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London Anarchist bookfair 2020

It also occurs to me, that I should, and indeed could, make my own contribution to making the Bookfair and/or the wider movement more family friendly.

I have the necessary skills and experience.

...but we come full circle.

How can I do that when I'm physically, politically and socially isolated, alienated and apart from the movement as it stands?
 
chilango said:
It also occurs to me, that I should, and indeed could, make my own contribution to making the Bookfair and/or the wider movement more family friendly.

I have the necessary skills and experience.

...but we come full circle.

How can I do that when I'm physically, politically and socially isolated, alienated and apart from the movement as it stands?
Click to expand...
maybe you could do something at an event nearer where you live, with people you know (and trust and like)?
 
Fozzie Bear said:
I only had an actual stand at the bookfair twice, when it was at Conway Hall. I think both times I shared it with other people.

On one of these occasions there was an arrangement where the creche would be staffed by volunteers from the stalls and my co-stallist volunteered (he had kids) but then had to be elsewhere. So I ended up doing it and was fucking clueless.

The creche was in a depressing room upstairs in Conway Hall. There was one or maybe two kids who were there and some crappy bits of cardboard and crayons and coloured paper etc. The kids were bored and one of them insisted on leaving because of this. I was reluctant to let them do that but also reluctant to enforce this physically for obvious reasons. I can't remember how old they were but certainly not a teenager.

Eventually someone else wandered in and took over who seemed much better at it - I later learned that they were a teacher.

I have reflected on this a great deal since and am properly disturbed that random loons from the anarchist movement would be lookin after children.

But perhaps that was a one off, I don't know.

Around that time there was a group called something like the "love and sexual freedom movement" who were allied to Green Anarchist and were quite keen on the dodgier aspects of debates around the age of consent in the US-based Anarchy - A Journal of Desire Armed magazine. I have no idea if they were let anywhere near the creche.

To be fair, the creche became a tonne more professional after that and they brought in people who were CRB checked etc. I wouldn't take my child there but it looked a lot better when I wandered past occasionally.
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Indeed. I took a look in when my oldest was a nipper. Walked straight out as no way was i leaving the bin lid with that set up. Later it did get professional, organised by people who knew their onions. Though my lad didnt fancy being in with the little uns at that stage.
 
Fozzie Bear said:
I only had an actual stand at the bookfair twice, when it was at Conway Hall. I think both times I shared it with other people.

On one of these occasions there was an arrangement where the creche would be staffed by volunteers from the stalls and my co-stallist volunteered (he had kids) but then had to be elsewhere. So I ended up doing it and was fucking clueless.

The creche was in a depressing room upstairs in Conway Hall. There was one or maybe two kids who were there and some crappy bits of cardboard and crayons and coloured paper etc. The kids were bored and one of them insisted on leaving because of this. I was reluctant to let them do that but also reluctant to enforce this physically for obvious reasons. I can't remember how old they were but certainly not a teenager.

Eventually someone else wandered in and took over who seemed much better at it - I later learned that they were a teacher.

I have reflected on this a great deal since and am properly disturbed that random loons from the anarchist movement would be lookin after children.

But perhaps that was a one off, I don't know.

Around that time there was a group called something like the "love and sexual freedom movement" who were allied to Green Anarchist and were quite keen on the dodgier aspects of debates around the age of consent in the US-based Anarchy - A Journal of Desire Armed magazine. I have no idea if they were let anywhere near the creche.

To be fair, the creche became a tonne more professional after that and they brought in people who were CRB checked etc. I wouldn't take my child there but it looked a lot better when I wandered past occasionally.
Click to expand...

I don't think I left my daughter there, she was too young to be left with strangers, but there was a worker or two and other parents, it seemed fine, if basic. It was 2011.

I found becoming a mother very politicising...it really brought me back to thinking about social organisation and what aids growth and what hinders it, and I found it really frustrating that thinking about childhood and alternative pedagogies etc. seemed to be restricted to things like Steiner schools and play groups.

