comparable incidents that come to mind are the bit of wood in a carrier bag shooting in Hakney years ago, the gun shaped lighter in, I think Brixton and Jean Charles de Menezes. There have been death in custody cases as well but overall, and with the aparemt impact of the Brexit vote I think we need a broader focus in any political or direct action combating racism / xenophobia.

We're not so different, except in degree. The US constitution (the Freedom of Speech provision) gives succour to racism in a way that ours doesn't (because it has no actual Freedom of Speech provision). In terms of structural and institutional racism, unemployment and criminalisation rates are both forever heading upward.

It's only the historic non-arming of the police that has meant we haven't seen a lot more murder-by-cop cases in the UK over the last 65 years, IMO. It's harder to beat someone to death, than to shoot them. I don't agree that a broader focus is needed. I'd say a narrower focus is required - one concentrated on structural and institutional racism and xenophobic attitudes. Remove that, and you also remove a lot of perpetuating factors, from "canteen culture" to misanthropy.

 

[existentialist]

what about white people getting racially abused by the newspapers for voting leave

eh? eh?

look at me mother, am I not clever?

Jolly good...

 

[Pickman's model]

what about white people getting racially abused by the newspapers for voting leave

eh? eh?

look at me mother, am I not clever?

If you have to ask for validation you already know the answer

 

[Treacle Toes]

Barac Zita
2 hrs ·
Horrified that having just left the canvassing teams for Anamul Islam at Labour West Ham offices to go to Trafalgar Square & speak at a rally Uniting against Hate some of our team have been subjected to racial abuse & attacked with bottles & rushed to hospital. Glad the fascists responsible were caught.

 

[CRI]

This is great advice for anyone who wants to be prepared to intervene if they see racist, or any other, abuse.

View attachment 89301

 

[CRI]

Ovewhelming urge to kick his skinny, smelly white ass into next Thursday for this stunt. I've seen it posted all over the shop credited to Paul O'Connor from Swansea. Earned him a shedload of "Lookie Lookie, I'm a great white ally" cookies, passing off a young woman of colour's experience and ideas as his own. Special place in Hell for bastards like that I hope.

 

[Anju]

Structural racism is systematic denial of access to education, healthcare, employment and other rights based on their race. The above is a Facebook post that has gone viral and it seems the guy that posted it has more friends, possibly more keen to share the post than the original author has.

 

[CRI]

Structural racism is systematic denial of access to education, healthcare, employment and other rights based on their race. The above is a Facebook post that has gone viral and it seems the guy that posted it has more friends, possibly more keen to share the post than the original author has.

He COULD have shared her post, at least attributing the experience and idea to her. He could have contacted her, said he liked it, asked if he could share it with his mahoosive following and that he would give her credit. It's not like that's a hard thing to do. From the discussion on her timeline, she DID want the post to be shared more widely. She's not happy that some white guy snatched her words verbatim, passed them off as his own and hasn't even apologised.

To be fair, when I read it, it was hard to match the picture of the guy in the icon with the story of talking to the young Qatari woman. Just seemed a bit creepy. Now it makes sense why.

He knew what he was doing. He was happy to shit on a young brown woman's head for ally cookies, for a bloated ego, maybe a few journo gigs, I dunno. If he genuinely gives a shit about racism, he wouldn't have pulled this stunt.

 

[Anju]

He COULD have shared her post, at least attributing the experience and idea to her. He could have contacted her, said he liked it, asked if he could share it with his mahoosive following and that he would give her credit. It's not like that's a hard thing to do. From the discussion on her timeline, she DID want the post to be shared more widely. She's not happy that some white guy snatched her words verbatim, passed them off as his own and hasn't even apologised.

To be fair, when I read it, it was hard to match the picture of the guy in the icon with the story of talking to the young Qatari woman. Just seemed a bit creepy. Now it makes sense why.

He knew what he was doing. He was happy to shit on a young brown woman's head for ally cookies, for a bloated ego, maybe a few journo gigs, I dunno. If he genuinely gives a shit about racism, he wouldn't have pulled this stunt.

Maybe he copied it from a forum and passed it on in good faith because he thought it was sound advice. If he had the intention of passing it off as his own words surely he would have just re written it, which would have been easy.

I have no idea what ally cookies are. I just asked a couple of friends and neither do they, so I suppose it is possible he does not either. The original author seems very upset about not getting credit and makes some very unpleasant assumptions about someone who could equally have just been well intentioned. She has done a bit on an Anju.

Most people do not see Facebook posts as a route to fame and / or fortune, either cash or cookies. They are just passing things to friends. I got his post via Facebook, shared by a friend from an anti racist page. Not really his fault it went viral.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

dunno really - I don't do farcebook.

and not entirely sure i can read all that much in to anyone's motives. it could be chance that the second posting was seen by someone who was able to give it more publicity.

but if i see something elsewhere i like and re-post it (for example) on urban, I would be inclined to post something like

"I saw this on [wherever]" and post a link, not just copy-paste it to look as if it was my original thought...

 

[CRI]

dunno really - I don't do farcebook.

and not entirely sure i can read all that much in to anyone's motives. it could be chance that the second posting was seen by someone who was able to give it more publicity.

but if i see something elsewhere i like and re-post it (for example) on urban, I would be inclined to post something like

"I saw this on [wherever]" and post a link, not just copy-paste it to look as if it was my original thought...

This ^ Common courtesy, surely.

From what I can see, he's got hundreds of followers, big in anti-fracking, anti-trident, that sort of stuff. He knows how social media works. He's not just your uncle from Swansea who forwards football memes and selfies from the pub once in a while.

If he found it on an anonymous message board and his main motive was to share a good idea for tackling racism, why not say you just found it. Why claim it as your own - adding a couple lines at the top to "customise" it even? Now he's been caught out, why hasn't he put something on his page saying sorry at least? Methinks he likes the kudos of taking credit for this idea that's become super popular - with bonus story painting him as a white knight saving a damsel in distress (Can you say "white saviour?")

White folks: Nicking stuff from black, brown, yellow and red folks and taking credit for it for, well, forever.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Dangerous game to play this 'ally' lark.

 

[two sheds]

can I quote you on that?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I detest the concept of an 'ally'. It implies that we're in different groups due in this instance to race. Shit consequences of identity politics.

 

[Combustible]

If he found it on an anonymous message board and his main motive was to share a good idea for tackling racism, why not say you just found it. Why claim it as your own - adding a couple lines at the top to "customise" it even?

I'm not sure he is claiming it as his own is he? Unless you're particularly egotistical, you probably wouldn't call something you've written "good advice".

But yeah he should have made it more clear it wasn't from him and attributed it to her if he knew where it was from.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Sharing someone else's post on fb is much easier/less effort than to C&P and attribute their post/words as your own. He did that deliberately.