People getting racially abused because of the referendum result

[phildwyer]

Dunno what data you want - all the far right groups were campaigning for Leave, there were loads of shots of known BNP / NF / Britain First / EDL / etc members on street stalls and the like campaigning for leave.

The organized far right may have voted Leave; it doesn't follow that all or even most racists did likewise.

Tbh, I suspect that they did. But I also think the connection between Leave and racism has been over-emphasized as part of the media's campaign to denigrate--and if possible ignore or reverse--the referendum result.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I remember, back in the day when I had some middle class friends and one of them got mugged by a couple of black kids. Suddenly, amongst these perfectly liberal 'nice' young people a load of sneering racism emerged, not overt, much like that paragraph...

Nope. Your attempt to equalise/compare how PB described the woman who called her a nigger with a story about nice middle class people getting mugged by a couple of Black kids ...simply comes over to be as 'whataboutery'...

highlighting perceived stereotypes, making assumptions, comments about appearance based on racist tropes. It was revealing, and so are her comments.

Unless you are prepared to share what these are your story is nothing more than an attempt to write I'M RIGHT, COS I SAID SO in red pen all over the thread.

Also, how would you working class friends have reacted?

that past of my post wasn't aimed at you at all, sorry if you thought it was

You wrote this:

There are many equally bad examples currently on the net, and choosing to highlight someone responding to racism is not the best look, neither is doing it on this thread.

...in response to the preceeding discussion that led me to asking J ED:

You don't like the way she looked down her nose and was judgemental about someone who had just called her a nigger?

...now yes you may have had other examples of things you have seen on the net in mind too but your whole post was built off the back of my question and the conversation that went before, that's why you quoted it.

given how this thread has gone I'm not sure that's such a good idea

Urban can be both a great and/or terrible place to have difficult conversations IMO...you won't know unless you try it out.

It would be interesting I think.

 

[BigTom]

The organized far right may have voted Leave; it doesn't follow that all or even most racists did likewise.

Tbh, I suspect that they did. But I also think the connection between Leave and racism has been over-emphasized as part of the media's campaign to denigrate--and if possible ignore or reverse--the referendum result.

Logic suggests they would though doesn't it, and in the absence of data around individual voters (which you're not going to get), it's the best measure.

I agree the connection between leave and racism has been over-emphasised in the sense that I think that most people who voted leave aren't racist and didn't vote for racist reasons. However I think you are totally wrong to suggest that racists voted to stay because of the racism of the eu migration laws.

 

[smokedout]

Nope. Your attempt to equalise/compare how PB described the woman who called her a nigger with a story about nice middle class people getting mugged by a couple of Black kids ...simply comes over to be as 'whataboutery'...

Unless you are prepared to share what these are your story is nothing more than an attempt to write I'M RIGHT, COS I SAID SO in red pen all over the thread.

I cant remember exactly, it was nearly two decades ago, it was along the lines of 'those people' who have different values/culture, they weren't educated, they could still afford Nike trainers, they were more prone to violence. I mentioned it because when I first read that facebook post it reminded me of it.

Also, how would you working class friends have reacted?

not like that tbh, but then my working class friends aren't closet racists, they wouldn't be my friends if they were.

You wrote this:

...in response to the preceeding discussion that led me to asking J ED:

...now yes you may have had other examples of things you have seen on the net in mind too but your whole post was built off the back of my question and the conversation that went before, that's why you quoted it.

I'm not getting into this, I said that part of my post wasn't aimed at you, I apologised if I gave that impression, if you still insist it was there's not much I can do.

Urban can be both a great and/or terrible place to have difficult conversations IMO...you won't know unless you try it out.

It would be interesting I think.

there's one here that probably fits: Immigration and the "racist thickos"

 

[8den]

SHUT UP ABOUT THE FUCKING SIZE OF THE FUCKING BOTTLE FOR FUCK'S SAKE YOU TEDIOUS CUNTS; IT'S ABOUT THE LEAST FUCKING IMPORTANT THING ABOUT THE WHOLE FUCKING STORY.

Q. Two racists are drinking 4 pints of smirnoff on the tube at 5pm. The tube is traveling south at 35mph. They drink 2 pints a minute, how many miles will they travel before they start abusing another passenger?

 

[Sweet FA]

Q. Two racists are drinking 4 pints of smirnoff on the tube at 5pm. The tube is traveling south at 35mph. They drink 2 pints a minute, how many miles will they travel before they start abusing another passenger?

SATs in post-brexit Britain?

 

[Treacle Toes]

hahahaha! It's all a fucking laugh, if you don't laugh you'll cry etc.

 

[8den]

hahahaha! It's all a fucking laugh, if you don't laugh you'll cry etc.

