Cohen, Little Britain, 'not encouraging racial hatred but class hatred'

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't remember many people taking offence to Little Britain at the time and I do think things have changed massively over the last couple of decades. I felt similar to BristolEcho, I thought Little Britain was funny for a couple of episodes till it became clear that the same jokes got recycled every week.

Little Britain was massive in the gay community because it was the first show where a gay man satirised gay men and we were laughing with rather than at him. I believe that at the time the general idea was that we were laughing with the characters in recognition rather than at them. The show was massively camp and by the LGBT community at least the characters where considered with affection. The stereotyping was offset by absurdist comedy not far from Monty Python which created a distancing effect and which made it clear that this was its own universe, not dissimilar to The League of Gentlemen which came a later later (and which also is being pounced on.) The stereotpes got pushed so far that they the characters became somewhat surreal. It really hasn't dated well and I didn't think it was all that funny the first time round but I also can't pretend we all were massively offended by Little Britain back then.

Rather than singling out Little Britain, I have a bone to pick with a comedy genre known as "character comedy" which is particularly popular in the UK. I always there there is a degree of cruelty to sneering at someone for whatever reason which is at the root of that type of comedy, combine with a self congratulatory vibe from the performers. We are supposed to admire the accuracy of the character satirised by the performer, often aided by elaborate make up and costuming. It's a genre which has never really made laugh, the same characters got wheeled out every week with the same jokes. Harry Enfield has a lot to answer for. I even see this in Mike Leigh's early tv plays and films and I always found this sneering attitude in British comedy off-putting. Little Britain was part of that bit also almost a satire of it.

yeah there are bum notes in a lot of Mike Leigh's stuff. tbh I was thinking more about 'come fly with me' when I wrote that. I saw a tiny bit of that once and my jaw dropped that it had been commissioned. That was less than ten years ago. What I object to most is the hand wringing by the BBC now. Take it down or don't take it down, but don't excuse yourselves by declaring that it was a different time. Many, or indeed most, of the commissioning editors working there ten years ago are still there now.

 

[Reno]

yeah there are bum notes in a lot of Mike Leigh's stuff. tbh I was thinking more about 'come fly with me' when I wrote that. I saw a tiny bit of that once and my jaw dropped that it had been commissioned. That was less than ten years ago. What I object to most is the hand wringing by the BBC now. Take it down or don't take it down, but don't excuse yourselves by declaring that it was a different time. Many, or indeed most, of the commissioning editors working there ten years ago are still there now.

It's not just the BBC, every broadcaster, streaming service, film studio, etc which has back catalogue of popular content which is now considered problematic are shitting themselves in the current cultural moment. They all are dithering about what to do and where to draw the line. It all kicked off when HBO Max took Gone With the Wind of it's streaming service.

 

[Sweet FA]

It's not just the BBC, every broadcaster, streaming service, film studio, etc which has back catalogue of popular content which is now considered problematic are shitting themselves in the current cultural moment. They all are dithering about what to do and where to draw the line. It all kicked off when HBO Max took Gone With the Wind of it's streaming service.

yeh, it's great isn't it?

 

[Reno]

yeh, it's great isn't it?

We'll see. It's certainly important to draw the attention to problematic representations and to challenge them but I'm also opposed to censorship. HBO Max is doing the right thing. They are bringing Gone With the Wind back with a programme which discusses its racism.

 

[Idris2002]

I had a German colleague who loved Little Britain. It appealed to his sense of . . . humour.

Think about that. Take as long as you need.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

We'll see. It's certainly important to draw the attention to problematic representations and to challenge them but I'm also opposed to censorship. HBO Max is doing the right thing. They are bringing Gone With the Wind back with a programme which discusses its racism.

I also oppose censorship, although even that is a bit blurry at the edges. Eg censoring The Dam Busters to change the name of the dog doesn't change anything important about the film. But at its worst, reediting films/tv shows to take out the worst bits misses the point that the assumptions contained within those programmes go beyond just one or two nasty words. In most instances (Dam Busters would be an exception), I'd rather things were just taken down rather than messed around with.

Also, of course, a streaming service taking something off its list isn't really censorship if the thing is still freely available to buy elsewhere.

