National Action to be proscribed as a "Terrorist Organisation"

[krtek a houby]

I believe it's illegal to support the IRA.
I would if I was Irish given they liberated my country though.

Still haven't answered the question. Do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person?

Do you think every Irish person supports the IRA?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I have answered your question.

 

[krtek a houby]

I have answered your question.

Nope, some wishy washy tat about it being illegal to support them.

So, again - do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person? Do you think all Irish people support the IRA? Do you support the Real IRA? Do you believe that the events of 1916 are entirely compatible with Warrington, Eniskillen or Omagh? Do you think Irish people are thankful for those and other attacks carried out in their name?

 

[eoin_k]

The UDA, The IRA and all the other paramilitary boys gangs. Engaging in peaceful means is just way too sissy for them. Much better to slaughter innocents.

There's scant difference between all these flag waving boy bands. But I guess there's always going to be groupies...

So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's Only the River's Run Free? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read Tell them Everything by Margaretta D'Arcy; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Nope, some wishy washy tat about it being illegal to support them.

So, again - do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person? Do you think all Irish people support the IRA? Do you support the Real IRA? Do you believe that the events of 1916 are entirely compatible with Warrington, Eniskillen or Omagh? Do you think Irish people are thankful for those and other attacks carried out in their name?

What has this to do with a thread I started about National Action?

 

[krtek a houby]

What has this to do with a thread I started about National Action?

You are Alice from The Good Terrorist & I claim my five pounds.

 

[krtek a houby]

So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's Only the River's Run Free? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read Tell them Everything by Margaretta D'Arcy; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...

Whataboutery.

Where are all the female Republicans on urban? Why is it always a handful of lads, trying to get one over the other fella?

I'd take it more seriously if it wasn't the same old suspects.

 

[Pickman's model]

So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's Only the River's Run Free? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read Tell them Everything by Margaretta D'Arcy; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...

not to mention the auld ladies land league of the land war era. or cumann na mban

 

[Pickman's model]

So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's Only the River's Run Free? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read Tell them Everything by Margaretta D'Arcy; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...

 

[krtek a houby]

Anyways, got to rush off for a bit.



Tiocfaidh ar

 

[eoin_k]

Whataboutery.

Where are all the female Republicans on urban? Why is it always a handful of lads, trying to get one over the other fella?

I'd take it more seriously if it wasn't the same old suspects.

Women in having something more important to do with their time than talking shit about politics on the internet shocker! But, why play the ball when you can play the man? Eh! You're a complacent bigoted fool who hasn't been able to make a coherent response to a single point I've raised.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You are Alice from The Good Terrorist & I claim my five pounds.

Seriously if you're so interested in the IRA then why not start your own thread about it instead of hijacking this one?

 

[Pickman's model]

Women in having something more important to do with their time than talking shit about politics on the internet shocker! But, why play the ball when you can play the man? Eh! You're a complacent bigoted fool who hasn't been able to make a coherent response to a single point I've raised.

And not just you I bet

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Anyways, got to rush off for a bit.



Tiocfaidh ar

Do you have anything insightful to add about National Action other than 'they remind me of the IRA' you obsessive crank?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Nope, some wishy washy tat about it being illegal to support them.

So, again - do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person? Do you think all Irish people support the IRA? Do you support the Real IRA? Do you believe that the events of 1916 are entirely compatible with Warrington, Eniskillen or Omagh? Do you think Irish people are thankful for those and other attacks carried out in their name?

Yes.

 

[Pickman's model]

I believe it's illegal to support the IRA.
I would if I was Irish given they liberated my country though.

not so sure they liberated it, in that the post-1922 state did not in all ways live up to its name of 'irish free state'.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

not so sure they liberated it, in that the post-1922 state did not in all ways live up to its name of 'irish free state'.

Liberated it from British imperialist rule then. Or part of the country anyway.

 

[Pickman's model]

Liberated it from British imperialist rule then. Or part of the country anyway.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I agree with that point.

