Cohen, Little Britain, 'not encouraging racial hatred but class hatred'

[redsquirrel]

This is a great article, Cohen has always backed the poor, etc, his views on the Iraq War have nothing to do with this article.

WTF - in the very piece you've quoted he's praising the neo-liberal New Labour government. This is crazy, Cohen is total fucking scum

 

[Calamity1971]

Walliams might be racist, the truth I think is more that Walliams looks down on everyone, not just people of other races. The only person Walliams rates is himself.

I am afraid I find Walliams odious in the extreme. And that means that I don't appreciate his comedy either.

He's creeped me out for a long time. This confirmed it for me.
Men Only: Inside the charity fundraiser where hostesses are put on show

 

[Celyn]

Indeed, yes. I wanted to mention that but couldn't remember what it was called. Clever of you!

 

[Pickman's model]

This is a great article, Cohen has always backed the poor, etc, his views on the Iraq War have nothing to do with this article.

you have no understanding of what makes a good article let alone a great article if you say this without irony about any article by nick cohen

You know nothing about nc if you think he is other than a shit

 

[two sheds]

It's one of the comedy series I've always felt that I should take a look at because I missed it at the time.

So ta people, I now know not to bother

 

[maomao]

It's one of the comedy series I've always felt that I should take a look at because I missed it at the time.

So ta people, I now know not to bother

Even ignoring it's extensive contribution to racism in the UK it was catchphrase comedy of the shallowest and most boring kind. Really pissed me off at the time that Tom Baker took part in it.

 

[chilango]

I don't to read the article to agree that, yes, Little Britain was overtly classist.

...and racist.

I don't think that there's much to dispute on that.


It's also a pretty widespread reading of Little Britain...the Vicki Pollard character has been the subject of criticism for years.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

treelover have a read of this. I think this sums up the class dynamics:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communications/assets/documents/research/working-paper-series/EWP13.pdf

Cohen, as others have pointed out is a twat, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day

 

[felixthecat]

David Walliams gives me the creeps. I've never read his books, so I can't give an opinion and hated what I saw of Little Britain. As a person he makes my skin crawl

 

[Griff]

Been saying Walliams is a cunt for years, felt there must have been something wrong with me as he he seemed to get more and more popular, appearing on more and more things.

At last the truth is out and the blind can now see!

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Alf Garnett played the same joke. Laugh at the minority, but do it 'ironically'.

I’m not sure you are right about Alf Garnett. In much of “Till Death Us Do Part” it is Alf who is the butt of the joke, whose prejudices are held up prominently for all to see, and whose edifice of ignorance, bluster and bravado ends up getting smashed to bits. He was a racialist, sure, but the rest of his family weren’t. Alf nearly always was the one who was made to look foolish.

 

[Humberto]

I’m not sure you are right about Alf Garnett. In much of “Till Death Us Do Part” it is Alf who is the butt of the joke, whose prejudices are held up prominently for all to see, and whose edifice of ignorance, bluster and bravado ends up getting smashed to bits. He was a racialist, sure, but the rest of his family weren’t. Alf nearly always was the one who was made to look foolish.

Okay, I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject, I've just known people who make 'ironic' jokes regress into outright racism. Not sure where Alf Garnett fits into that, but it is a thing ime.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Okay, I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject, I've just known people who make 'ironic' jokes regress into outright racism. Not sure where Alf Garnett fits into that, but it is a thing ime.

Fair enough. But I don’t recall much that was ironic about Alf Garnett anyway. He was just trapped and powerless, and blamed everyone else, blacks, Irish, Jews, women, trade unions etc for all the failings in his life. His prejudices were up front and open for all to see, which actually made it easier to show them up for what they were. No irony to hide behind.

 

[Humberto]

Fair enough. But I don’t recall much that was ironic about Alf Garnett anyway. He was just trapped and powerless, and blamed everyone else, blacks, Irish, Jews, women, trade unions etc for all the failings in his life. His prejudices were up front and open for all to see, which actually made it easier to show them up for what they were. No irony to hide behind.

Well the fact that Alf Garnett blamed others for his own failings and ended up looking stupid for it is ironic.

 

[Humberto]

In the same way as Sid the Sexist perhaps.

 

[freakydave]

The BBC shows that are successful are pretty much always the low middle class person who thinks that they are a big willy (Dad's Army, The Office, Fawlty Towers)
I can't imagine why mediocrity and self delusion would be so appealing to British people ho ho ho

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

In the same way as Sid the Sexist perhaps.

