Paramedics doubt Dr Kelly's 'suicide' cause

[Stanley Edwards]

Yes me too. It refers to the involvement of spooks in the affair.

It could equally be read as an indication of Dr Kelly's state of mind at the time. It's not uncommon for people under pressure/suffering from deep depression to become slightly paranoid. I think I would if in his position for all sorts of reasons.

Too bad they just let him swallow a box of pills, slash his own wrists, and bleed to death without doing anything to help (except clean the grass). Must have taken a tea break I guess

I was suggesting that he was being monitored from a distance.

Both my suggestions are just offered as equally viable theories as an alternative to those being voiced by yourself and others. Simply offering a counter argument. Not necessarily my own beliefs.

I still think he committed suicide and that people are reading far to much into the reports findings and heresay theories. I've never read a report from this sort of investigation before. I have absolutely no idea how reliable witness accounts and police records are. I'm sure the experts do have.

 

[Jazzz]

It could equally be read as an indication of Dr Kelly's state of mind at the time. It's not uncommon for people under pressure/suffering from deep depression to become slightly paranoid. I think I would if in his position for all sorts of reasons.

He worked at the ministry of defence, was at the top of his game. You don't get to run the show in a war zone if you don't have a sound mind and the ability to function under the greatest pressure. And he will have known what a spook was.

I was suggesting that he was being monitored from a distance.

And yet we don't know what they saw? No-one thought to tell Hutton? Did the binoculars pack up at the crucial moment?

Both my suggestions are just offered as equally viable theories as an alternative to those being voiced by yourself and others. Simply offering a counter argument. Not necessarily my own beliefs.

You're welcome. Don't mind me picking holes though

 

[Stanley Edwards]

You're welcome. Don't mind me picking holes though

Of course not. I'm only interested in presenting an alternative interpretation of the enquiry. That's 'alternative' as in the 'non-alternative'.

I meant long distance observation as in electronic surveilance. Not sure binoculars are used as much these days.

Dealing with the pressure of being an MOD researcher and WMD inspector would be a very different pressure to the public limelight he found himself in. Some considered him to be a traitor.

I have absolutely no doubt he earned a lot of money and knew of most of the risks involved if not all. Not sure he realised what an interview with Gilligan was going to result in.

To be perfectly frank I think he was out of his mind talking to a journalist. He has my respect for that though despite some of his previous work. I think his intentions were good and I think it was a very sad suicide.

I can see where some of the conspiracy theories are coming from. But, I like to compare them with the findings of the enquiry. For a balanced view!

 

[Buddy Bradley]

I'm still waiting for someone to describe how Kelly did die if it wasn't an act of suicide.

I'm still waiting for someone to describe how Kelly did die if the cuts to his wrist and the pills he ingested were not in themselves enough to prove fatal.

 

[editor]

I'm still waiting for someone to describe how Kelly did die if the cuts to his wrist and the pills he ingested were not in themselves enough to prove fatal.

Do you think that there's always a clear conclusion as to why people die then?

 

[Buddy Bradley]

What are you suggesting - that he attempted suicide by inflicting non-fatal wounds in himself, and then died for a completely different reason??

<guffaws>

 

[Stanley Edwards]

What are you suggesting - that he attempted suicide by inflicting non-fatal wounds in himself, and then died for a completely different reason??

<guffaws>

He bled to death! It's pretty simple. Despite what others are saying, virtually all the witnesses reported seeing a lot of blood. Around his left wrist, arm and left side.

Blood seeping into the ground is a very sound explanation for the reason the paramedics didn't see as much blood as they would in a tiled bathroom for example.

 

[Loki]

I'm still waiting for someone to describe how Kelly did die if the cuts to his wrist and the pills he ingested were not in themselves enough to prove fatal.

