London Anarchist bookfair 2020

[Athos]

That will be athos creepily and obssesively replying to my posts like he does despite knowing he's been on ignore for a year and he will be insisting that the government is going to do things it has repeatedly said it has no intention of doing and which look even less likely than ever to come to pass and insisting his legal brain outtrumps the wide range of expert opinion that has confirmed self ID will not impact on womens spaces.

Lol. That'll be Smokescreen creating a strawman because they can't engage honestly. For instance by completely ignoring part of the evidence given by the QC they quoted, which mentioned a "chilling effect" on women's organisations' willingness to invoke the single sex exemption!

 

[Rhyddical]

The idea that rape (however you define it) isn't overwhelmingly perpetrated by biological males is stupid and misogynistic. And the idea that women need to get over that "daft notion" is incredibly crass.

In a list of things I never said but you invented this is #43

 

[Athos]

In a list of things I never said but you invented this is #43

Mate, it's there for everyone to see, as are your repeated falsehoods on this thread (some you've subsequently admitted).

 

[Rob Ray]

That will be athos creepily and obssesively replying to my posts like he does despite knowing he's been on ignore for a year and he will be insisting that the government is going to do things it has repeatedly said it has no intention of doing and which look even less likely than ever to come to pass and insisting his legal brain outtrumps the wide range of expert opinion that has confirmed self ID will not impact on womens spaces.

Athos is the only poster I've bothered putting on ignore over his endless bad faith arguing, and can't say I feel like I'm missing much.

 

[Athos]

Athos is the only poster I've bothered putting on ignore over his endless bad faith arguing, and can't say I feel like I'm missing much.

It's funny how people who can't rebut an argument resort to claiming it's made in bad faith, or, even more pathetic, putting their fingers in their ears and shouting 'la, la, la, I can't hear you.'

 

[Fozzie Bear]

It's funny how people who can't rebut an argument resort to claiming it's made in bad faith, or, even more pathetic, putting their fingers in their ears and shouting 'la, la, la, I can't hear you.'

 

[Athos]

View attachment 182381

He's an amateur; I don't need a second person.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

He's an amateur; I don't need a second person.

Well be careful what you wish for.

 

[Athos]

Well be careful what you wish for.

 

[Rhyddical]

Athos is the only poster I've bothered putting on ignore over his endless bad faith arguing, and can't say I feel like I'm missing much.

Wait...thats an option!?! ;p

Athos... please point out to me where I said "that rape isn't overwhelmingly perpetrated by biological males" if it is "there for everyone to see"

I mean you were on a better track with your trolling with the whole pettyfollging over what "transphobia is"... come on, you can do better than making stuff up.

I believe in you.

I mean like from your attitude it's almost like your entire aim is to undermine and distrupt the much needed conversations about Bookfair 2020... I'm not here "for an argument" I don't want a pissing match with you, I've important shit to do, I'm here to talk to comrades about an Anarchistr bookfair in a productive manner.

you wouldn't be such a shitty person as to be commenting purely to undermine comrades organising things would ya?

S H O C K E D

 

[Red Cat]

London's Bookfair isn't the only one there is. Whilst outreach and networking is important it is also impossible for it to be all things to all people.

With that in mind. Do those who don't live in London attend any of the other regional bookfairs?

If so, how do they compare?

The 2019 Anarchist Bookfairs List

Birmingham is bizarrely totally appalling for any left-wing politics. Nobody has yet managed to explain this to me, something to do with the dominance of Stalinist trade union leaders, the size of the Council, the sprawled-out nature of Birmingham. It's frustrating, no idea how you get things going here. It's hard to even find out what's on, generally like, music, cinema, family stuff, the information isn't gathered in any one place, it all feels bitty.

eta the students were very active about fees...8 years ago? There was at least one occupation, there was an attempt to set up a kind of social centre near us, we went along, it was very jazz hands, but everyone was very friendly, however i had a 4 year old and a baby and the premises weren't suitable for them.

 

[Athos]

Wait...thats an option!?! ;p

Athos... please point out to me where I said "that rape isn't overwhelmingly perpetrated by biological males" if it is "there for everyone to see"

I mean you were on a better track with your trolling with the whole pettyfollging over what "transphobia is"... come on, you can do better than making stuff up.

I believe in you.

