Middle class anxiety
- Thread starter Proper Tidy
- Start date
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Indeed. But they aren’t, and nor can they be given she hasn’t invited a majority of MPs to it. Her suggestion seems to be a 10-member cabinet.
Normally if a government loses a vonc there would follow a GE, after which Lucas can attempt to control a majority of the House. That doesn’t seem to have been the suggestion though.
Steel Icarus
we move
May's government won more seats than any other giving her the opportunity to do a deal with other parties to form a working government. Lucas' party has yet to do the same.
I presumed her fantasy imagines her 10 member cabinet to be able to command a majority in the house, during the 14 day period after a VONC allowed for in the FTPA.
I mean, it's mad fantasy shit and never going to happen, but it's technically and constitutionally possible as far as I can see, and no more illegitimate than any other coalition.
But if the numbers had been slightly different in 2017 and the Tories hadn't been able to do a deal to form a government, then Labour might have been able to without a general election despite not winning the most seats. Support of a majority in parliament is what swings it.
Lucas' idea is totally laughable, but so is calling it some kind of antidemocratic junta. Pull yourselves together.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Maybe - I really couldn't figure out what the hell she was on about.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I only read reports of, rather than an original transcript, and she seems to have dropped it anyway.
For all I know it was taken out of context and all she was saying was “me and 9 of my friends could do a better job”, in which case, fair comment, there’s at least a 50/50 chance of them doing so. But it’s not how it was made to seem.
In any case, it’s a minor side track, and worth some chuckles, and eye-rolling at liberal authoritarianism, but not worth much of our time.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I disagree danny la rouge . Whilst this specific suggestion by Lucas might be pure fantasy, the idea of the suspension of liberal democratic norms to respond to a portrayed crisis is not. It's a direction of travel we've started down.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
That’s a fair point, actually. It’s completely in line with “the Queen will save us” and so on. Yup, part of a pattern.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
If it was after a Vonc but before a GE, yes. Nothing like it would have happened outside wartime in modern times, as far as I can see. That’s if I understood what she was proposing.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The EU has been quite a way down that road for some time now. In the democracy vs mobile capital fight it's role is to ensure that the former can be 'suspended' as and when required to the benefit of the latter. Or better, make the possibility of punitive suspension a condition of entry and pressure those already in to write such agreements into their constitution under threat of financial strangulation. Itself an example of such suspension - but suspension disguised as democracy.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is what she really meant and who is what designed to appeal to as we all know, now that the lib-dems and green are fighting in and for the same stagnant pool once more.
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The FTPA changed the way a VONC (in this specific circumstance) works - there's no precedent because the way parliament works was different.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
A temporary suspension, you mean? Right?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yep. Absolutely. But in a sensible, moderate manner. Even just legitimising the idea of governments of national unity as a response to conjured crisis is doing this.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yeah, sure.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Many a tawdry act is within the letter of the law.
how would it be different from any other coalition arrangement?
Cid
Proper break this time
Wow, the level of smug in that picture gives er... The one with the Hayek book guy and better dead than red t-shirt bloke... a run for its money.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
In political content, context and justification.
Steel Icarus
we move
It's because "winning" a GE gives the winner the mandate to form a government if they can. Lucas is nowhere near having that mandate.
Steel Icarus
we move
I mean, why her? Why should she get a crack at it?
Combustible
Well-Known Member
I'm not even sure that's strictly true constitutionally. It's the incumbent prime minister, not the leader of the largest party who gets the first go at forming a government, which is why both Heath and Brown didn't immediately resign, but waited until it was clear that they couldn't do a deal.
That doesn't mean it's not a stupid idea, and Corbyn as leader of the largest opposition party clearly has much more of a mandate than someone who is leader of a party with one MP or someone who is not a leader at all. Labour MPs also don't have any mandate to back any government other than a Labour one. I am quite sure a large number of Labour MPs would refuse to do so even if whipped by the leadership, another reason why it would be lose-lose for Corbyn
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
down the corridor, second on the right.
Well, she won't. It's just a nonsense article in a nonsense paper, a drunk dinner-party conversation unwisely written up the next morning. But what stops it being a proposal with legs isn't some sort of high minded question of constitutional legitimacy, it's that it wouldn't get anything more than a handful of MPs prepared to support it in parliament.
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