Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You'd have wanted Klaus Barbie to walk free, for him to escape prosecution
Northern Ireland dissident activity
- Thread starter Rimbaud
- Start date
Thaw
Aye like, so it is.
They are treated the same way now. They are prosecuted now, and they were prosecuted before.
They were not treated the same way before the ceasefire when paramilitaries were prosecuted (as long as they weren't MI5 or informers or it was in some way embarrassing to the state) whilst security personnel were not even properly investigated.
Why keep peddling the lie that its just soldiers being 'persecuted' now and everyone else has just been let off?
I'd be quite happy for a full investigations and prosecution of historic paramilitary (all of them, not just IRA) violence if it meant the state actors were also properly investigated and prosecuted. I'm not bothered about them going to Maghaberry but it would be good for folk to have their day in court.
flypanam
Eat crisps
They could just close the roads again.
Thaw
Aye like, so it is.
DPP: The state is at disadvantage in Troubles probes but there is no prosecution bias against security forces
Asked about the number of prosecutions, Mr McGrory, who retires in the autumn after six years in post, cites previously released figures that the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) has prosecuted seven republicans, three loyalists, and three soldiers.
“So I’m confused as to where the perceived imbalance is?” he says. “I mean it’s just simply not the case.”
If the police come to us with a file on someone regarded as a mainstream republican it would be looked at and determined on the evidence.”
Asked about the number of prosecutions, Mr McGrory, who retires in the autumn after six years in post, cites previously released figures that the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) has prosecuted seven republicans, three loyalists, and three soldiers.
“So I’m confused as to where the perceived imbalance is?” he says. “I mean it’s just simply not the case.”
If the police come to us with a file on someone regarded as a mainstream republican it would be looked at and determined on the evidence.”
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
You cannot say that a paratrooper shooting innocent people ...which was then covered up...is ok?
Are you for real?
Where the fuck is justice there? Plenty IRA men and women and even suspected IRA were locked up ... quite a few were innocent.
Your moral compass is arseways
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Was there - not a Para, light infantry - and the sectarianism when I was there (early '80s) was painfully obvious. Loyalists could and did get away with everything up to and including murder, Catholics and/or republicans weren't able to get away with anything, including standing around chatting, or having a pint in a bar.
As an aside, my Grandad - light infantry until he became a Para when the regt was founded in WW2 - disowned the Paras for the murderous behaviour in 72/73. Never went to a regimental function again, after that. Reckoned the General Staff used the Paras as attack dogs, and that the regt had recruited too many psychos.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
People know about Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday. They don't tend to know about the individual murders, assaults and rapes carried out by on and off-duty Paras, except maybe that cunt Lee Clegg. People also don't know about the institutional indifference, and the tacit agreement to not prosecute soldiers for crimes committed under cover of The Crown. That's also why the few soldiers convicted, serve such short sentences, and why crimes committed by soldiers in Malaya, Kenya etc are only just being looked into, cursorily.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Are you seriously trying to equate actions carried out by paramilitary groups and the British Army? A British soldier can’t use any of those arguments, especially in the case of Bloody Sunday. No witnesses? Literally thousands of people on the streets that day, plus the Army keep records of who is posted where and is assigned what job, ballistics can trace bullets back to the type and issue of gun and a whole multitude of things that will point to that soldier being the person who killed those civilians. The only ‘argument’ he can make is that he thought he was under attack, yet the Saville enquiry concluding that they weren’t and that all the civilians killed were innocent.
Also, over 19,000 Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries passed through the courts during the Troubles (including those arrested post-2000 for crimes committed during the Troubles). You can count on one hand the amount of soldiers who done time for any of their actions here, despite the fact that they killed 148 innocent civilians and 33 children under the age of 16. Yet you have the cheek to sit here and call for equality of treatment for soldiers? P-lease
Passed through courts where normal legal procedure had been set aside, too. Let's not forget that the supposed "rule of law" in the 6 counties, was nothing approaching a rule of law.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
He'd have fellated Barbie on the courtroom steps, afterward.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The old "we heard shots" lie that had already been used - as per General Sir Frank Kitson's doctrine - for 20 yrs previously in other "police actions".
Mordi
Amoral adventurist
I think this is something that's often overlooked, especially in regard to what the actual functioning was, and not just when it was usefully ignored. As an example, as someone who'd grown up in the Province I was still shocked at the time to hear that the protestors who occupied (and rightfully smashed up) the Raytheon factory in Derry in 2006 were to be tried in a Diplock (i.e. no jury) court. I believe public pressure in that case meant that the CPS abandoned that plan, but moved the case to Belfast where the jury were thought to be less sympathetic. Both obviously continuations of tactics that were routine throughout Northern Ireland's existence and whose institutionalistation means they continue to have a profound effect. All infrastructure in the North West leads to Coleraine (an at the time predominantly Protestant though increasingly mixed town) rather than the more populous Derry. The economic effect is undisputed but the impact on policing and courts is more insidious.