Sorry, dunno.

 

[Reno]

Alf Garnett is probably the most obvious example of people not understanding that just because a narrative is about a objectionable character, that doesn't mean it it approves of that characters attitudes. I really thought word had gotten out about that since the 60s.

 

[Humberto]

And others who don't quite get the irony, and find it encourages their bigotry. Who no doubt think,'good old Alf'.

 

[Serge Forward]

Till death us do part was indeed a piss take of working class tories with Alf the butt of the joke. The writer, Johnny Speight, was leftish. Unfortunately it backfired somewhat with thick racist cunts holding the character up as a hero. They would do that though, wouldn't they.

 

[Sasaferrato]

David Walliams gives me the creeps. I've never read his books, so I can't give an opinion and hated what I saw of Little Britain. As a person he makes my skin crawl

Indeed. I've always found him a trifle unwholesome. Little Britain, I watched one episode, going 'wtf' for most of the time. Little Britain was downright nasty.

 

[freakydave]

I didn't mean to press 'post reply' on that

 

[maomao]

I’m not sure you are right about Alf Garnett. In much of “Till Death Us Do Part” it is Alf who is the butt of the joke, whose prejudices are held up prominently for all to see, and whose edifice of ignorance, bluster and bravado ends up getting smashed to bits. He was a racialist, sure, but the rest of his family weren’t. Alf nearly always was the one who was made to look foolish.

Irony isn't a good description of what was going on with Alf Garnett. He was a caricature held up to ridicule but he was also a sympathetic character. My white intellectual university teacher parents thought it was great. My black neighbours wouldn't watch it. I've heard people pine for the days when you could 'get away with' having characters like Alf Garnett on tv in the last 12 months. Whatever it was it wasn't a succesful attack on racism.

 

[A380]

It definitely encouraged unfunny lazy catchphrase comedy. A pity as both of them have done good work elsewhere.

 

[Guineveretoo]

I never liked Little Britain and couldn't understand why those two vile individuals were so feted and congratulated for their nastiness.

Glad that this is being more widely recognised now, although it seems that Walliams has become a bit of a "national treasure" now, so only has to make some vague apology and he is forgiven.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Irony isn't a good description of what was going on with Alf Garnett. He was a caricature held up to ridicule but he was also a sympathetic character. My white intellectual university teacher parents thought it was great. My black neighbours wouldn't watch it. I've heard people pine for the days when you could 'get away with' having characters like Alf Garnett on tv in the last 12 months. Whatever it was it wasn't a succesful attack on racism.

Just goes to show how difficult humour and race is. My parents both thought it was racist, so I did too at the time, but friends later got me to see it in a different light, and now I can’t help but still see it differently. Ethnic minorities were not the only target of Garnett’s invective. In all cases he was the one who ended up looking like a twat, often with a one line withering put-down from his long-suffering wife. That he was sometimes drawn sympathetically just shows that there was some depth to the writing, often lacking in sitcoms. (For ‘often’ read ‘nearly always’).

 

[SpookyFrank]

Last time I recall Walliams' name coming up was on account of him hosting that 'men only' event where the female staff were harassed and groped. Funny how he keeps getting in these situations where he looks a right cunt purely by accident eh?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Just goes to show how difficult humour and race is. My parents both thought it was racist, so I did too at the time, but friends later got me to see it in a different light, and now I can’t help but still see it differently. Ethnic minorities were not the only target of Garnett’s invective. In all cases he was the one who ended up looking like a twat, often with a one line withering put-down from his long-suffering wife. That he was sometimes drawn sympathetically just shows that there was some depth to the writing, often lacking in sitcoms. (For ‘often’ read ‘nearly always’).

In this particular case, I don't think it is that difficult tbh. Whatever the intention behind the writing, its effect was all too often that what was said on TV the night before became what was said in the playground the day after.

In that sense, doesn't it exemplify one of the main ideas behind Black Lives Matter? If you want to know what is or isn't an effective way to counter racism where you are not yourself a direct victim of it, a good place to start is to ask those who are its direct victims.

 

[two sheds]

In all cases he was the one who ended up looking like a twat, often with a one line withering put-down from his long-suffering wife.

I'd forgotten that Dandy Nichols was ace

 

[Sasaferrato]

I wouldn't watch much of the comedy of yesteryear. Some of it was quite funny in its day, but not now.