Cohen, Little Britain, 'not encouraging racial hatred but class hatred'

[Puddy_Tat]

Cohen, as others have pointed out is a twat, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day

indeed.

just because one twat says another twat is a twat, the fact that the first twat is a twat doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong about the second twat being a twat, or that they are any less of a twat because they have identified the second twat as a twat

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Whatever the intention behind the writing, its effect was all too often that what was said on TV the night before became what was said in the playground the day after.

Fair point. Kids watching grown-up stuff don’t always come away with the same message.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm spoilering this cos it really is fucking horrible. Fucking, fucking horrible. Utterly staggering that it was ever shown on primetime tv. Line after line after line, each more hateful than the previous, uncontested, and producing laugh after laugh after laugh.

Spoiler: hateful Alf Garnett shit

 

[Serge Forward]

Indeed. Vile stuff, but that wasn't even the worst of it. You had Manning every week on the Comedians and programmes like Live Thy Neighbour.

Mind you, you also had left wing programming like Days of Hope and many of the Play for Today episodes getting big viewing figures - and they wouldn't get shown now either.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

indeed.

just because one twat says another twat is a twat, the fact that the first twat is a twat doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong about the second twat being a twat, or that they are any less of a twat because they have identified the second twat as a twat

Precisely.

 

[freakydave]

I'm spoilering this cos it really is fucking horrible. Fucking, fucking horrible. Utterly staggering that it was ever shown on primetime tv. Line after line after line, each more hateful than the previous, uncontested, and producing laugh after laugh after laugh.

In a perfect world that would be uncontroversial. It is nihilism it's that joke about how the fear of being replaced is justified since we are just worthless and replaceable

I think that blaming art for racism is just a lazy justification for the flaws of the system. Things are only funny if they are true

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think that blaming art for racism is just a lazy justification for the flaws of the system.

I don't know what you mean by this. I would think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that art both is produced by a culture and helps to produce that culture. It doesn't appear out of nowhere, but neither is it simply an innocent bystander.

 

[freakydave]

I don't know what you mean by this. I would think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that art both is produced by a culture and helps to produce that culture. It doesn't appear out of nowhere, but neither is it simply an innocent bystander.

Art is not an innocent bystander, but it is not something that comes out of a vacuum either. Nobody is angry with the Italian geniuses for their painting naked boys for the Catholcs

Little Britain is a reaction to being a rich and important country, and the fact that the British people are generally not rich or important.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Ok so that went weird.

 

[maomao]

Fwiw I've now spent the last two hours singing the In Sickness and In Health theme tune which in itself is a classic.

 

[Sweet FA]

Just goes to show how difficult humour and race is. My parents both thought it was racist, so I did too at the time, but friends later got me to see it in a different light, and now I can’t help but still see it differently. Ethnic minorities were not the only target of Garnett’s invective. In all cases he was the one who ended up looking like a twat, often with a one line withering put-down from his long-suffering wife. That he was sometimes drawn sympathetically just shows that there was some depth to the writing, often lacking in sitcoms. (For ‘often’ read ‘nearly always’).

In some ways it doesn't really matter how it's seen. At least one poster on here has described the effect the programme had on them during their childhood - the racist abuse the day after the programme was on etc.

 

[Doodler]

How come Walliams gets more stick than Matt Lucas?

 

[Serge Forward]

Problem with Till Death Us Do Part, Johnny Speight's piss take of a racist Tory was a classic road to hell paved with good intentions. In Sickness and Health was worse as it didn't have the left wing Tony Booth taking the piss out of him. Good intentions aside, for any black, Asian, Irish family watching this stuff at the time and the repercussions from racist knobheads taking it literally, it would have been horrific.

 

[two sheds]

Problem with Till Death Us Do Part, Johnny Speight's piss take of a racist Tory was a classic road to hell paved with good intentions. In Sickness and Health was worse as it didn't have the left wing Tony Booth taking the piss out of him. Good intentions aside, for any black, Asian, Irish family watching this stuff at the time and the repercussions from racist knobheads taking it literally, it would have been horrific.

Yeh true and even worse because if someone objects "you've not no sense of huuuuuuuuuuuumour " or "you just don't understand British huuuuuuumour"

 

[Raheem]

How come Walliams gets more stick than Matt Lucas?

I don't pay enough attention to be sure, but suspect it is because he is more of a dick.

 

[freakydave]

Ok so that went weird.

I try not to express my opinions on politics or Italian boys

 

[Doodler]

I don't pay enough attention to be sure, but suspect it is because he is more of a dick.

I pay even less attention, assumed Lucas and Walliams were equally responsible for Little Britain.

