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Palestine solidarity demos in the UK

Well, as I said before, the comparison with the treatment of indigenous peoples across North America and Australia makes considerably more sense. There has actually been more than one bad thing that's happened in history.
Why? Specifically the group of people attempting to inflict a genocide against the Palestinians are only there in the first place because of a genocide that was inflicted on their group (I'm simplifying of course - the zionist project began before Hitler). Seems a pretty natural place to look for parallels, and in terms of the ways in which various Israeli politicians are attempting to dehumanise Palestinians, there are parallels. I also agree with Norman Finkelstein when he calls Gaza a concentration camp. What else is it?

IMO the most pertinent comparison is with South Africa. There are a number of direct parallels. I think calling Israel an apartheid state is the right level of offence to cause. But I'm not going to police others in their choices.
 
It's just counterproductive, I suppose. Israeli and Jewish hawks know perfectly well by now that people compare Israel's treatment of the Palestinian's to the Nazi's treatment of the Jews. It's not going to shock them, it's not going to change their mind. But it is giving them ammo to say 'Look, these people just want to cause hurt and offense to Jews by using the most shocking imagery they can, this just proves they're antisemites. If they understood or cared about Jews they wouldn't do that'.

I don't agree with the man from the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist) being arrested, but I would like to point out that that organisation lauds Stalin, who was responsible for the deportation of half a dozen small nations in the USSR, an action that the CPGB (ML) justifies.
 
I do actually agree with this on balance. However, imo the correct response to the police arresting people for using swastika imagery to compare Israel to the Nazis is to say first and foremost that the police are out of order. That we wouldn't choose to do it ourselves is neither here nor there.
Yeah, I don't think people should be arrested for it, but ideally people should tell them not to go n there. I heard a story online (not verified) than on the 11 Nov protest a Jewish protestor and people with her told a woman with a star of David dripping with blood on her placard that it was an issue as it was the symbol of Judaism, not specifically Israeli and the person carrying it apologised and put it down.
 
Yeah, I don't think people should be arrested for it, but ideally people should tell them not to go n there. I heard a story online (not verified) than on the 11 Nov protest a Jewish protestor and people with her told a woman with a star of David dripping with blood on her placard that it was an issue as it was the symbol of Judaism, not specifically Israeli and the person carrying it apologised and put it down.
Fair enough. A good example of how the marches have been largely self-policing. It is unfortunate that the Israeli flag has that symbol. It makes messing with the flag problematic.
 
Just wondering is it ok to hold placard saying Israel is a state built on ethnic cleansing?

Rather than drawing comparisons with Nazis

Which I dont find helpful. Or that historically accurate.

But looking at the history of the formation of the State of Israel does anyone here have problem with it being said its a Settler colonial state founded on an act of ethnic cleansing?

That this ethnic cleansing and oppression of Palestinians has continued to this day in different ways?

That Zionist is a racist political program.

As my reading of the history ( by both Palestinian and Israeli Jews ) is that this is factually correct.

That Israel is a racist state. And this is not all about Netanyahu.

This racist oppression of Palestinians has taken place under right and left governments over Israels history.
 
As I get impression sometimes arguments about using Nazi comparisons are about not wanting any criticism of Israel state that undermines it raison d'être
 
Unfortunately it's the obvious point that some of those fleeing massive oppression in WWII became oppressors themselves. The imagery is grim as fuck but is it incorrect?
 
Of more interest and historically accurate is links with Mussolini fascism and section of Zionist movement in the 1930s. Had an influence on right wing Zionism
 
'Correct' or not is irrelevant and meaningless. But it's both anti-semitic and highly problematic.

Using symbols to liken an entire religion and/or Jewish people to the Nazi regime and Holocaust is racist.

In no other context would doing something like that be OK on here or on the wider left. I feel about as sympathetic for those being nicked as I would for the EDL for burning a Koran or the KKK walking about with a lynching mock-up. Fuck them. And fuck defending them.

And some of the social media sources and information people are using and repeating on here uncritically is absolutely shocking; pro-Assad loons, conspiracy theorists, anti-semites, the full pack of dodgy left anti-imperialists, etc.

These threads are full of that kind of thing, absolutely depressing and enraging politics.
 
The book in question didn't compare an entire religion or the Jewish people to the Nazis. It compared the Zionist project to the Nazis.
I appreciate that there is a saying about not judging books by their covers and all that, but at the same time, if you insist, perhaps with the best will in the world, on designing a book/pamphlet cover that looks super racist, people are going to make certain assumptions about it.
For context, I am very critical of the Turkish state, and I'm not that well informed about Pakistani politics but I'm sure there are lots of valid reasons to criticise the current Pakistani government as well. But if someone went "hey, do you want to help me distribute this pamphlet, it's full of thoughtful, well-argued criticisms of the policies of Erdogan and the AKP?", and they'd decided to make the front cover a picture of someone taking a big shit on the crescent moon, I would probably give that one a miss as well.
 
Anyway, if people want to discuss something other than the great wisdom of sticking nazi symbols on top of Jewish ones, this Wednesday 29th is the UN's official day of solidarity with the Palestinian people, so think there's going to be lots of things happening then. Think there's meant to be national student walkouts happening:
And a Manchester event targeting Fisher German:

Sure other things will be happening in other places.
 
Confirmed that there'll be four simultaneous demos targeting Elbit's landlords tomorrow at 2, London, Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester:
All out for Palestine on the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People. Wednesday 29th November at 2pm

London, 21 Ironmonger Lane, EC2V 8EY

Birmingham, 326 High Street, Harbourne, B17 9PU

Manchester, St Peter’s Square

Liverpool, Exchange Station, Tithebarn St

Take action against Fisher German, landlords for Elbit Systems, Israel’s largest arms company.
I won't be at any of them cos of work, but good luck to em. The protesters that is, not Fisher German.
 
