Paramedics doubt Dr Kelly's 'suicide' cause

[editor]

Still waiting.

Remind me why I should continue to provide you with a free outlet for your pathetic abuse. I don't mind the cut and thrust of a lively argument, but I'm getting very, very tired of your infantile insult hurling.

Funnt thing is that I would have thought that a self proclaimed superior intellectual like you should have no problem being published in the serious media - so how come you're reduced to posting on a website which you clearly hold in contempt?

Any ideas?

Might it be because people find your evidence-free ramblings a bit of a joke?

What do you think?

 

[editor]

So it would appear that the Thames Valley Police 'investigation into the circumstances surrounding Dr Kelly's death' began a full hour before Dr Kelly even left his house.

Well, if it's in the Daily Mail , it must be true!

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

Well, if it's in the Daily Mail , it must be true!

Let me get this straight...

Are you now suggesting that 'Operation Mason' wasn't tha Thames Valley Police 'investigation into the circumstances surrounding Dr Kelly's death'?

Perhaps you would like to speculate on what it was?

 

[editor]

Perhaps you would like to speculate on what it was?

No thanks.

But why don't you tell us what really happened? No need to be coy!

So far, we've got the masons, we've got the US govt, we've got the UK govt, we've got a low ranking Abingdon country bobby (sorry, a low ranking Abingdon country detective bobby) and his local police station all involved in this amazing conspiracy.

Oh, hold on. We have to add the Hutton enquiry and the coroners too!

Am I missing anyone else?

Whoops! I forgot! What about the family? They seemed a bit too quick off the mark to accept that their loved one committed suicide, so they must be in on it too!

And your evidence is for this massive conspiracy is.....err.....err......

 

[editor]

to be fair i think he is saying that when there are people like you who, in his eyes, accept what they are told by the media then why do you need censorship?

Except that I run a free site where people are free to post up when they don't "accept what they are told by the media".

That rather rubbishes the argument, don't you think?

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

And your evidence is.....err.....err......

Taken from the Hutton Enquiry.

Do you really not think there is any suspicious about the fact that the Thames Valley Police 'investigation into the circumstances surrounding Dr Kelly's death' began an hour before Dr Kelly left his house?

 

[editor]

Do you really not think there is any suspicious about the fact that the Thames Valley Police 'investigation into the circumstances surrounding Dr Kelly's death' began an hour before Dr Kelly left his house?

It's clear your mind is made up (just like it was in the 9/11 threads) so why not just spit it out and help me out here?

Were the masons involved yes/no?
Was the UK govt involved yes/no?
Was the US govt involved yes/no?
Have you a shred of evidence that suggests Kelly was murdered yes/no?

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

What we do have is rather a lot of evidence that the facts as presented in the Hutton Inquiry contain some rather disturbing contradictions and irregularities.

To my mind, at least, that suggests that the conclusions presented by Lord Hutton are questionable.

Evidently, not to yours.

Perhaps I should frame that as a direct question:

Is there any doubt at all in your mind regarding the integrity of the findings of the Hutton Inquiry?

 

[fela fan]

Everybody knows the british government is more than prone to lying.

Everybody knows that those in power will lie in order to retain that power.

Everybody knows kelly knew more than most about hussein's wmd program.

Everybody knows the british government took our country into war over the wmd issue.

Everybody knows hussein had no wmd.

That means an illegal war, means war crimes on blair's part.

Means war crimes on bush's part.

Means downfall of UK and US governments, with probably jail for the two leaders.

Kelly, we can therefore deduce, knew too much. So, did he kill himself, or did he get killed?

Either way, i think anybody with any kind of intelligence can see plenty of reasons for kelly to suddenly be no longer alive. Dead men tell no tales.

Therefore the best course of action, in the name of justice and truth, is for a fully independent enquiry. Assuming such a thing is possible these days.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Phwoar, Katchoo!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

What we do have is rather a lot of evidence that the facts as presented in the Hutton Inquiry contain some rather disturbing contradictions and irregularities.

Funnily enough, I spent yesterday at an independent inquiry relating to events concerning which I was the complainant.

Amazingly enough, the various parties and witnesses involved could not agree about when events had taken place or what had happened when they had done.

This meant that there are, would you believe flaws, inconsoistencies and contradictions in the evidence.

There is, at least, however, evidence.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Everybody knows the british government is more than prone to lying.