I mean like from your attitude it's almost like your entire aim is to undermine and distrupt the much needed conversations about Bookfair 2020... I'm not here "for an argument" I don't want a pissing match with you, I've important shit to do, I'm here to talk to comrades about an Anarchistr bookfair in a productive manner.

you wouldn't be such a shitty person as to be commenting purely to undermine comrades organising things would ya?

S H O C K E D

No, I want it to happen, and to be a success. But I think it's important that it's run on anarchist principles, for all anarchists. Surely, as an anarchist, you don't object to your power being held to account?

Running the bookfair is a difficult task, that requires some thoughtful positions, with a bit of nuance. Frankly, I'm a concerned that someone who thinks the difference between "some" and "all" is semantics might not be up to the job. But, nevertheless, I've already wished you the best of luck with it.

If you didn't mean "that rape isn't overwhelmingly perpetrated by biological males", what did you mean when, in response to Pickman's model saying "... legal definition of rape, which requires that the perpetrator necessarily be male", you said "truly we need to get beyond that daft notion that belongs in yesteryear. It projects women as victims..."?

 

[chilango]

Athos any chance of putting your argument on hold for a bit so we can move on to other aspects of the bookfair?

 

[Red Cat]

And that is exactly it.

The Bookfair should be the one event that people like you, and me, where we get a chance to connect with the Anarchist movement.

But for those of us outside of London, and/or outside the scene, it can be a big "effort" to attend the Bookfair.

It'll cost me £25 or so to get there. That's not counting beer/book money.

It's a full day out and away from my family.

So you - the organizers Rhyddical - really need to focus outwards at all the sympathetic people out here that could get a lot out of the Bookfair.

Aim your energies at us. Not the latest twitter/Tumblr outrage.

It's a big ask for many of us to come.

On that note...

• Two days just isn't doable.
• Please don't do it on a half-term weekend, that's family time.

Ta.

For me, I find it hard to take seriously any politics that doesn't have the politics of the family as part of its core thinking/analysis, not some added on extra. What I appreciated about the bookfair I attended was that there was space for the kids, R really enjoyed it, H was a baby and came with me to a meeting. In the past, we'd have wanted to go as a family, half-term would actually have been better for us for that reason, and we'd have stayed with my partner's parents in London, we'd have made it part of a holiday, but that's no longer possible due to illness.

 

[chilango]

The last place I'd take my family is the Anarchist Bookfair.



That's really sad, and indicative of the massive task facing both the Bookfair and the movement more generally.

 

[Athos]

Athos any chance of putting your argument on hold for a bit so we can move on to other aspects of the bookfair?

As soon as people (Rhyddical) want to drop this aspect, I will; for some time note my posts have been limited to reactions to others' e.g. to answer questions or rebut false claims.

 

[Red Cat]

The last place I'd take my family is the Anarchist Bookfair.



That's really sad, and indicative of the massive task facing both the Bookfair and the movement more generally.

It is. It's not an option now and the children would complain anyway...although didn't there used to be meetings for teenagers?

 

[Pickman's model]

It is. It's not an option now and the children would complain anyway...although didn't there used to be meetings for teenagers?

There used to be a creche if memory serves

 

[chilango]

There used to be a creche if memory serves

There did.

But that's not really the point.

 

[danny la rouge]

The last place I'd take my family is the Anarchist Bookfair.



That's really sad, and indicative of the massive task facing both the Bookfair and the movement more generally.

I’d be comfortable taking my kids to the Edinburgh event. Not that they’d come anyway. But it’s a sad indication if people aren’t comfortable taking their kids along.

 

[Athos]

I’d be comfortable taking my kids to the Edinburgh event. Not that they’d come anyway. But it’s a sad indication if people aren’t comfortable taking their kids along.

Aren't yours a bit older, Danny?

 

[Athos]

There used to be a creche if memory serves

There's one for next year. But I think the issue is more than that.

 

[chilango]

It's partly not comfortable, and partly that they'd be really bored.

Both aspects are problematic.

I'm thinking back now across the decades to try and recall stuff that my family could)would go to.

The Zapatistas did some stuff. I didn't have a child at the time, but they ran a pretty cool kids club thing at our local market in Mexico City that I would've been happy to take my daughter too whilst I had a chat with them. My wife was also happy to come along to Zapatista stuff with me.

Some of the social centres in Italy, and the remnants of the PCI equivalents - the Arcobalenas iirc - felt quite inclusive and would be "normal" (wrong word, but I have not had my coffee yet) to visit.