I wasn't laughing at the racism, more at Dwyers ability to seize an irrelevant point in an attempt to derail the thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Q. Two racists are drinking 4 pints of smirnoff on the tube at 5pm. The tube is traveling south at 35mph. They drink 2 pints a minute, how many miles will they travel before they start abusing another passenger?

MATHS WANKER!!!

 

[Treacle Toes]

iStreetWatch - report racism and xenophobia

 

[Anju]

Just in from a night out and 2 more things to add.

Female friend told to go back to her own fuking country. She was aware this might happen and had decided not to respond to any abuse. She now wishes she had said something. She also told me that her cousin had been discussing the referendum result on Friday night regarding his job security. He heard someone at the next table saying that they, I guess meaning either Muslim or asian or immigrants in general should not be allowed to vote.

 

[dessiato]

Just in from a night out and 2 more things to add.

Female friend told to go back to her own fuking country. She was aware this might happen and had decided not to respond to any abuse. She now wishes she had said something. She also told me that her cousin had been discussing the referendum result on Friday night regarding his job security. He heard someone at the next table saying that they, I guess meaning either Muslim or asian or immigrants in general should not be allowed to vote.

View attachment 89152

He died on Saturday. This quote of his should, IMO, be something we all bear in mind.

 

[emanymton]

Post removed because I don't want to get into an argument on this thread.

 

[RubyToogood]

I don't suppose there's any actual data on how racists voted. There seems to be a concerted media campaign to associate the Leave campaign with racism, but I don't see any necessary connection myself..

It doesn't matter whether leavers voted leave for racist reasons or not. It was immediately apparent after the results that both racists and those likely to be their victims felt that they had.

To which I would add that I think it is a mistake to think of people as either "racists" or "non-racists". Racism is an idea and ideas can spread. Fast.

 

[Treacle Toes]

A perspective from a close friend of mine.

I have been feeling a bit uneasy when reading this week's papers and FB comments about the rise on racism and xenophobia since the referendum. Advice is given by the media to report a racist crime. In my opinion, I don't believe there is "more" racism. Racist behavoiur and racist attacks is an everyday struggle for Black and Asian communities. The haters have just extended their attacks to white privilege migrants like me, because after the referendum, they feel more confident to speak out. Racism and Xenophobia has never being addressed properly because it only affects some people. Specially institutional racism. But now that it also affects some whites, there is an outcry in the media and society. That my friends, it is just an example of white privilege.

 

[emanymton]

A perspective from a close friend of mine.

I think there is some truth in that. I do think there has been an increase, but there would have been one whichever way the vote went. I don't think the outcry is just because racism is now affecting a few well of white people although it probably plays a part. I think it is largely motivated by a desire to tarnish the leave voters for having the temerity to vote the wrong way.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think there is some truth in that. I do think there has been an increase, but there would have been one whichever way the vote went. I don't think the outcry is just because racism is now affecting a few well of white people although it probably plays a part. I think it is largely motivated by a desire to tarnish the leave voters for having the temerity to vote the wrong way.

Did you notice she didn't mention 'leave voters'?

there would have been one whichever way the vote went.

I agree with you on this point. The damage had already been done.

 

[Pickman's model]

A perspective from a close friend of mine.

Yeh. Well, s/he's welcome to their opinion that racism only affects some people, but I'd say that it affects us all because among other things it keeps peorple divided, plus it's not like racism has only just affected white people, it's affected e.g. Irish people for centuries. I suspect among the drivers for the publicity of recent racist abuse has been social media and the coincidence or alignment of the media view of so many leavers as racist, so incidents receive attention in the media which in other circumstances they might not.

 

[emanymton]

Did you notice she didn't mention 'leave voters'?

She doesn't, but she says the reason for the sudden outcry against racism is becauae it now affects some white people. I agree with her on this to an extent. But I also think there is at attempt to tarnish the leave vote as just racist, probably both deliberately and unconsciously.

 

[emanymton]

Yeh. Well, s/he's welcome to their opinion that racism only affects some people, but I'd say that it affects us all because among other things it keeps peorple divided, plus it's not like racism has only just affected white people, it's affected e.g. Irish people for centuries. I suspect among the drivers for the publicity of recent racist abuse has been social media and the coincidence or alignment of the media view of so many leavers as racist, so incidents receive attention in the media which in other circumstances they might not.

Something I though of saying, was that she makes no mention of the racism that has been directing to Poles, and Romanians recently.

 

[Pickman's model]

Did you notice she didn't mention 'leave voters'?

the identification of leave with racism is more certain or complete than the identification of remain with racism.

 

[editor]

Citizens UK is an organisation that promotes community organising across England and Wales. Neil Jameson, its executive director, says that it has heard of hundreds of incidents across the country since the referendum. “It’s not physical violence, it’s violent words and stares and hostility. Its unwelcomeness and being told, ‘Go home’.”