Everybody knows that those in power will lie in order to retain that power.

Everybody knows kelly knew more than most about hussein's wmd program.

Everybody knows the british government took our country into war over the wmd issue.

Everybody knows hussein had no wmd.

That means an illegal war, means war crimes on blair's part.

Means war crimes on bush's part.

Means downfall of UK and US governments, with probably jail for the two leaders.

Kelly, we can therefore deduce, knew too much. So, did he kill himself, or did he get killed?

Either way, i think anybody with any kind of intelligence can see plenty of reasons for kelly to suddenly be no longer alive. Dead men tell no tales.

Therefore the best course of action, in the name of justice and truth, is for a fully independent enquiry. Assuming such a thing is possible these days.

This is a bundle of contradictions. If "everybody knows" that Hussain had no WMD - which they do - then what difference does or would Dr Kelly's evidence make? Seems entirely superfluous to me. And this knowledge has very clearly not led to Bush and Blair going to jail - indeed, one has been re-elected while theother will presumably suffer the same fate next year.

It's nothing, based on nothing.

 

[fela fan]

Amazingly enough, the various parties and witnesses involved cold not agree about when events had taken place or what had happened when they had done.

Actually justin, it's really not that amazing! There are many reasons for this, but one is that when an event happens we sense it accordingly. If we were prepared for the event, we'd be in a state of heightened consciousness ready to use all our senses to the maximum possible.

When a suprising unexpected event occurs, we don't begin with advantage.

I once staged a 'robbery' in one of my english classes and immediately after it finished, gave out police-type forms to my students asking for hair colour clothes and all that kind of identifying stuff.

There were many different answers and a nice amount of arguing and discussing going on (which since they were learning to speak english is exactly what i wanted!).

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Turn your Irony Detector on

Actually justin, it's really not that amazing!

Er, yes, that was my point.

 

[fela fan]

This is a bundle of contradictions. If "everybody knows" that Hussain had no WMD - which they do - then what difference does or would Dr Kelly's evidence make? Seems entirely superfluous to me. And this knowledge has very clearly not led to Bush and Blair going to jail - indeed, one has been re-elected while theother will presumably suffer the same fate next year.

It's nothing, based on nothing.

No it's not nothing mate! At the time, blair insisted (through lies as we now incontrovertibly know, yet have not been 'proven') that his nation enter an illegal war based on the fact that hussein had wmd and he was a danger to us.

If that information could be proved to be false at the time (ie he knowingly lied and therefore took his nation into war over those deliberate lies) in a court of law, then surely blair and his government would fall. With no witnesses or proof available in a court (kelly being dead suddenly and conveniently), this cannot happen, and blair can revise history. Which of course is what he's done.

 

[fela fan]

Er, yes, that was my point.

sorry man, being the honest believing sort of person i am i often miss such ironies and piss takes...

 

[Donna Ferentes]

If that information could be proved to be false at the time (ie he knowingly lied and therefore took his nation into war over those deliberate lies) in a court of law, then surely blair and his government would fall.

In what way was it likely to go to a court of law?

With no witnesses or proof available in a court (kelly being dead suddenly and conveniently), this cannot happen

In what way do we know Dr Kelly was a likely witness or a particularly damning one (compared, to say, Blair's critics in the security services)? So why does his death stop this happening?

and blair can revise history. Which of course is what he's done.

In what way has he done this? As he now accepts there were no WMDs it strikes me that the opposite is the case.

You want to get a sense of proportion here. It's not like everybody now believes the case for war whereas if Dr Kelly hadn't died, they wouldn't. In fact also nobody now believes the case for war and we have no reason to believe Dr Kelly would have significantly added to the number of the doubters.

 

[editor]

Perhaps I should frame that as a direct question:

Perhaps you should answer my questions first.

It's kinda polite.

 

[editor]

One thing: if Kelly didn't die by suicide, exactly how was he bumped off?
What did he die of?

 

[Stobart Stopper]

There are lots of injectable poisons that wouldn't show up in blood tests and post mortems. Don't forget that bloke in Chechnya (I think) the opposition bloke, that poison he was given was very hard to detect.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

1. Ukraine.
2. They detected it.

 

[editor]

Right. So he was poisoned AND was forced to swallow the pills AND someone cut his arms with his own pen knife and all with no sign of a struggle?