Have to admit, it's odd that I can't find an article by a respected source describing exactly how Kelly died, given the high profile of this case

 

[Buddy Bradley]

He bled to death! It's pretty simple. Despite what others are saying, virtually all the witnesses reported seeing a lot of blood. Around his left wrist, arm and left side.

Fact #1: The injuries to Kelly's wrist (self-inflicted or not) were not sufficient to cause death by blood loss. Severing the ulnar artery would cause maybe a pint to be lost before the wound sealed due to muscle pressure.

Fact #2: A little bit of blood goes a long way. A pint would be more than enough to decorate the set of 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre', let alone cause witnesses to describe it as "a lot of blood".

 

[Stanley Edwards]

Fact #1: The injuries to Kelly's wrist (self-inflicted or not) were not sufficient to cause death by blood loss. Severing the ulnar artery would cause maybe a pint to be lost before the wound sealed due to muscle pressure.

Fact #2: A little bit of blood goes a long way. A pint would be more than enough to decorate the set of 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre', let alone cause witnesses to describe it as "a lot of blood".

Nope. Neither of these are facts. Pure speculation.

Point me to factual evidence of either and I'll willingly admit I'm wrong on either.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Nope. Neither of these are facts. Pure speculation.

Point me to factual evidence of either and I'll willingly admit I'm wrong on either.

No, I can't be bothered - read the rest of the thread for links to quotes from doctors related to the injuries point, and experienced medical personnel for the blood point. I concede the Texas Chainsaw reference is pure speculation on my part.

 

[Jazzz]

I meant long distance observation as in electronic surveilance. Not sure binoculars are used as much these days.

So DC Coe was providing long-distance electronic surveillance at the scene?

Are you sure you are not making this up as you go along?

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Maybe he was looking through the wrong end of his binoculars...

 

[Stanley Edwards]

No, I can't be bothered - read the rest of the thread for links to quotes from doctors related to the injuries point, and experienced medical personnel for the blood point. I concede the Texas Chainsaw reference is pure speculation on my part.

Feable

It's up to you to present the evidence to support your claims of fact. I have merely suggested an alternative theory.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

So DC Coe was providing long-distance electronic surveillance at the scene?

Are you sure you are not making this up as you go along?

Idiot!

DC Coe didn't appear on the scene until after Dr Kelly's death. The Special Branch were notified by the commanding officer from the very outset.

You're getting muddled. Yes - I am 'making stuff up'. I'm presenting an alternative theory. It's a shame you can't recognise that your theory is just a theory also.

I fully understand where you're thinking is coming from. Just wish you could follow mine. Don't think we're ever going to agree on this but, you need to open your mind a bit more to stop us going around in circles.

Sorry if you've already posted and I missed it (long thread) but, what is your hypothesis on the killing event? How exactly?

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Feable

It's up to you to present the evidence to support your claims of fact. I have merely suggested an alternative theory.

The evidence has already been presented earlier in the thread. It is not my job to do your reading for you.

Feeble.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

The evidence has already been presented earlier in the thread. It is not my job to do your reading for you.

Feeble.

I can't find any evidence to support your claim of fact! Not on this thread and not in The Hutton Enquiry.

If you would only show me it I would willingly read it and fully admit my error.

 

[Jazzz]

Idiot!

DC Coe didn't appear on the scene until after Dr Kelly's death. The Special Branch were notified by the commanding officer from the very outset.

You're getting muddled. Yes - I am 'making stuff up'. I'm presenting an alternative theory. It's a shame you can't recognise that your theory is just a theory also.

I fully understand where you're thinking is coming from. Just wish you could follow mine. Don't think we're ever going to agree on this but, you need to open your mind a bit more to stop us going around in circles.

Sorry if you've already posted and I missed it (long thread) but, what is your hypothesis on the killing event? How exactly?

Oh, I get you. Are you saying that DC Coe was nothing to do with this 'tactical support'? In which case we still have no explanation for his presence at the scene.