There is a danger in all this of course that fuckwits at places like the BBC will overreact and start taking down, say, Richard Prior, or just anything that might be offensive to anyone. Hence their 'times have changed' cop-out is something that rings alarm bells for me - they're not acknowledging any active role or responsibility in the process.

 

[Reno]

I had a German colleague who loved Little Britain. It appealed to his sense of . . . humour.

Think about that. Take as long as you need.

When I lived in California at the time and I told people that before I lived in the U.K. the first thing many people wanted to talk about was Little Britain. The show was huge in the UK and in many other countries, so what's odd about it also being popular in Germany ? Unless you want to go down the road of that particular stereotype.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I think it's worth saying that editing content is not a new thing at all. Lots of films only get played on TV with large and significant cuts, often changing the entire meaning and focus, and that's been the case for as long as I've been watching TV. The uncut Saturday Night Fever is, uh, a bit different - it was originally R-rated rather than PG.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think it's worth saying that editing content is not a new thing at all. Lots of films only get played on TV with large and significant cuts, often changing the entire meaning and focus, and that's been the case for as long as I've been watching TV. The uncut Saturday Night Fever is, uh, a bit different - it was originally R-rated rather than PG.

I know. And it's always irritated the fuck out of me.

I would think less so now with streaming services, though.

 

[Idris2002]

When I lived in California at the time and I told people that before I lived in the U.K. the first thing many people wanted to talk about was Little Britain. The show was huge in the UK and in many other countries, so what's odd about it also being popular in Germany ? Unless you want to go down the road of that particular stereotype.

As a violent alcoholic who likes to kill people with car bombs, I do indeed want to go down the road of that particular stereotype.

I should have said that my colleague's a good lad, which is why I was genuinely surprised that he was a fan of that Little Britain shite.

 

[Reno]

I think it's worth saying that editing content is not a new thing at all. Lots of films only get played on TV with large and significant cuts, often changing the entire meaning and focus, and that's been the case for as long as I've been watching TV. The uncut Saturday Night Fever is, uh, a bit different - it was originally R-rated rather than PG.

Saturday Night Fever was released in cinemas in both a PG and a R-rated cut when it came out, which was quite rare.
Of course films used to get cut massively on the telly, especially on ITV (often just to accommodate commercials) but over the last couple of decades there was a move away from that.

 

[mojo pixy]

Particularly hated the portrayal of disability in LB. They're equally guilty too, Lucas with "I don't like it" Andy and Walliams with "Eh ehhh" Anne. Fuck them, they encouraged the whole nation to laugh at vulnerable weird people, and they enriched and enfamed themselves through it. Wankers.

I came in looking to be cross about idiots caring more about statues than people, found this instead, it'll do.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Saturday Night was released in cinemas in both a PG and a R-rated cut when it came out, which was quite rare.
Of course films used to get cut massively on the telly, especially on ITV (often just to accommodate commercials) but over the last couple of decades there was a move away from that.

Apparently the TV version is cut down from even the PG cinema release.

It goes in phases really, and new media often challenge that - "video nasties" in the 80s but GoT would never have got through without streaming for instance. What I really mean though is that a lot of pundits like to pretend that either the stuff they want to ban, or the people censoring the stuff they like, are entirely new and unprecedented phenomena, the woke police or the degenerate state of culture etc, and it's entirely untrue.

 

[Reno]

Apparently the TV version is cut down from even the PG cinema release.

It goes in phases really, and new media often challenge that - "video nasties" in the 80s but GoT would never have got through without streaming for instance. What I really mean though is that a lot of pundits like to pretend that either the stuff they want to ban, or the people censoring the stuff they like, are entirely new and unprecedented phenomena, the woke police or the degenerate state of culture etc, and it's entirely untrue.

GoT was produced by HBO, a subscription channel and they've been able to screen and then later produce R-rated content since the 70s.

It used to be right wingers like Mary Whitehouse and British tabloids demanding for films and tv programs to be banned and often succeeding. Now it's right wingers complaining about "political correctness" ruining everything and that liberals are trying to ban stuff, when that's rarely the case. I suppose simply not repeating an old comedy programme isn't technically the same, but when there is a big fuss around it, it certainly looks like it.

 

[Orang Utan]

Saturday Night Fever was released in cinemas in both a PG and a R-rated cut when it came out, which was quite rare.
Of course films used to get cut massively on the telly, especially on ITV (often just to accommodate commercials) but over the last couple of decades there was a move away from that.