 

[Wess]

If that information could be proved to be false at the time (ie he knowingly lied and therefore took his nation into war over those deliberate lies) in a court of law, then surely Blair and his government would fall. With no witnesses or proof available in a court (Kelly being dead suddenly and conveniently), this cannot happen, and Blair can revise history. Which of course is what he's done.

What?...and not blame the "faulty intelligance"?....Which is what him and Bush are doing now. There is no way that it would have panned out the way you suggested Fela, it was a dubious scenario anyway, so I doubt very much if another person came out, that it would have made any difference at all.
In fact. quite a few people came out with evidence to the contrary didn't they? (saying there was no WMD's or evidence they existed) I know there were several in Australia, including one which is going at the moment regarding the government not passing on Intel. to the front line troops in East Timor. Poli's have been ducking and weaving their whole career, why do you think David Kelly's admissions would make any difference?

btw, I don't know what happened, but I'm quite a bit sceptical that it was a Government sponsored murder...and as for the Masons....well, don't you think their suit would get a bit messy going around murdering people ?...but then again, I've alway's wondered what they carried around in those little black brief cases
...I know that because we have a local chapter in my suburb and I asked a bloke the other day if he knew who killed Kelly and he said no and he is a Mason with a black suit.

 

[Jazzz]

One thing: if Kelly didn't die by suicide, exactly how was he bumped off?
What did he die of?

That's a good question.

Makes a change!

it's what we have coroner's inquests and murder investigations for

 

[Pickman's model]

One thing: if Kelly didn't die by suicide, exactly how was he bumped off?
What did he die of?

heart failure, most likely. once yr heart stops, yr done for.

 

[editor]

it's what we have coroner's inquests and murder investigations for

Yes. There's been one and a second request was turned down by Coroner Nicholas Gardiner who concluded that there were "no exceptional reasons" for the inquest to be resumed.

Interestingly enough, Kelly's mother also committed suicide

Back to the growing line up of those who would have to have been involved in the conspiracy - can I add Prof Horton to the conspiracy line up too?

Professor Keith Hawton, a consultant psychiatrist and Director of the Centre for Suicide Research at Oxford University, told the inquiry earlier this month that, after interviewing the weapons expert’s family, and examining his family history, medical records and personnel file, he had become convinced that Dr Kelly had taken his own life.

Prof Hawton, one of the country's leading authorities on suicide, told the inquiry he was "well nigh certain" that Dr Kelly committed suicide, and probably decided to do so on or after July 17. This was the day the scientist went out for his final walk, having emailed a friend about the stress he was under.http://tinyurl.com/5oacb

His wife and family have accepted the verdict of suicide. So have his friends: "Journalist Tom Mangold, a friend of Dr Kelly, has said suggestions he was murdered are ridiculous.".

So are they in on the conspiracy too?

Without a single shred of proof to suggest he was murdered, or even a remotely plausible alternative means of death, I can't see much point in entertaining these highly speculative ramblings.

I remain of the opinion that those who really knew Kelly would be the people to ask whether he committed suicide or not, and not amateur internet homepage wannabe 'sleuths'.

 

[Jazzz]

Yes. There's been one and a second request was turned down by Coroner Nicholas Gardiner who concluded that there were "no exceptional reasons" for the inquest to be resumed.

Incorrect.

There has been no coroner's inquest which are concerned specifically with ascertaining the cause of death. Hutton was no coroner, he was state stooge, as we know. Kelly deserved a proper coroner's inquest before a jury.

and yes, Nicholas Gardiner's comment is obviously extraordinary, seeing as Kelly clearly couldn't have died the way Hutton said. What does that say? (and don't complain - you have refused to confirm you believe he bled to death).

How do you think our system judged Roberto Calvi's death as 'suicide' for twenty years when it so obviously wasn't? Because it's incorruptible? Wake up editor.

 

[Jazzz]

His wife and family have accepted the verdict of suicide. So have his friends:

His close friend Mai Pederson certainly hasn't

 

[Pickman's model]

His wife and family have accepted the verdict of suicide. So have his friends: "Journalist Tom Mangold, a friend of Dr Kelly, has said suggestions he was murdered are ridiculous.".

shurely "so has a friend"?

 

[Idris2002]

Where's the 600-post thread about the killing of Pat Finucane?


Hmmmm?