Middle class anxiety

[Smokeandsteam]

She's been rightly getting criticism from even quite fervent supporters of hers.

Owen Jones has criticised her, not for the idea, not for the fundamental breach of liberal democracy, and not even for the lame identity politics at the heart of her idea. He’s attacked the idea because there are no black women in the lash up

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Owen Jones has criticised her, not for the idea, not for the fundamental breach of liberal democracy, and not even for the lame identity politics attacked. He’s attacked the idea because there are no black women in the lash up

This report is very Twitter, I’m not a huge fan of Owen but context is missing:

 

[Treacle Toes]

Owen Jones has criticised her, not for the idea, not for the fundamental breach of liberal democracy, and not even for the lame identity politics attacked. He’s attacked the idea because there are no black women in the lash up

Nope. That isn't what was said at all.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

She’s now apologised for the omission that Clive Lewis also criticised.

She hasn’t apologised for the abysmal politics at the heart of the entire proposal or for any of the scumbags she’s proposed to bypass the electorate with yet:

Caroline Lucas apologises for omitting BAME women from proposal

 

[YouSir]

She’s now apologised for the omission that Clive Lewis also criticised.

She hasn’t apologised for the abysmal politics at the heart of the entire proposal or for any of the scumbags she’s proposed to bypass the electorate with yet:

Caroline Lucas apologises for omitting BAME women from proposal

Irrelevant really, she's fired up the perpetually outraged hearts of the anything-but-the-Left Remain core and bought some of that sweet sweet relevance that the Lib Dems have been stealing of late. Walking it all back is just an afterthought.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Irrelevant really, she's fired up the perpetually outraged hearts of the anything-but-the-Left Remain core and bought some of that sweet sweet relevance that the Lib Dems have been stealing of late. Walking it all back is just an afterthought.

That people who profess to hold serious progressive politics are positively musing over a proposal to install an unelected group of enthusiastic neo-liberals as a ‘national unity’ government is revealing of the utter sewer that some elements of middle class remain has descended into.

If anything proves that what happens when the middle class get ‘anxious’ isn’t pleasant here is all the evidence needed.

 

[Proper Tidy]

There's something very fishy about this proposal for an unelected technocracy... wait there it's all white

 

[YouSir]

That people who profess to hold serious progressive politics are positively musing over a proposal to install an unelected group of enthusiastic neo-liberals as a ‘national unity’ government is revealing of the utter sewer that some elements of middle class remain has descended into.

If anything proves that what happens when the middle class get ‘anxious’ isn’t pleasant here is all the evidence needed.

Probably a bit generous to say they've 'descended' into it, I think a lot of people have always vaguely assumed that, while there were elections, there was still a 'sensible agreement' that the right people would be the ones to win them. Saying it out loud is just exasperation, not revelation.

 

[sleaterkinney]

That people who profess to hold serious progressive politics are positively musing over a proposal to install an unelected group of enthusiastic neo-liberals as a ‘national unity’ government

You just invent these hyperbolic straw men so you can denounce them.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

You just invent these hyperbolic straw men so you can denounce them.

Ah, the deckchair puller is back.

Given that this is a proposal by Caroline Lucas:

I’m calling for a cabinet of women to stop a disastrous no-deal Brexit | Caroline Lucas

please do let me know how I’ve constructed a strawman?

 

[sleaterkinney]

Ah, the deckchair puller is back.

Given that this is a proposal by Caroline Lucas:

I’m calling for a cabinet of women to stop a disastrous no-deal Brexit | Caroline Lucas

please do let me know how I’ve constructed a strawman?

Pretty much every noun you use.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Pretty much every noun you use.

Let’s walk you through this slooooowly.

1. Caroline Lucas has proposed, in writing, the formation of a cabinet of women to ensure a no deal Brexit doesn’t happen. The link is above so you can read it.
2. She proposes that this cabinet forms a government of ‘national unity’
3. Put another way Caroline Lucas is proposing that she gets the chance to choose the next government without trivial matters like an election getting in the way.
4. She has excluded those committed to social democracy and McDonnell’s economic programme from her government in waiting.
5. Instead she favours enthusiastic supporters of cuts - Swinson, tories - Allen and labour politicians hostile to the leadership and fully signed up to 3rd way advanced liberalism- Cooper.
6. Rather than condemn the disturbing entitlement behind the proposals, or query what the blowback in terms of support for the far right might be if Lucas’s insane idea was put into practise, those professing to hold serious progressive politics - like the guardian - have published it or - like Lewis and Jones - have focussed on the colour of the neo-liberals

Where exactly, in among this shite, is the strawman I’ve constructed?

Have you got anything useful to say or is your post above the best you can do?

 

[sleaterkinney]

Let’s walk you through this slooooowly.