Interestingly, one of the handful of links on google for this story that's still active is from Urban....on the Wales subforum.
Thaw
Aye like, so it is.
Does prosecuting Stakeknife count as part of this witch-hunt? I'm not expecting to see many "I stand with Stakeknife" t-shirts.
Operation Kenova: Files on IRA agent Stakeknife sent to Public Prosecution Service - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
"Jon Boutcher, the head of Operation Kenova, and his team has prepared files containing evidence regarding a number of offences outlined in the investigation's terms of reference - including murder, kidnap, torture, malfeasance in a public office and perverting the course of justice.
Those files are now in the process of being made available to the Public Prosecution Service for consideration.
Operation Kenova was launched in 2016 amid concerns that Stakeknife had been involved in kidnap, torture and murder by the Provisional IRA during the Troubles and that these alleged crimes were preventable. Up to 50 killings were investigated, some as far back as the 1970s."
Operation Kenova: Files on IRA agent Stakeknife sent to Public Prosecution Service - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
"Jon Boutcher, the head of Operation Kenova, and his team has prepared files containing evidence regarding a number of offences outlined in the investigation's terms of reference - including murder, kidnap, torture, malfeasance in a public office and perverting the course of justice.
Those files are now in the process of being made available to the Public Prosecution Service for consideration.
Operation Kenova was launched in 2016 amid concerns that Stakeknife had been involved in kidnap, torture and murder by the Provisional IRA during the Troubles and that these alleged crimes were preventable. Up to 50 killings were investigated, some as far back as the 1970s."
Cheesepig3
Cheese. Cheese. Cats.
My time was a little later; in Int.
I was part of a very successful op resulting in prosecution, and significant jail time subsequently, for 2 x Loyalist paramilitaries.
The arrests were while i was on duty, our OC cautioned us not to talk about it even in fully cleared briefings, in case we got filled in by the Royal Highland Fusiliers on the base and their officers withdrew cooperation with our ops.
Sectarian, much?
Ironic given the original 1969 mission.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Are you asking if I'm sectarian? Nope. I saw what I saw, and having the Green Slime talking down to me is a joke. Your people spent much more effort colluding with the loyalists, than they did prosecuting them. 'Sectarian' would be me saying 'those fucking republicans and catholics deserved everything they got from the RUC, the UVF and the rest of the loyalist alphabet soup'.
Cheesepig3
Cheese. Cheese. Cats.
Ah.
No.
I wasn't Muppet.
Sigs.
Part - sometimes - of the malign Kermit empire but absolutely not of one mind.
The Billiards Table Boys, for example, failed to join us carrying super sneaky backpacks or in kinetic evenings down Londonderry.
Not "your people".
Not at all. My task was very straightforward support of law against criminals. Thanks.
And if you weren't RHF I'm not accusing you of sectarianism. RHF I am. Criminal scum. As well as brave soldiers (Bosnia)
krtek a houby
Sail hatin'
It's Derry, a chara.
Cheesepig3
Cheese. Cheese. Cats.
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
It always was Derry before it wasnt. And the vast majority of people on the island of Ireland still call it Derry.
Eta.
Derry City Council...
City of Derry Airpot..
Derry fc
City of Derry Rugby...
Even the Apprentice Boys of Derry.
It's also on the cards to remove the "London" part and call it Derry since a motion by the council in 2015. On 23 July 2015, the council voted in favour of a motion to change the official name of the city to Derry and to write to Mark H. Durkan, Northern Ireland Minister of the Environment, to ask how the change could be effected.
Everyone knows it as Derry because that was it's name (Doire) prior to the London being added in the 1600s as part of the plantation of Ulster.
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krtek a houby
Sail hatin'
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Multiple stories about a suspected ‘MI5 informer’ being behind the recent cross-border Operation Arbacia dragnet against NIRA in The Irish News Belfast Telegraph, The Times etc in the last few days:
www.irishnews.com
www.irishnews.com
www.irishnews.com
www.thenational.ae
www.irishnews.com
www.irishnews.com
www.irishnews.com
www.irishnews.com
www.irishnews.com
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
www.thetimes.co.uk
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
The houses at the centre of the MI5 bugging operation
AN online booking service is believed to have been used to rent a house later bugged by MI5 as part of Operation Arbacia.
Palestinian arrested as part of major surveillance operation targeting 'IRA'
A Palestinian man was being questioned in Belfast last night as part of a major MI5 surveillance operation stretching from Co Tyrone to Scotland.
More arrests expected in Operation Arbacia
POLICE have said that 'Operation Arbacia' targeting the activities of the 'IRA' is far from over.