In any event, your theory doesn't work, for if the police were monitoring Kelly, and things are as they should be, they would have 1) alerted ambulances etc. and 2) revealed what they saw to the Hutton enquiry

 

[Stanley Edwards]

Oh, I get you. Are you saying that DC Coe was nothing to do with this 'tactical support'? In which case we still have no explanation for his presence at the scene.

No. I really don't have a clue about DC Coe. I've previously suggested that he was just stupid or, acting above his station. My current belief is that he was simply showing the tactical support guys to the scene and was later told not to tell anyone about their investigation as it was to remain undisclosed under any circumstances.

In any event, your theory doesn't work, for if the police were monitoring Kelly, and things are as they should be, they would have 1) alerted ambulances etc. and 2) revealed what they saw to the Hutton enquiry

Not necessarily so. 1) Maybe they didn't monitor things closely enough or, misinterpreted their own findings and mis-judged the severity of Dr Kelly's depression. Lots of other reasons I can think of also.

2) Some things always have to remain undisclosed. We're a country at war. We have enemies!

 

[Lock&Light]

He worked at the ministry of defence, was at the top of his game. You don't get to run the show in a war zone if you don't have a sound mind and the ability to function under the greatest pressure. And he will have known what a spook was.

Not one word (ok, then, not one phrase) of that paragraph of Dr. Jazzz's has been established in any way that could be satisfactory to a scientific mind, except for the fact that Dr Kelly does appear to have worked at the Ministry of Defence. This also applies to many other paragraphs of Dr Jazzz's postings.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I'm still waiting for someone to describe how Kelly did die if the cuts to his wrist and the pills he ingested were not in themselves enough to prove fatal.

I've still waiting for somebody to adequately explain why he cut his wrist and took a load of pills if not with the intention of committing suicide.

But mostly I'm waiting for somebody to bin this thread.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

But mostly I'm waiting for somebody to bin this thread.

Yep. It's not going anywhere else useful. Time for the bin.

 

[editor]

I've still waiting for somebody to adequately explain why he cut his wrist and took a load of pills if not with the intention of committing suicide.

I think you'll be in for a long wait because it's the one thing that those proposing an exciting conspiracy simply can't answer.

 

[MrSki]

Can this thread not be archived?

The subject is bound to resurface. Most of what has been said here was said on the original thread & it would avoid all that typing.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

I've still waiting for somebody to adequately explain why he cut his wrist and took a load of pills if not with the intention of committing suicide.

But mostly I'm waiting for somebody to bin this thread.

Haven't you ever heard of mind control?
Echelon?

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/echelon.htm

 

[editor]

Haven't you ever heard of mind control?
Echelon?

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/echelon.htm

WTF has Echelon got to do with Kelly's death?!

And 'mind control'? Yeah, right. That's really likely. Greeeeeeat site too!

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Haven't you ever heard of mind control?
Echelon?

You're really not helping, SS.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Yes, but what entertainment!

In order to give a satellite mind-reading capability, it only remains to put
some type of EEG-like-device on a satellite and link it with a computer that
has a data bank of brain-mapping research.

I believe that surveillance satellites began reading minds--or rather, began
allowing the minds of targets to be read--sometime in the early 1990s. Some
satellites in fact can read a person's mind from space.

[MAYBE THIS IS WHY RUSSIAN MIND CONTROL PLAN WAS OVER WACO]

 

[editor]

There's also some fabulous stuff in there about how Microsoft is going to take over the world and own us all.

" Microsoft is scheming to take over the world, rolling in on a Trojan horse
named ".NET" and Echelon.
The *REAL* design of .NET's architecture is one that would allow Microsoft to own every man and woman who on the face of this earth chooses to take the mark of technology. I'm a developer and I predict some form of this to appear in everyone's home within the next 3 to 4 years... maybe sooner."
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/scheming.htm

 

[Donna Ferentes]

A pedant observes: you would arrive in a Trojan Horse rather than on one.