1. Caroline Lucas has proposed, in writing, the formation of a cabinet of women to ensure a no deal Brexit doesn’t happen. The link is above so you can read it.
2. She proposes that this cabinet forms a government of ‘national unity’
3. Put another way Caroline Lucas is proposing that she gets the chance to choose the next government without trivial matters like an election getting in the way.
4. She has excluded those committed to social democracy and McDonnell’s economic programme from her government in waiting.
5. Instead she favours enthusiastic supporters of cuts - Swinson, tories - Allen and labour politicians hostile to the leadership and fully signed up to 3rd way advanced liberalism- Cooper.
6. Rather than condemn the disturbing entitlement behind the proposals, or query what the blowback in terms of support for the far right might be if Lucas’s insane idea was put into practise, those professing to hold serious progressive politics - like the guardian - have published it or - like Lewis and Jones - have focussed on the colour of the neo-liberals

Where exactly, in among this shite, is the strawman I’ve constructed?

Have you got anything useful to say or is your post above the best you can do?

Ok, who are people who profess to hold serious progressive politics that you are talking about?. An article in the guardian?

Also:

3, what election did Johnson have?
4,5 They would have to be excluded in order to get cross party support.

 

[chilango]

sleaterkinney are you in favour of Lucas's proposal?

 

[Smangus]

My Tuscan holiday will be curtailed this year, only 4 weeks instead of the usual 6

This is very stressful, I may have to get more counselling than usual and can't now face my pottery class as a result.

 

[butchersapron]

Lucas has spent the last decade or so putting herself forward as the face or facilitator of a progressive alliance - a cross party alliance that used to explicitly exclude the tories but now includes them - so Lucas herself is the answer to that first question in kinney's fleeting near content free response above.

 

[killer b]

I think its hilarious that such a vacuous, risible bit of empty identity politics would fail so badly by it's own standards, and it's fine to point this out, as long as the bad politics of the invitees is also being rinsed (most of the criticism I've seen does manage to do this).

 

[danny la rouge]

3, what election did Johnson have?

In order to be PM in the UK, one has only to be the leader of the governing party. The party able to form a majority after any election governs. Its leader is PM. There is no separate election for PM, other than in the constituency he/she stands in.

PMs who took over leadership of the governing party between elections include May, Brown, Major, Callaghan, Alec Douglas Home, McMillan, Eden, Churchill, Chamberlain, Baldwin, etc.

Lucas, on the other hand, is proposing something that was not included in the manifestos voted for in the last election. She is not proposing to replace the leader of the governing party, but replacing the government. That is something we normally have a general election to decide.

 

[sleaterkinney]

sleaterkinney are you in favour of Lucas's proposal?

I would be if favour of a cross party alliance to stop a no deal brexit, get an extension and call an election.

 

[sleaterkinney]

In order to be PM in the UK, one has only to be the leader of the governing party. The party able to form a majority after any election governs. Its leader is PM. There is no separate election for PM, other than in the constituency he/she stands in.

PMs who took over leadership of the governing party between elections include May, Brown, Major, Callaghan, Alec Douglas Home, McMillan, Eden, Churchill, Chamberlain, Baldwin, etc.

Lucas, on the other hand, is proposing something that was not included in the manifestos voted for in the last election. She is not proposing to replace the leader of the governing party, but replacing the government. That is something we normally have a general election to decide.

I would say that a no deal brexit wasn't in the manifestos either, on which the tories failed to win a majority.

 

[butchersapron]

Funny to see liberals advocating strict imperative mandates for positions they agree with and undemocratic lash-ups for other stuff not so strictly to be adhered to that they oppose. Principles in action.

 

[Pickman's model]

I would say that a no deal brexit wasn't in the manifestos either, on which the tories failed to win a majority.

i thought the days in which manifestos represented what parties would do were long gone, that the unprincipled scoundrelry of the ruling class was no longer hidden behind such veils was widely understood

 

[Steel Icarus]

Not following through on manifesto promises or plans is not a legal requirement, and though there might be political consequences for failing to implement a manifesto or even having straight-up lied in one, there are no legal consequences.

 

[danny la rouge]

I would say that a no deal brexit wasn't in the manifestos either, on which the tories failed to win a majority.

What’s your argument here? Because No Deal wasn’t in the manifesto it’s OK to overthrow the government and replace it with Lucas’ handpicked junta?

Incidentally the Tories do have a majority. With the help of the DUP. That’s why they can form a government. If Lucas can form a coalition after a GE, fine. But that’s not her suggestion.

 

[chilango]

I would be if favour of a cross party alliance to stop a no deal brexit, get an extension and call an election.

Thanks.

 

[chilango]

(Not at all) coincidentally we've seen unelected governments imposed elsewhere in the EU recently. Becoming an increasingly viable option for capital when democracy isn't delivering for them. That it's being enabled by "moderates" adds extra momentum to this direction of travel.

 

[killer b]

Not that I think it's a great idea or ever likely to happen, but surely if Lucas' handpicked junta were miraculously able to cobble together a majority then they'd be as legitimate a government as any other coalition?

 

[Steel Icarus]

I can't see how without a GE

 

[Steel Icarus]

Majorities don't automatically mean governance

 

[Pickman's model]

I can't see how without a GE

i can't see how even with a ge