Palestinian doctor charged over alleged New IRA links
Dr Issam Hijjawi Bassalat says he is a victim of entrapment by an MI5 agent
www.thenational.ae
Suspected agent Dennis McFadden may have fled home two weeks ago
Suspected agent Dennis McFadden may have fled his home in the outskirts of north Belfast a week before details of his activities emerged, neighbours say.
Agent Dennis McFadden may have 'bedded in' with dissidents for a decade
The man named in court as an MI5 agent is thought to have been working undercover in Northern Ireland for almost ten years.
MI5 agent Dennis McFadden used Celtic connection to gain favour with republicans
SUSPECTED agent Dennis McFadden used his contacts with Celtic fans travelling to Glasgow for Old Firm games to make connections with dissident republicans.
Suspected agent linked to 'IRA' surveillance named as Dennis McFadden
A suspected agent believed to be central to the major MI5-led operation targeting the 'IRA' has been named as Dennis McFadden.
Home bar of double agent thought to have been bugged
Members of hard line political organisation Saoradh based in north Belfast fear that a bar in the home of alleged double agent Dennis McFadden was bugged, with recordings now in the hands of MI5.
Sinn Fein members met 'MI5 spy' in loyalist heartland
Suspected MI5 agent Dennis McFadden met Sinn Fein members in a house in the heart of loyalist Carrickfergus where they exchanged party documents, Sunday Life can reveal.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Dennis McFadden: the inside man who exposed the New IRA
Dennis McFadden’s comrades in the New IRA began to worry when he vanished unexpectedly from his home in Belfast some weeks ago. The Glaswegian couldn’t be reach
www.thetimes.co.uk
MI5's New IRA sting cuts head off the snake
The New IRA was told two years ago that the suspected informant who is now accused of setting up senior dissident republicans for arrest at bugged safe houses was in the pay of the security services.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Johnny Adair convinced 'MI5 agent' Dennis McFadden foiled his murder as New IRA hunt second spy in ranks
Alleged MI5 agent Dennis McFadden is believed to have saved ex-UDA leader Johnny Adair's life in an operation which led to three dissident republicans being jailed in Scotland.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
hitmouse
Did do all Google car mistakes
Do seasoned NI-watchers have much of a view on the MI5 operation mentioned above? From what I've seen, the case against Dr Bassalat definitely looks pretty dodgy.
hitmouse
Did do all Google car mistakes
Don't really know if this should go here or in the spycops thread, but just found about an interesting new (well, not exactly breaking news cos it's from October, but doesn't seem to have been mentioned on here) angle in the latest MI5 NI operation - Dennis McFadden was directly involved in the Craigavon 2 defence campaign. See:
Revealed: British spy’s activities in Northern Ireland (Channel 4)
And a few other stories, mainly covering the same ground:
Face of 'MI5 spy' behind sting on dissident republicans (Belfast Telegraph)
Brendan McConville legal team say MI5 interference grounds for new appeal (Irish News)
Could New evidence lead to a Craigavon 2 Dismissal? (0162 Festival)
Revealed: British spy’s activities in Northern Ireland (Channel 4)
And a few other stories, mainly covering the same ground:
Face of 'MI5 spy' behind sting on dissident republicans (Belfast Telegraph)
Brendan McConville legal team say MI5 interference grounds for new appeal (Irish News)
Could New evidence lead to a Craigavon 2 Dismissal? (0162 Festival)
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
No it should be here spy cops were playing stupid games at the taxpayers expense for no reason. Stopping the IRA is worth undercover operations.
hitmouse
Did do all Google car mistakes
I mean, I've not expressed a view either way about the main Operation Arbacia prosecutions, I don't know enough about them to have an opinion but if it does turn out that the defendants are guilty of what they're accused of then I can't say I have much sympathy for them. The two aspects of this story that seem serious dodgy to me are a) tricking someone into showing up to an IRA meeting on false pretences by saying you've booked them to give a presentation about international politics at a public meeting, and b) infiltrating the legal team working on the Craigavon 2's appeal. That seems more like playing stupid games at the taxpayers' expense than stopping the IRA to me.
krtek a houby
Sail hatin'
As long as the occupation of the 6 counties continues, the IRA (or derivatives of) will exist.
One does not simply stop an ideology.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Even if it achieves fuck, all the only use for physical force republicans is community service enough litter picking and painting and there be to tired to kill anyone.
If Northern Ireland is going to be resolved it want be aided by Muppets in army surplus jackets and balaclavas.
There as useful as the us milita members
.
Murder so you can look good on an MTV documentary a new low.
If Northern Ireland is going to be resolved it want be aided by Muppets in army surplus jackets and balaclavas.
There as useful as the us milita members
.Murder so you can look good on an MTV documentary a new low.
krtek a houby
Sail hatin'
Won't be resolved by the British institutions, either.
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