 

[eoin_k]

Look at the eejits in their little uniforms. Reminds me of the nationalists back in Ireland. The boys in their military garb. Fuck nationalism and fuck flag waving.

Here's krtek a houby's first intervention on a thread about a group on the British far right, a political milieu with multiple links to Ulster Loyalism and one which has repeatedly been courageously confronted by street activists who have included republicans among their ranks. But these neo-nazis must be right eejits, since they remind him of Irish Nationalists (he means Republicans, which suggests that he is either being dishonest or is completely out of his depth). In either case it suggests a very crude understanding of nationalism.

The distinction drawn by Benedict Anderson, a thinker not known for his sympathy for Irish Republicanism, between civic nationalism and folk nationalism might help clear things up for him. The former may well be a social construct, as Anderson argues in the go-to book on the social construction of nationalism,* but it is a different beast from the latter. Whatever its flaws, it has more to do with the legacy of the French Revolution, 1848 etc. than with Nazi fascism, which might explain the place held by Northern prods of the United Irishmen in the Republican pantheon (alongside Robert Emmet, Erskine Childers, Roger Casement, Ronnie Bunting...). The hard lessons to confront Irish Republicans from their own history are more akin to the twentieth-century legacy of left-wing politics and national liberation struggles around the world than the dangers of blood and soil nationalism. But krtek a houby probably wouldn't get to feel so smug if he pointed to the mess in South Africa** or Palestine** and go: 'Ha! That reminds me of the poor fuckers living on the other side of the Island I was born on.'


* i.e. The sort of material krtek a houby should lap up if he wants to seem informed without having his worldview challenged.

** Both of these are also weak analogies, but at least they have the merit of being linked through Empire, common politics, occasional acts of solidarity, and a shared moment that promised resolution but ended more (Palestine) or less (South Africa?) in disappointment.

 

[eoin_k]

Liberated it from British imperialist rule then. Or part of the country anyway.

I think the impact Brexit could have on the whole island is a good reminder of the limits to the South's political freedom: a point that has ironically enough induced an apoplexy of vile and bigoted nationalistic rage in krtek a houby on more than one occasion.

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you suggesting the 'men and women of 1916' who liberated your country didn't form the IRA?

show me the man

 

[Sasaferrato]

Indeed, although there are far more clear-cut examples of the state being directly responsible for political violence in Northern Ireland and of collusion between the state and loyalist paramilitaries. krtek a houby 's constant dismissal of all republican violence, as no more than knuckle-dragging ultra-nationalism strips all this context away, as does Sasaferrato 's version of events being about those violent paddies, who are all as bad as each other - green or orange. Just reconstructing the sequence of events from the late 1960s onwards doesn't fit with either of these narratives. This cycle of Violence emerged from the suppression of a popular movement for civil rights, in a deeply sectarian polity within the political control of the United Kingdom. You don't need to uncritically support every instance of republican violence, or republican politics more generally to recognise this. What was wrong with Northern Ireland in the 1960s? How did the British State and the local ruling class respond to the demand for change? How did the conflict become militarised? How was the conflict policed? Any serious assessment of the troubles would offer a more accurate account of this history.

I went to school with kids who saw there fathers killed by paramilitary death squads, with a close and murky relationship to the military. I went to school with kids who were beaten and threatened by squaddies during their childhood because their fathers were republican prisoners. I had female relatives threatened with being strip searched because they politely questioned a police officers judgement, while going about their daily business. My family had neighbours whose children were the victims of extrajudicial assassinations by the state. I feel deeply ambivalent about the history of Irish Republicanism, and any politics based around the nation state for that matter. You don't see me posting links to videos of the Wolfe Tones playing The Men behind the Wire or waxing lyrical about the Wild Geese on Urban, but it sticks in my craw when my people are represented as inherently violent animals. Those who turned towards violence did so in response to violence and injustice in there daily lives. Any judgment of their actions and the consequences of these actions needs to start off by recognising these facts and considering the possibility that some of the choices they made might have had some legitimacy. In reality, their politics were closer to those of Nelson Mandela than National Action, something he public acknowledged the day he stepped free from prison, which isn't to suggest that they should be above criticism.

