Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
The police kettled people in Whitehall just before 5pm which led to a few more arrests
Palestine solidarity demos in the UK
- Thread starter BillRiver
- Start date
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
I think they will have been nicked cos of the pamphlet having a swastika/star of david on the cover. I don't agree with this kind of political policing, I think it's unhelpful to nick people for daft shit like this, but I don't think denouncing zionism on its own is enough to get you arrested.
eta: this is the pamphlet cover:
eta: this is the pamphlet cover:
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That's the same symbol they were after a woman at the big demo for. Hope she was never traced.
It's bonkers to criminalise the comparison of Zionism to Nazism in this way. 'You're displaying a swastika, that's illegal' seems to be the logic, even if you're using that swastika to mean 'evil'.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
I mean, I'm not a fan of the criminalisation, but the symbolism is really cack-handed as well. Life would be a lot easier in this area if the Israeli state hadn't made one of the main symbols of Judaism the center of the flag, but unfortunately they have, and that being the case, it's probably best to try to avoid sticking a swastika in the middle of a star of david. If you absolutely completely feel like you cannot stop yourself from using a swastika, maybe try to find a non-star-of-david way to make your point?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You don't have to think it's a good use of the symbol to think it shouldn't be criminal to do it.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Published in 2015 but inexplicably no arrests for 8 years
ska invita
back on the other side
MET response is that they did trasnslate them...what did the signs say?
teqniq
DisMembered
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I find this problematic. This man had is home made placard confiscated. Stopped the video to look at it.
The placard has a timeline. A swastika on one section with 1940s on it. The timeline continues to now with the Israeli symbol.
So hes not superimposing the two symbols. Hes saying their was genocide then and in his opinion genocide now in 2023 in Palestine.
I don't see this as anti semitic or hate speech that should be confiscated.
He is making a political point. One might not agree to but he is entitled to make it.
Of course the Telegraph headline is misleading.
The man puts up a good argument with cops. Quite impressed. Didn't get abusive. Just pointing out he should have freedom of speech
The placard has a timeline. A swastika on one section with 1940s on it. The timeline continues to now with the Israeli symbol.
So hes not superimposing the two symbols. Hes saying their was genocide then and in his opinion genocide now in 2023 in Palestine.
I don't see this as anti semitic or hate speech that should be confiscated.
He is making a political point. One might not agree to but he is entitled to make it.
Of course the Telegraph headline is misleading.
The man puts up a good argument with cops. Quite impressed. Didn't get abusive. Just pointing out he should have freedom of speech
Last edited:
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
As littlebabyjesus says the Met now are seeing any swastika however used on a placard as illegal.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Innit. I mean ACAB and everything, but seriously, it's a shit thing to do. No surprise that the guy who tweeted that works for RT.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Looks like the Met set a PR trap there and the MAB walked right into it. "Can't possibly be any cops that speak and read Arabic, they are all English and thick..."
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Cops at demos generally never give a single shit what it is whoever is marching actually says. IME they only do when they've been told to. Clearly in this instance they have been told to - probably in a vague way but they will feel the need to obey orders.
Cloo
Approved by toads
That's what I'd advise. I do get the symbolism but, as I've said elsewhere, it's needlessly offensive to some of the people who may be marching with you so don't do it. It's not going to change anyone's mind but it could alienate Jewish allies.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Is it legitimate to use make the Nazi comparison with any other regime?
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
I mean, it may or may not be wise or helpful, but it does tend to be a bit less of a minefield if it's a regime/state that wasn't founded as a direct response to the holocaust.
One thing that I do sometimes find myself grumpily thinking is that, in many ways, I think the Israeli state's actions actually resemble the atrocities inflicted on the original inhabitants of places like the US, Canada or Australia far more than they resemble the nazi holocaust. But for whatever reason you never get people superimposing the Canadian flag on the Israeli one, or anything similar.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Something can be bad on its own terms without anyone needing to measure it in Hitlers per square mile or whatever.
This is shit, stop doing it is about the level of detail you need on a placard. If you're trying to make some kind of complex and subtle point using paint and cardboard then at best you'll fail completely, at worst you'll upset and alienate a large chunk of the people who should be on your side.
This is shit, stop doing it is about the level of detail you need on a placard. If you're trying to make some kind of complex and subtle point using paint and cardboard then at best you'll fail completely, at worst you'll upset and alienate a large chunk of the people who should be on your side.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You could argue that its use is particularly pertinent for the state that was founded as a response to the Holocaust precisely because of that history. Look how badly you have gone wrong, you're as bad as the Nazis ffs.
I'm not going to criticise the comparison, not when you have senior members of the Israeli cabinet talking openly about exterminating the Palestinians. A direct comparison with the Nazis seems pretty apt for people like Itamar Ben-Gvir. The idea that the comparison should be criminal is absurd.
PTK
Paul Kegan
I agree. Something that is bad is bad, whether or not it is as bad as, or worse than, something else.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
I think that does then open up a whole heap of problems, in a way that just "this is shit, stop doing it" doesn't. I don't think it's always a bad or unjustifiable comparison - I've mentioned a few times how much I've appreciated Fredy Perlman's writing on the subject, and he's very explicit about making the comparison in some places - but it's the sort of thing that needs to be handled with a bit of care, just going "here, let's just slap a swastika on everything in sight, that'll help things no end" doesn't do much for me.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Specifically from a Palestinian point of view, the comparison makes sense. It wasn't the Palestinians who initiated a genocide against Jews. So they get kicked out of their land to make way for a Jewish homeland that is created as a safe place because of European violence against Jews, and a bunch of mostly Europeans arrive to kick them out. Those Europeans happen to be Jews, but from a Palestinian point of view, looking up from the gutter into which they have been thrown, what should that matter to them? They're Europeans who also look decidedly genocidey in temperament and now it's the Palestinians' turn to be the victims.
Cloo
Approved by toads
It's just counterproductive, I suppose. Israeli and Jewish hawks know perfectly well by now that people compare Israel's treatment of the Palestinian's to the Nazi's treatment of the Jews. It's not going to shock them, it's not going to change their mind. But it is giving them ammo to say 'Look, these people just want to cause hurt and offense to Jews by using the most shocking imagery they can, this just proves they're antisemites. If they understood or cared about Jews they wouldn't do that'.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Well, as I said before, the comparison with the treatment of indigenous peoples across North America and Australia makes considerably more sense. There has actually been more than one bad thing that's happened in history.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I do actually agree with this on balance. However, imo the correct response to the police arresting people for using swastika imagery to compare Israel to the Nazis is to say first and foremost that the police are out of order. That we wouldn't choose to do it ourselves is neither here nor there.
Similar threads
