Northern Ireland dissident activity

[Don Troooomp]

if you are so wilfully blind i'm not sure there's much that can be done to help you

Answer the question?

Have any IRA killers been arrested or even investigated since 2000 for crimes committed during the troubles?

Given it isn't that tough a question for those in the know, I assume you don't wish to answer. I asked because I can't find a case, and the result of the question will influence my view of the other case.

 

[Pickman's model]

Answer the question?

Have any IRA killers been arrested or even investigated since 2000 for crimes committed during the troubles?

Given it isn't that tough a question for those in the know, I assume you don't wish to answer. I asked because I can't find a case, and the result of the question will influence my view of the other case.

people have been arrested, yes, and even investigated. being as the trials aren't all over the question of whether they're 'ira killers' remains unanswered.

but if you haven't paid attention there's fuck all that can be done for you, it's not like (for example) the case of john downey's been hidden away - it's been very widely reported.

 

[Don Troooomp]

you haven't paid attention there's fuck all that can be done for you, it's not like (for example) the case of john downey's been hidden away - it's been very widely

I'm not familiar with him so I took a look, the arguments against hi. be sent to trial being,

Downey should not be sent to Belfast for trial ‘doomed to failure’, court hears - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Too long ago
Witnesses dead

Assuming that holds true for him, why not the paras?

 

[Thaw]

British state not heavy-handed against 'the paddy' oh no. ffs just look at them. And the rest.

What do you mean?

 

[Humberto]

What do you mean?

I meant it ironically. They don't seem to give a fuck. Apols if insensitive.

 

[Humberto]

I mean, allying with the DUP for starters. Totally irresponsible to say the least.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

By the way, this isn't a troll job, just a genuine question that colours the way I look at the trial in question.
If IRA members that committed murders around that time are also being hunted down, he's fair game. If such investigations have stopped, he is not.

The British army were not there to shoot civilians. No matter where they are... they're job is not to shoot civilians. But they did..in NI. Fellow citizens...You think that's something that should not be investigated?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I'm not familiar with him so I took a look, the arguments against hi. be sent to trial being,

Downey should not be sent to Belfast for trial ‘doomed to failure’, court hears - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Too long ago
Witnesses dead

Assuming that holds true for him, why not the paras?

Are you seriously equating the paras with dissidents?
The paras sent in to keep peace who ended up raiding homes, intimidating catholics, raping and blunderbussing their way round NI, shooting to kill.... and being paid by the British government in the process? You think their orders were to behave this way? I mean if that were the case and they were merely following orders then every citizen in NI deserves the right to hold the British army and paras and government to account. They went feral. Ok? Some of them. Not all. They did whatever the hell they liked. They held loaded guns to kids heads. They pointed weapons at little kids. Not..the protestant kids.

Do you not realise how sectarian NI was? Maybe you should look into that?

Imagine if your own army turned on you? Strip searched you...with out reason or cause. Raided your home...arrested you...waterboarded you...all because your political views and religion was not that of the ruling class? Because you were dogshit in the eyes of those running thr country.

Think about that.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Answer the question?

Have any IRA killers been arrested or even investigated since 2000 for crimes committed during the troubles?

Given it isn't that tough a question for those in the know, I assume you don't wish to answer. I asked because I can't find a case, and the result of the question will influence my view of the other case.

Maybe they are dead.
Seriously though. You need to know? Go research for yourself.

 

[Thaw]

Answer the question?

Have any IRA killers been ...investigated since 2000 for crimes committed during the troubles?

Not the full story of post-ceasefire investigations but there are prosecutions. Its worth noting that even the conviction rate of post-ceasefire murders is very low so its not that surprising that folk aren't piling forward to give statements.

Investigation of Former Armed Forces Personnel Who Served in Northern Ireland - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

"...the PPS for Northern Ireland has also sought to make clear that of the 26 prosecution cases brought since 2011 in relation to legacy issues, 21 of those cases have involved republican and loyalist paramilitaries and that five of those cases are currently ongoing."

 

[Baronage-Phase]

'They're just waiting for us to die off': Ex-political prisoners still face work and travel barriers

'They're just waiting for us to die off': Ex-political prisoners still face work and travel barriers
Representatives said former republican prisoners are even discriminated against when it comes to accessing psychological treatment.

 

[Thaw]

Have any IRA killers been arrested or even investigated since 2000 for crimes committed during the troubles?

Why focus on IRA? You not bothered about INLA, UVF, UFF, LVF, Red Hand commando, etc.?

The attempt to get prosecutions for the Loughinisland massacre is well documented.

 

[N_igma]

Why focus on IRA? You not bothered about INLA, UVF, UFF, LVF, Red Hand commando, etc.?

The attempt to get prosecutions for the Loughinisland massacre is well documented.

I have a sneaking suspicion he has underlying loyalist sympathies whilst being coy about it all.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I have a sneaking suspicion he has underlying loyalist sympathies whilst being coy about it all.

And he obviously thinks the IRA were the only guilty ones.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Don Troooomp
Have a read.
Parachute Regiment company accused of putting up ‘wall of silence’ for inquest

 

[Pickman's model]

I have a sneaking suspicion he has underlying loyalist sympathies whilst being coy about it all.

Certainly on the cards

 

[Pickman's model]

Maybe they are dead.
Seriously though. You need to know? Go research for yourself.