 

[BristolEcho]

He's creeped me out for a long time. This confirmed it for me.
Men Only: Inside the charity fundraiser where hostesses are put on show

Was just about to say the same.

I was in school when Little Britain came out. I thought it was amusing at the time if boring after a couple of episodes. I was reminded of the character called "Ting-Tong" today. Fuck sake. I remember children and adults repeating it so no doubt it spilt into daily abuse. I also remember the impact of "chav" and how that was used against us as young people.

BBC saying it was a different time, but was it? We watched it again around 2013 and thought it was awful.

 

[maomao]

How come Walliams gets more stick than Matt Lucas?

More exposure outside Little Britain with BGT and his stupid kids' books. Matt Lucas may be as big an arsehole but the public have had him rammed down their throats slightly less.

 

[Doodler]

More exposure outside Little Britain with BGT and his stupid kids' books. Matt Lucas may be as big an arsehole but the public have had him rammed down their throats slightly less.

That makes sense, ta.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Was just about to say the same.

I was in school when Little Britain came out. I thought it was amusing at the time if boring after a couple of episodes. I was reminded of the character called "Ting-Tong" today. Fuck sake. I remember children and adults repeating it so no doubt it spilt into daily abuse. I also remember the impact of "chav" and how that was used against us as young people.

BBC saying it was a different time, but was it? We watched it again around 2013 and thought it was awful.

No it wasn't. That's a massive cop out on their part. Really shit response imo.

 

[Raheem]

BBC saying it was a different time, but was it?

It started on the radio in 2000, so that's actually halfway back to the 70s.

 

[agricola]

How come Walliams gets more stick than Matt Lucas?

thats how hard Tim punched him in Spaced

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It started on the radio in 2000, so that's actually halfway back to the 70s.

So what's the excuse for 'Come fly with me', which was commissioned in 2010.

 

[Raheem]

So what's the excuse for 'Come fly with me', which was commissioned in 2010.

Come on, that's not hard maths.

 

[Reno]

No it wasn't. That's a massive cop out on their part. Really shit response imo.

I don't remember many people taking offence to Little Britain at the time and I do think things have changed massively over the last couple of decades. I felt similar to BristolEcho, I thought Little Britain was funny for a couple of episodes till it became clear that the same jokes got recycled every week.

Little Britain was massive in the gay community because it was the first show where a gay man satirised gay men and we were laughing with rather than at him. I believe that at the time the general idea was that we were laughing with the characters in recognition rather than at them. The show was massively camp and by the LGBT community at least the characters where considered with affection. The stereotyping was offset by absurdist comedy not far from Monty Python which created a distancing effect and which made it clear that this was its own universe, not dissimilar to The League of Gentlemen which came a later later (and which also is being pounced on.) The stereotpes got pushed so far that they the characters became somewhat surreal. It really hasn't dated well and I didn't think it was all that funny the first time round but I also can't pretend we all were massively offended by Little Britain back then.

Rather than singling out Little Britain, I have a bone to pick with a comedy genre known as "character comedy" which is particularly popular in the UK. I always there there is a degree of cruelty to sneering at someone for whatever reason which is at the root of that type of comedy, combine with a self congratulatory vibe from the performers. We are supposed to admire the accuracy of the character satirised by the performer, often aided by elaborate make up and costuming. It's a genre which has never really made laugh, the same characters got wheeled out every week with the same jokes. Harry Enfield has a lot to answer for. I even see this in Mike Leigh's early tv plays and films and I always found this sneering attitude in British comedy off-putting. Little Britain was part of that bit also almost a satire of it.

 

[frogwoman]

It wasnt a different time! Loads of people attacked little britain at the time. I remember endless threads about it on here.

 

[Reno]

It wasnt a different time! Loads of people attacked little britain at the time. I remember endless threads about it on here.

There were those who loved it and those who hated it, just with every other programme on here (save untouchable The Wire of course). I don't see a lot of outrage at its politics, mainly complaints that it started out funny and then lost it or that it never was all that funny:

The Big LITTLE BRITAIN Poll: Favourite Character(s)?

Characters are from series one, only. Lou & Andy This poll's gonna be a right kerfuffle. Emily Howard Unconvincing transvestite who enjoys doing ladies' things, like flower arranging and spewing up Lambrini. Marjorie Dawes She just loves a bit a cake, she does, she just loves a bit...

www.urban75.net

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/little-britain.25913/

 

[Saul Goodman]

It wasnt a different time! Loads of people attacked little britain at the time. I remember endless threads about it on here.

I tried one episode and refused to watch it again. Apart from it being unbelievably shit, I think Walliams was the main reason I hated it. There's something about him that makes my skin crawl.

 

[butchersapron]

That this is happening - us talking - is great. Don't give power back to censors.