You make some good points, and having read Ann Cadwallader's book, I am certainly not going to say that the British Army's behaviour in NI was completely honourable, it is very clear that it was not. From that book, it is also clear that members of the police service, not only condoned Protestant violence, they took part in it.

There were plenty of 'knuckle draggers' on the Republican side, I met quite a few of them. It wasn't until considerably later that it occurred to me that I met many fewer Protestant 'knuckle draggers'. I now know why, I didn't then.

Northern Ireland was a stain on Britain's character, not because it was 'Imperialist', as the deluded Magnus appears to think (Northern Ireland is British by choice), but because the British Government colluded with Protestant murderers. This was shameful, and those responsible have not been brought to much deserved justice.

I can understand the bitterness expressed in your post, in a very much smaller way, the independence referendum in Scotland has divided families, and destroyed friendships. We don't however, have people murdered simply because they belong to the wrong faith, and that really is the crux. The people of Northern Ireland are not inherently violent animals, in the main. Animals isn't a description I often use to describe human beings, but actions by both Republican and Protestant groups brought them into that category. No matter how imbalanced society seems to be, it does not condone the acts of murder and torture enacted by the thugs. To drag a mother out of her house, in front of her children, then proceed to murder her, on the suspicion that she may have been an informer*, is so beyond the pale it defies comprehension. It was the act of barbarous animals.

The acts of those on both sides who planted bombs, carried out extra-judicial executions and maimed by destroying their victims knees, cannot be excused. Not now, not ever. It would also seem that some of those animals with bloody hands are now in government.**

*Murder of Jean McConville - Wikipedia
**Did Gerry Adams order this mother's murder? An IRA man claimed he has | Daily Mail Online

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You really are dense.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Totally ignores that the six counties were part of Ireland when it got colonised by the British Empire and makes some daft comparison with Scotland that ignores the social relations and class make up of both sides of the troubles.

 

[8den]

So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's Only the River's Run Free? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read Tell them Everything by Margaretta D'Arcy; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...

Considering the shameful behaviour of the IRA towards women, like; murdering Jean Mc Conville, the intimidation of the McCartney sisters, the cover-up of sex abusers like Liam Adams, I really wouldn't be touting the IRA's past a feminist organisation.

 

[Pickman's model]

Considering the shameful behaviour of the IRA towards women, like; murdering Jean Mc Conville, the intimidation of the McCartney sisters, the cover-up of sex abusers like Liam Adams, I really wouldn't be touting the IRA's past a feminist organisation.

i hope you wouldn't be touting at all.

 

[eoin_k]

... I really wouldn't be touting the IRA's past a feminist organisation.

Where did I say that you clown? My point was that representing Irish Republicanism as some sort of 'boys club' overlooked the prominent role women played in this movement and the solidarity that the wider women's movement offered them. Just like spamming a thread about a neo-Nazi organisation in Britain with bullshit about Irish Republicanism erases the point of this thread. Now why would you want to do that?

 

[8den]

Where did I say that you clown? My point was that representing Irish Republicanism as some sort of 'boys club' overlooked the prominent role women played in this movement and the solidarity that the wider women's movement offered them. Just like spamming a thread about a neo-Nazi organisation in Britain with bullshit about Irish Republicanism erases the point of this thread. Now why would you want to do that?

You were lauding the IRA's record as a progressive feminist pro woman movement, and there are thousands of woman who would disagree.

 

[eoin_k]

You were lauding the IRA's record as a progressive feminist pro woman movement, and there are thousands of woman who would disagree.

Why do you and your mate insist on banging on about the IRA on a thread about British neo-Nazis? All I have tried to do is point out that demonising Republicans as some sort of monsters, who are collectively responsible for all the shit that has happened in the six counties over the last half century is bullshit. I've used quite a lot of qualifying language in my posts - you and your mate are the ones trying to paint everything in black and white with sweeping generalisations.