‘Mama, will you be deported?’: Brexit vote triggers eruption of racism

 

[Treacle Toes]

Something I though of saying, was that she makes no mention of the racism that has been directing to Poles, and Romanians recently.

Who do you think she is refering to when she said 'White migrants like me'?

Funny how you find it so easy to imagine she is blaming all Leave voters but can't decode the bloody obvious in what she said. She is a migrant, her first language isn't English and yes, she has faced her fair share of prejudice in the time she has lived here in the UK.

 

[emanymton]

Who do you think she is refering to when she said 'White migrants like me'?

Funny how you find it so easy to imagine she is blaming all Leave voters but can't decode the bloody obvious in what she said. She is a migrant, her first language isn't English and yes, she has faced her fair share of prejudice in the time she has lived here in the UK.

Where do you get the idea I think she's blaming leave voters for anything?

Or anyone for anything for that matter.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think there is some truth in that. I do think there has been an increase, but there would have been one whichever way the vote went. I don't think the outcry is just because racism is now affecting a few well of white people although it probably plays a part. I think it is largely motivated by a desire to tarnish the leave voters for having the temerity to vote the wrong way.

For some perhaps. For many others the outcry will be due to shock and disgust at the rise in racist abuse. Just that ought to be enough for an outcry whichever way you voted.

 

[YouSir]

For some perhaps. For many others the outcry will be due to shock and disgust at the rise in racist abuse. Just that ought to be enough for an outcry whichever way you voted.

It's a shame that the outrage, from both sides, hasn't manifested in attacks on those responsible for opening the flood gates. Happens every time, politicians and some/most papers use racist, xenophobic or bigoted lines to promote their view one way or another. People are outraged, then a week later they get back to it. The aftermath of the London mayoral election is a good show of that.

They're allowed to get away with it though. A lot of people wasting their time on safety pins instead of laying real blame.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's a shame that the outrage, from both sides, hasn't manifested in attacks on those responsible for opening the flood gates. Happens every time, politicians and some/most papers use racist, xenophobic or bigoted lines to promote their view one way or another. People are outraged, then a week later they get back to it. The aftermath of the London mayoral election is a good show of that.

They're allowed to get away with it though. A lot of people wasting their time on safety pins instead of laying real blame.

The London mayoral election is a bit different in that the racist campaign failed and the racist was heavily defeated in some part because of his racist campaign.

 

[smokedout]

I think it is largely motivated by a desire to tarnish the leave voters for having the temerity to vote the wrong way.

This is undoubtably true. It's difficult even for a non-biased journalist to perfectly steer between reporting what is a clear rise in racist incidents and giving that the attention it deserves, and not over-reporting/sensationalising it leading to unnecessary fears and even helping fuel it. But when you've a story about graffiti that is alleged to say Go Home in the copy run with a picture that shows graffiti that says something quite different, and everyday burglaries being reported as racist attacks then there is a clear agenda being pursued by some sections of the press. It's a bit too gleeful in some quarters, and is significant as an example of the way 'soft', or veiled racism has been exploited by the Remain campaign ever since this started.

 

[YouSir]

The London mayoral election is a bit different in that the racist campaign failed and the racist was heavily defeated in some part because of his racist campaign.

Aye, example stands though as the tools used haven't gone away. Try the rise of UKIP instead if you like, fed by a racist undercurrent in the mainstream which is very rarely challenged. Or the hype the EDL received at one point, or the BNP. Built and peaked by parasites in the media and politics despite having negligable support beforehand. They're just the flare ups though, the issue is the constant running anti-immigrant, bigoted narrative that's taken as normal.

 

[Anju]

This is undoubtably true. It's difficult even for a non-biased journalist to perfectly steer between reporting what is a clear rise in racist incidents and giving that the attention it deserves, and not over-reporting/sensationalising it leading to unnecessary fears and even helping fuel it. But when you've a story about graffiti that is alleged to say Go Home in the copy run with a picture that shows graffiti that says something quite different, and everyday burglaries being reported as racist attacks then there is a clear agenda being pursued by some sections of the press. It's a bit too gleeful in some quarters, and is significant as an example of the way 'soft', or veiled racism has been exploited by the Remain campaign ever since this started.

My turn to go all conspiracy theory. Why is the media, well Newsshopper, claiming that a smashed window, nothing taken but the place ransacked is a burglary, based on a few social media comments. Last time I checked burglaries involved theft, while smashing up a place can be hate crime.

I may well be wrong but the ES photo looks photoshoped to me. Never seen spray paint look like that. I had a closer look because the ES is not exactly a neutral paper.