National Action to be proscribed as a "Terrorist Organisation"

[Casually Red]

Imperialism was long before my time, the murdering scum calling themselves Irish nationalists were not. BTW, both sides. The purportedly Protestant murdering scum as well as the purportedly Roman Catholic.

By your example, we should be chiding the Italians for murdering Boadicea.

Imperialism in Ireland is happening now . It'll be there still when you've long shuffled off . And after I have . Hopefully my great grand kids will consign it to history's dustbin . Were you'll inhabit, like Oscar the fucking grouch .

 

[Casually Red]

Imperialism was long before my time, the murdering scum calling themselves Irish nationalists were not. BTW, both sides. The purportedly Protestant murdering scum as well as the purportedly Roman Catholic.

By your example, we should be chiding the Italians for murdering Boadicea.

No we should be chiding your side for arming and directing the loyalists , leading to the slaughter of hundreds of innocents in the las t. Few decades .

Worth remembering the biggest terrorist organisation in the united kingdom was/ is the UDA . Despite horrific slaughter for decades they only got proscribed in the 1990s . After they fucked up and posted all the British army files they had at their disposal all over the shankill rd and phoned the media to take pictures . That in turn exposed Brian Nelson, the guy who was sending them to their overwhelmingly innocent targets . Who was working directly for the FRU , a soldier inserted by them at the top of the UDA . His handlers answered directly to the British cabinet . That's who was supplying the files , directing him to direct the death squads . They were proscribed solely because the cabinet was embarrassed . But almost nobody ever gets convicted for membership . Despite numerous people to this day openly referring to themselves as UDA members and leaders .

Imperialisms alive and well and will outlive both of us .

 

[Casually Red]

An Irish national who wishes he wasn't.

The fervent wish that he wasn't is pretty much the only thing he has in common with his estranged countrymen .

 

[krtek a houby]

English means British?

Irish means IRA support?

 

[krtek a houby]

His petty nationalism has come out before now, and goes hand-in-hand with his barely concealed contempt for any Northerners who've shown reluctance to doff their cap to their betters.

My contempt crosses all borders for those who use violence as a means to achieve their ambitions. Be they paramilitaries or parachute regiments.

 

[krtek a houby]

The fervent wish that he wasn't is pretty much the only thing he has in common with his estranged countrymen .

I'm Irish, a chara. Despite your best attempts to paint me as otherwise.

You, on the other hand, have consistently dismissed Ireland and the people of Ireland here over the years. Hand in hand with your homophobia - see the referendum on gay marriage - and comments such as "the limp wristed Irish nation today".

You hate Ireland more than your loyalist countrymen.

 

[krtek a houby]

Indeed. The post was a very cynical, sarcastic reply to the poster who suggests the IRA are the saviours of Ireland and I should be grateful to them. They aren't and I'm not.

 

[eoin_k]

Shankhill butchers. They knew who they were and where they lived and drank, they just didn't give a shit. It was a playground for 14nth int. to hone counter insurgency techniques.

Indeed, although there are far more clear-cut examples of the state being directly responsible for political violence in Northern Ireland and of collusion between the state and loyalist paramilitaries. krtek a houby 's constant dismissal of all republican violence, as no more than knuckle-dragging ultra-nationalism strips all this context away, as does Sasaferrato 's version of events being about those violent paddies, who are all as bad as each other - green or orange. Just reconstructing the sequence of events from the late 1960s onwards doesn't fit with either of these narratives. This cycle of Violence emerged from the suppression of a popular movement for civil rights, in a deeply sectarian polity within the political control of the United Kingdom. You don't need to uncritically support every instance of republican violence, or republican politics more generally to recognise this. What was wrong with Northern Ireland in the 1960s? How did the British State and the local ruling class respond to the demand for change? How did the conflict become militarised? How was the conflict policed? Any serious assessment of the troubles would offer a more accurate account of this history.

I went to school with kids who saw there fathers killed by paramilitary death squads, with a close and murky relationship to the military. I went to school with kids who were beaten and threatened by squaddies during their childhood because their fathers were republican prisoners. I had female relatives threatened with being strip searched because they politely questioned a police officers judgement, while going about their daily business. My family had neighbours whose children were the victims of extrajudicial assassinations by the state. I feel deeply ambivalent about the history of Irish Republicanism, and any politics based around the nation state for that matter. You don't see me posting links to videos of the Wolfe Tones playing The Men behind the Wire or waxing lyrical about the Wild Geese on Urban, but it sticks in my craw when my people are represented as inherently violent animals. Those who turned towards violence did so in response to violence and injustice in there daily lives. Any judgment of their actions and the consequences of these actions needs to start off by recognising these facts and considering the possibility that some of the choices they made might have had some legitimacy. In reality, their politics were closer to those of Nelson Mandela than National Action, something he public acknowledged the day he stepped free from prison, which isn't to suggest that they should be above criticism.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Irish means IRA support?

You were liberated by them. Seems churlish not to. No idea what the EDL have done to deserve recognition?

 

[krtek a houby]

You were liberated by them. Seems churlish not to. No idea what the EDL have done to deserve recognition?

The IRA did not liberate Ireland. Unless you're trying to equate them with the men and women of 1916. Very, very different.

Do you really think all Irish people support the murder gangs that operated up until the GFA?

Do you support the IRA?