That Robocop edit that ITV broadcast is hilariously bowdlerised. 'Ladies leave!'

 

[Reno]

That Robocop edit that ITV broadcast is hilariously bowdlerised. 'Ladies leave!'

I think it was Radio Times who used to note when films were cut, so I usually avoided those. I remember Jaws and Towering Inferno often being on in the afternoon, with every bloody and fiery death edited into incoherence.

 

[belboid]

That Robocop edit that ITV broadcast is hilariously bowdlerised. 'Ladies leave!'

It’s the ‘you blackguard’ bit that always amused me.

 

[UrbaneFox]

How come Walliams gets more stick than Matt Lucas?

Maybe because Lucas appears to have some talent, where as Walliams strikes me as just being lucky enough to have latched on / be stood next to Lucas, Syd Little style.

Also Lucas is openly gay, whereas Walliams shifts about unconvincingly with quickly-divorced wives, ok wife. Anyway, my gaydar goes off when Walliams appears, so I think he's a fake.

When will he have a Philip Schofield moment? Plus I don't like his teeth and gums.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Lucas was George Dawes.

Walliams has never done anything other than shite afaik.

 

[Orang Utan]

'openly gay' ffs

 

[agricola]

GoT was produced by HBO, a subscription channel and they've been able to screen and then later produce R-rated content since the 70s.

It used to be right wingers like Mary Whitehouse and British tabloids demanding for films and tv programs to be banned and often succeeding. Now it's right wingers complaining about "political correctness" ruining everything and that liberals are trying to ban stuff, when that's rarely the case. I suppose simply not repeating an old comedy programme isn't technically the same, but when there is a big fuss around it, it certainly looks like it.

Indeed - Rome was a bit more full-on than GoT was, and that was pre-streaming (pre-legal streaming anyway).

 

[Raheem]

Also Lucas is openly gay, whereas Walliams shifts about unconvincingly with quickly-divorced wives, ok wife. Anyway, my gaydar goes off when Walliams appears, so I think he's a fake.

Whatever's wrong with Walliams, I don't think his sexual orientation and private life are fair game or anyone else's concern.

 

[Doodler]

Maybe because Lucas appears to have some talent, where as Walliams strikes me as just being lucky enough to have latched on / be stood next to Lucas, Syd Little style.

Also Lucas is openly gay, whereas Walliams shifts about unconvincingly with quickly-divorced wives, ok wife. Anyway, my gaydar goes off when Walliams appears, so I think he's a fake.

When will he have a Philip Schofield moment? Plus I don't like his teeth and gums.

Walliams seems uncomfortable in his own skin. I wish him contentment in a life as a private individual.

 

[seventh bullet]

Okay, I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject, I've just known people who make 'ironic' jokes regress into outright racism. Not sure where Alf Garnett fits into that, but it is a thing ime.

His creator said he was a caricature of all the bigoted pieces of shit he'd come across and had to endure during his working class childhood. You are most definitely supposed to laugh at him not with him (a fair few white people didn't see that) but it's not from a place of middle class sneering at the horrid little proles. However, the past is a foreign country and all that...

 

[Orang Utan]

Walliams seems uncomfortable in his own skin. I wish him contentment in a life as a private individual.

Oh fuck off

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Whatever's wrong with Walliams, I don't think his sexual orientation and private life are fair game or anyone else's concern.

dunno

i've not watched enough of his stuff to have a firm opinion but IF someone was closet gay / bi, and IF they are making a career (or part of one) out of taking the piss out of gay / bi people (I can't comment on whether any of his stuff is / was) then there's possibly an argument for outing them.

likewise politicians / religious leaders that peddle homophobic / family values shite

 

[Orang Utan]

You can’t assume anyone’s sexuality though can you?

 

[Doodler]

Oh fuck off

Fuck off yourself. It would be very slightly better all round if Walliams was not in the public eye.

 

[Orang Utan]

Fuck off yourself. It would be very slightly better all round if Walliams was not in the public eye.

That wasn’t why I told you to fuck off, so fuck off some more

 

[Doodler]

That wasn’t why I told you to fuck off, so fuck off some more

Since you obviously hope that I'll demand to know the actual reason you told me to fuck off, you can fuck the fuck off.