I mean, I'm not a fan of the criminalisation, but the symbolism is really cack-handed as well. Life would be a lot easier in this area if the Israeli state hadn't made one of the main symbols of Judaism the center of the flag, but unfortunately they have, and that being the case, it's probably best to try to avoid sticking a swastika in the middle of a star of david. If you absolutely completely feel like you cannot stop yourself from using a swastika, maybe try to find a non-star-of-david way to make your point?

I don't think the CPGB(ML) are being naive, though.
 
I don't think the CPGB(ML) are being naive, though.
I mean, we're talking here about a group who managed to think "let's get our tiny Leninist sect to form an unprincipled electoral mash-up with George Galloway, I can't see any way that could go wrong", so I wouldn't say they're not-naive? But yeah, on this particular issue I don't think it's naivety that led them to that pamphlet cover, I think they made a conscious choice, in the context of a Palestinian solidarity movement that's been consistently undermined by accusations of antisemitism, to design a pamphlet cover that looks racist as fuck. And eight years down the line, it's paid off for them, cos it's generated more publicity for their shitty little sect than anything else has in probably decades. Hooray?
Aye, bunch of dodgy Stalinoid loons.
There's been a fair few times over the last few weeks, looking at the posturing of Erdogan and the Turkish government on this issue, when I've found myself thinking "oh, are air strikes on civilians bad now? Hmm, that's a bit of a change." The same goes for the Assad enthusiasts of the CPGB(ML).
 
Anyway, while I have plenty of criticisms of ACORN, this is top stuff:

This morning [Monday 27th], members of community union ACORN have taken simultaneous action against three companies across England, blockading their entrances and shutting them down because of their involvement in the ongoing war in Gaza.

Leeds_BAE_1.jpg


In Birmingham, people linked arms and held banners to block the entrance of Meggitt. In Bristol, people linked arms and used locks to blockade Leonardo, preventing workers from getting in. In Leeds, BAE shut for the day, with workers turning away after similar action. All of these companies manufacture or provide components and systems for Israeli military aircraft being used in the bombardment of Gaza.

Birmingham_Meggitt.jpg


From housing to public transport to the cost of living crisis, ACORN brings people together to take action on the issues affecting our members and our communities. Nurses, shop workers, delivery drivers, carers, parents: we come together and organise in our communities to fight for a better quality of life; a dignified and comfortable life for all.

For that reason, we cannot stand by while the UK government that claims to act in our name, and companies on our doorstep, in our communities, encourage and profit from the widespread destruction of the lives of nurses, shop workers, delivery drivers, carers, parents and children elsewhere in the world.

More than 14,000 Palestinian people, up to half of them children, have been killed by the Israeli state since this war began. Nearly 2 million people have been displaced and more than 50% homes in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed.

That’s why we have come together to stand with the people of Gaza, community to community, to say enough is enough! No to companies in our communities profiteering from the death of children! Ceasefire now!
 
Turns out my post upthread about there being four simultaneous demos against Fisher German on Wednesday was inaccurate, cos it ended up being five - London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle.
Anyway, Elbit's only UK recruiters have now broken ties with them:

After weeks of action, the sole recruiters for the British operations of Israel’s largest weapons company, Elbit Systems, have confirmed via email to Palestine Action that they ended their association with Elbit on the evening of the 29th November. For two months, activists in the Palestine Action network had disrupted iO Associates at their premises across the country, to impede their ability to recruit roles for Israel’s war machine.

iO Associates recruited the likes of engineers, software developers, and finance staff for positions across the sites of the British branch of Israel’s largest weapons company, Elbit Systems. Elbit are the largest supplier to the occupation military, providing the vast majorities of its drones, munitions, surveillance gear, and parts for its tanks, jets, and precision missiles. From Britain specifically, they manufacture parts for Israel’s killer drones, along with weapons sights, tank parts, and more, exporting these technologies to Israel in great volume yearly. This is the nature of the business that IO was Associates with, and were IO Associates biggest client.

In response to their facilitation of Elbit’s criminal activities, iO’s offices were stormed and occupied in Manchester on the 1st September, and again on the 7th October. Activists painted iO offices red on October 9th in London, Reading, and Manchester. They were forced to vacate their Manchester offices from the 11th October, after the premises were also stormed by the Youth Front For Palestine, and then finally targeted in Edinburgh twice, on the 11th and 17th October. After being forced to vacate their offices, having their online presence tarnished, and (as confirmed to us by former employees) losing their staff who resigned in opposition to their arms trade partnership, iO Associates have finally cut ties with Israel’s weapons trade.

This is part of an expansive strategy by Palestine Action, by disrupting the suppliers and facilitators of Elbit’s presence in Britain. It has seen Elbit’s accountants (Edwards), haulage providers (Kuehne + Nagel), landlords (JLL) and many other complicit companies targeted, alongside the hundreds of actions at Elbit sites themselves, continuing to resist the presence of Elbit warmongers in Britain, and constantly reminding those associated with them that they have blood on their hands.

As a result of iO Associates dropping Elbit Systems, the recruiters have been removed as a target of Palestine Action’s campaign. All targets who still facilitate Israel’s weapons trade are listed on elbitsites.uk
 
Fair enough. A good example of how the marches have been largely self-policing. It is unfortunate that the Israeli flag has that symbol. It makes messing with the flag problematic.

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I dug out this photo, which I took in Tel Aviv in 1998. I thought it was a great piece of graffiti and certainly summed up the zeitgeist at that time.

Maybe less so today. But at least it's still not a swastika.
 
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