I can't put my finger on it, but it's a real barrier for me. It means that my political engagement with Anarchism/ists is a "hobby of mine" separate from any workplace/community activity.

 

[Pickman's model]

There's one for next year. But I think the issue is more than that.

sometimes i am not trying to answer 'more than that' but adding in a little bit where i can.

 

[danny la rouge]

Aren't yours a bit older, Danny?

Yes, they’re both grown women now. 19 and 23.

 

[Red Cat]

It's partly not comfortable, and partly that they'd be really bored.

Both aspects are problematic.

I'm thinking back now across the decades to try and recall stuff that my family could)would go to.

The Zapatistas did some stuff. I didn't have a child at the time, but they ran a pretty cool kids club thing at our local market in Mexico City that I would've been happy to take my daughter too whilst I had a chat with them. My wife was also happy to come along to Zapatista stuff with me.

Some of the social centres in Italy, and the remnants of the PCI equivalents - the Arcobalenas iirc - felt quite inclusive and would be "normal" (wrong word, but I have not had my coffee yet) to visit.

I can't put my finger on it, but it's a real barrier for me. It means that my political engagement with Anarchism/ists is a "hobby of mine" separate from any workplace/community activity.

They'd be bored now, yes. I went twice I think, R was a baby in a sling, the second time she was 4 and enjoyed the creche as she enjoyed most things then and dancing with her dad to a band playing outside, H was then a few months old, in a sling. Now she's a sulky pre-teen and would be really pissed off, and H has never been tolerant of not being able to play loudly and boisterously when and where she wants, and couldn't be arsed with crafts

Italy has a history of including children as part of political activity...thinking the beginnings of Reggio Emilia rather than anything more current. What became very apparent to me when I had my first child was the conflict between the rights and needs of mothers and the rights and needs of the child, and how interesting it is that this doesn't really feature as an example of rights coming into conflict, because of course children have no power, so it's a private conflict.

 

[Pickman's model]

There did.

But that's not really the point.

it might not be *the point* but my point was (and apols for not making it more explicit) that attempts have been made to make it a more family-oriented place, which i hope worked. however, while most of the bookfair's attendees both people and organisations retain a refreshing degree of sanity there's been an unfortunate tendency over the past decade for some frankly peculiar disputes to replace the in retrospect preferable personal animosities which for many years provided a degree of light relief and entertainment. it's this, i think, this move from readily comprehensible and short-lived episodes of violence or something that passed for violence to a situation in which the anarchist bookfair became the backdrop for an unanarchist campaign to provoke transpeople. an unanarchist campaign, because there is to my mind nothing anarchist about urging people to write to their mp and take part in a parliamentary consultation. it's the atmosphere which this engendered, this engineered confrontation, which i feel puts people off - not simply people no longer happy to bring children, but also people who'd have come along on their own to meet friends, people curious about anarchism and even people who live breathe and eat anarchism.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

The creche in the 1990s was a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Red Cat]

The creche in the 1990s was a disaster waiting to happen.

How come?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

How come?

I only had an actual stand at the bookfair twice, when it was at Conway Hall. I think both times I shared it with other people.

On one of these occasions there was an arrangement where the creche would be staffed by volunteers from the stalls and my co-stallist volunteered (he had kids) but then had to be elsewhere. So I ended up doing it and was fucking clueless.

The creche was in a depressing room upstairs in Conway Hall. There was one or maybe two kids who were there and some crappy bits of cardboard and crayons and coloured paper etc. The kids were bored and one of them insisted on leaving because of this. I was reluctant to let them do that but also reluctant to enforce this physically for obvious reasons. I can't remember how old they were but certainly not a teenager.

Eventually someone else wandered in and took over who seemed much better at it - I later learned that they were a teacher.

I have reflected on this a great deal since and am properly disturbed that random loons from the anarchist movement would be lookin after children.

But perhaps that was a one off, I don't know.

Around that time there was a group called something like the "love and sexual freedom movement" who were allied to Green Anarchist and were quite keen on the dodgier aspects of debates around the age of consent in the US-based Anarchy - A Journal of Desire Armed magazine. I have no idea if they were let anywhere near the creche.

To be fair, the creche became a tonne more professional after that and they brought in people who were CRB checked etc. I wouldn't take my child there but it looked a lot better when I wandered past occasionally.