He couldn't research his way out of a wet paper bag

 

[Baronage-Phase]

https://www.channel4.com/news/1972-troubles-northern-ireland-belfast-ira-video

More for Don Troooomp

 

[Poot]

And he obviously thinks the IRA were the only guilty ones.

I'm not speaking for anyone else here except myself, but in England in the 1980s when I was a child the IRA were the name that we had that represented all of the bad stuff in Northern Ireland about which I was embarrassingly ignorant. They were the bad guys. I can't even say where I was getting my 'facts' from, but certainly the IRA were terrorists and no one else was mentioned, really. I never even questioned the logic or wondered what they might be rebelling against until I was far too old to be so ignorant. I'm embarrassed but I would put money on not being alone in my ignorance.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I'm not speaking for anyone else here except myself, but in England in the 1980s when I was a child the IRA were the name that we had that represented all of the bad stuff in Northern Ireland about which I was embarrassingly ignorant. They were the bad guys. I can't even say where I was getting my 'facts' from, but certainly the IRA were terrorists and no one else was mentioned, really. I never even questioned the logic or wondered what they might be rebelling against until I was far too old to be so ignorant. I'm embarrassed but I would put money on not being alone in my ignorance.

I'm sure the government and media had a lot to do with that.

 

[Poot]

I'm sure the government and media had a lot to do with that.

Yes and no. Yes it did, but it must have been repeated to me by a grown up - I doubt that I would have got it from the news. I think were were much less interested in what was happening outside of our immediate vicinity and the IRA's antics were, er, closer to us personally at the time.

 

[Don Troooomp]

I have a sneaking suspicion he has underlying loyalist sympathies whilst being coy about it all.

No, just equality.
If soldiers are to be taken to court for alleged offences of that time, it's only reasonable if terrorists are treated the same way.
If one group is left using the reasonings listed in my previous post, the soldiers must be able to use the same defense.

Anything else is unfair.

 

[Humberto]

It's about proportionality. Of people defending their community. It wasn't an army against an army, was it? Hence the 'peace process'. Which looks like so much toilet paper in the hands of a frankly disastrous Tory government. People should be able to live together in this country. People revolt if the conditions and grievances are there.

 

[N_igma]

No, just equality.
If soldiers are to be taken to court for alleged offences of that time, it's only reasonable if terrorists are treated the same way.
If one group is left using the reasonings listed in my previous post, the soldiers must be able to use the same defense.

Anything else is unfair.

Are you seriously trying to equate actions carried out by paramilitary groups and the British Army? A British soldier can’t use any of those arguments, especially in the case of Bloody Sunday. No witnesses? Literally thousands of people on the streets that day, plus the Army keep records of who is posted where and is assigned what job, ballistics can trace bullets back to the type and issue of gun and a whole multitude of things that will point to that soldier being the person who killed those civilians. The only ‘argument’ he can make is that he thought he was under attack, yet the Saville enquiry concluding that they weren’t and that all the civilians killed were innocent.

Also, over 19,000 Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries passed through the courts during the Troubles (including those arrested post-2000 for crimes committed during the Troubles). You can count on one hand the amount of soldiers who done time for any of their actions here, despite the fact that they killed 148 innocent civilians and 33 children under the age of 16. Yet you have the cheek to sit here and call for equality of treatment for soldiers? P-lease

 

[krtek a houby]

No, just equality.
If soldiers are to be taken to court for alleged offences of that time, it's only reasonable if terrorists are treated the same way.
If one group is left using the reasonings listed in my previous post, the soldiers must be able to use the same defense.

Anything else is unfair.

Soldiers in NI/6 counties were terrorists. Right, Cheesepig3 ?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

No, just equality.
If soldiers are to be taken to court for alleged offences of that time, it's only reasonable if terrorists are treated the same way.
If one group is left using the reasonings listed in my previous post, the soldiers must be able to use the same defense.

Anything else is unfair.

Do you ever listen to yourself?
Or read what you write?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

No, just equality.
If soldiers are to be taken to court for alleged offences of that time, it's only reasonable if terrorists are treated the same way.
If one group is left using the reasonings listed in my previous post, the soldiers must be able to use the same defense.

Anything else is unfair.

Equality?
What? That one thing NI catholics didnt have in NI ?

You're laughable

 

[Don Troooomp]

As for the para concerned, it seems he was one of four people that could have shot the demonstrators, but there seems to be no compelling evidence to say it was actually him, that being a greater reason to forget the

Soldiers in NI/6 counties were terrorists. Right, Cheesepig3 ?

I'd agree with that in some cases, those being the ones where they murdered civilians.

 

[Don Troooomp]

Equality?
What? That one thing NI catholics didnt have in NI ?

You're laughable

Agreed (about the nasty way Catholics were treated). I'm aware they were commonly treated like shit, but sure equality in justice is absolutely essential if peace is to be maintained
You simply can't say one case is too old to bring to court, but another is still valid regardless of age.

That smacks of inequality, exactly what you rightly claim is/was a major problem.

At the end of the day, taking those men to court (Yes, both of them) can only stir up ill feelings of old and encourage more violence.

 

[Don Troooomp]

Are you seriously trying to equate actions carried out by paramilitary groups and the British Army?

Both are accused of murder
Both crimes were carried out at around the same time
Both are ancient history
Both cases have a lot of potential to cause new trouble

Perhaps you could explain the differences and how dragging 20+ year old cases is helpful.

Assuming you want paras arrested and charged, are you equally eager to see ex terrorists in court and, if not, why not?