 

[eoin_k]

'Your loyalist countrymen', not 'ours', 'yours'. 'You' live with them, in 'your' country, not my problem, I'm alright jack. Here's the nationalism at play. It's not the Irish, it's those uncouth thugs in the North, who live in the United Kingdom. We have a nation, with borders, and a state and we will guard them: blue-shirt nationalism. It's also ironic that krtek a houby seems oblivious to how imperialism and partition might have contributed to the social conservatism in Ireland, North and South. Or, how Sinn Fein might not have an umblemished record on these issues, but was way ahead of the other parties (North and South) on , say, women's reproductive freedom in the 1980s. Something Irish Republican women fought for.

 

[likesfish]

The main British state had a policy of effectively hands off ulster till it all blew up and then seem surprised with what the fuck had been going on the army used to call it sleepy hollow and mostly and excuse for shooting and fishing.
their was no grand strategy not that PIRA were any more clued up they seriously thought the British were going to surrender at the talks and the loyalists frankly no clue at all

 

[krtek a houby]

'You're loyalist countrymen', not 'ours', 'yours'. 'You' live with them, in 'your' country, not my problem, I'm alright jack.

The flip side to Casually Red's dismissal of the Republic and the people that live there.

 

[likesfish]

Ulster was a playground for the sort of spook that likes that sort of thing and a dumping ground for others.
the real career focus was chasing the Russians with the rather cynical suggestion was the IRA made for good live training

 

[eoin_k]

The flip side to Casually Red's dismissal of the Republic and the people that live there.

You're no better than the German anti-Deutsch I once saw waving an Israeli flag as they attacked a Kurd on an anti-fascist demo for wearing a keffiyeh.

 

[krtek a houby]

'Your loyalist countrymen', not 'ours', 'yours'. 'You' live with them, in 'your' country, not my problem, I'm alright jack. Here's the nationalism at play. It's not the Irish, it's those uncouth thugs in the North, who live in the United Kingdom. We have a nation, with borders, and a state and we will guard them: blue-shirt nationalism. It's also ironic that krtek a houby seems oblivious to how imperialism and partition might have contributed to the social conservatism in Ireland, North and South. Or, how Sinn Fein might not have an umblemished record on these issues, but was way ahead of the other parties (North and South) on , say, women's reproductive freedom in the 1980s. Something Irish Republican women fought for.

Replying to your edit (and I was sure you had me on ignore):

I give Sinn Fein the benefit of the doubt these days; they have some very good TDs and councillors in the Republic who are doing excellent work for the communities. They believe in inclusivity and I have no problem with them as a democratic party. I can count amongst my friends a prominent SF member, so it's not all black and white.

But I'll never ever raise a glass to murderers. Be they Irish, British or whoever.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The IRA did not liberate Ireland. Unless you're trying to equate them with the men and women of 1916. Very, very different.

Different in what way?

 

[krtek a houby]

You're no better than the German anti-Deutsch I once saw waving an Israeli flag as they attacked a Kurd on an anti-fascist demo for wearing a keffiyeh.

Isn't it grand craic altogether when us Irish lads get their willys out to see who's more Irish than the rest?

And I say "lads", lads because it is a very blokey thing.

 

[krtek a houby]

Different in what way?

Do you support the IRA; you know, the people who brought you Eniskillent, Warrington etc?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Do you support the IRA; you know, the people who brought you Eniskillent, Warrington etc?

Are you suggesting the 'men and women of 1916' who liberated your country didn't form the IRA?

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[krtek a houby]

Are you suggesting the 'men and women of 1916' who liberated your country didn't form the IRA?

You still haven't answered my question. Do you support the IRA?

Or maybe you support the lads that brought you Omagh? I mean, yes, technically, it was the "Real IRA" but you seem to think that these thugs share a glorious history with the men and women of 1916...

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you suggesting the 'men and women of 1916' who liberated your country didn't form the IRA?

michael collins, out in 1916, was never in the ira i see

 

[krtek a houby]

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You still haven't answered my question. Do you support the IRA?

Or maybe you support the lads that brought you Omagh? I mean, yes, technically, it was the "Real IRA" but you seem to think that these thugs share a glorious history with the men and women of 1916...

Glorious history? I thought you didn't raise a glass to armed struggle?

 

[krtek a houby]

Glorious history? I thought you didn't raise a glass to armed struggle?

Do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person?

 

[eoin_k]

I'm not willy-waving so put yours away. I have you on ignore, but clicked 'show ignored content' because I was concerned for Magnus McGinty's mental health as he appeared to be talking to himself in an increasingly frustrated manner. It's easier to play to the gallery about Casually Red's social attitudes on other issues than to tackle the serious questions about the causes of political violence in Ireland. Instead you wash your hands of it, and police the political boarders of who is and isn't Irish with snide remarks about 'your country' in the North. It's hypocritical bollocks and it's victim blaming - or at least blaming those who've shown reluctance to be victims.

 

[krtek a houby]

I'm not willy-waving so put yours away. I have you on ignore, but clicked 'show ignored content' because I was concerned for Magnus McGinty's mental health as he appeared to be talking to himself in an increasingly frustrated manner. It's easier to play to the gallery about Casually Red's social attitudes on other issues than to tackle the serious questions about the causes of political violence in Ireland. Instead you wash your hands of it, and police the political boarders of who is and isn't Irish with snide remarks about 'your country' in the North. It's hypocritical bollocks and it's victim blaming - or at least blaming those who've shown reluctance to be victims.

"I have you on ignore, but..."

Lol.

CR has for years, derided those who don't see things his way, as somehow not being Irish. He and this Magnus character are doing it in this very thread. But somehow those snide remarks can be excused.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person?

I believe it's illegal to support the IRA.
I would if I was Irish given they liberated my country though.