The eldest is now nearly a teenager and the youngest is 8, and I've been working again for years, so these interests have moved into the background as other things take centre ground.
 
Serge Forward said:
Indeed. I took a look in when my oldest was a nipper. Walked straight out as no way was i leaving the bin lid with that set up. Later it did get professional, organised by people who knew their onions. Though my lad didnt fancy being in with the little uns at that stage.
Click to expand...

My kid looked at me with such withering contempt when I tried to leave him in the creche for an hour or so the first time at Queen Mary's that we had to spend the day amassing a huge sticker collection. Randomly appearing Fuck Starbucks stickers formed quite a bg part of my life for the next few years.
 
chilango said:
How can I do that when I'm physically, politically and socially isolated, alienated and apart from the movement as it stands?
Click to expand...
Yes, I know what you're saying.
I, too, would like to get more involved and have knowledge and pro experience in subjects around inclusion that I think are overlooked and desperately need addressing. But I'm so out of the loop.
Back in the Conway Hall days we were a little group who made the most of the book fair. We attended workshops, discussed stuff, applied tactics to the aims of our groups, etc etc.
After a few years the group fell apart, and I did a few book fairs on my own. Which was fine and interesting, but also aimless and frankly a bit boring. One has to be a very extrovert and outgoing person to easily break into a different gang at the fair. That was my experience anyway. (Not to say people weren't welcoming and open to lonely strangers, but still, it's hard to take part in relationships that have been formed over many years).

These days I'm very busy most of the time, and don't have time, recourses, or the right circle of friends to start something new that would explore my interests and expertise. Maybe it's a cheap and boring excuse, because time can be found for things we are passionate about, but that's where I am atm.
I'm still doing a lot of work around community relationships and inclusion, so I'm not just sitting on my arse, but finding the time and people to start something on a more radical level doesn't seem possible atm.
 
Given that there are a few Urbs on this thread that are saying the same thing about isolation, lack of time to find new comrade circles and the like why not try and get a little group started with people from here? You can take it to PM or start a new dedicated thread, discuss expectations, share info about events, meet up when/where possible, put on your own talks/workshops/have stalls...it could be as formal or informal as you like...serious suggestion.
 
I went to a Socialism once (the SPs equivelent of Marxism) where somebody had dragged their pre teen kids along. Really felt bad for them, two hour sessions on lessons of the fourth international or whatever without the anaesthetic of getting a bit pissed can't have been fun
 
Proper Tidy said:
I went to a Socialism once (the SPs equivelent of Marxism) where somebody had dragged their pre teen kids along. Really felt bad for them, two hour sessions on lessons of the fourth international or whatever without the anaesthetic of getting a bit pissed can't have been fun
Click to expand...

Marxism had quite well organised childcare, there were some professionals and those without children who were there for the week were expected to give a morning or afternoon to the creche or take them out to Coram Fields park. I did it a few times.
 
...I think we need something more than "childcare" where the kids can be dumped whilst we get on with the work of being all revolutionary.

It oughta be just as much for them as for us.

Otherwise it's a day pursuing either work or a hobby.

We need to rethink - as Red Cat says above - how children, and family, and maybe even "emotional labour" fit into all of this.
 
chilango said:
...I think we need something more than "childcare" where the kids can be dumped whilst we get on with the work of being all revolutionary.

It oughta be just as much for them as for us.

Otherwise it's a day pursuing either work or a hobby.

We need to rethink - as Red Cat says above - how children, and family, and maybe even "emotional labour" fit into all of this.
Click to expand...

I agree, more than childcare, and integrated, but it's hard when it's not developing organically from what is already happening.

Anyway, I feel a bit of an imposter/intruder on here given that I won't be going to the bookfair in the near future, am not connected with any similar organisations, and right now find it very hard to believe in any kind of social change, which makes it all a bit academic.

Thanks for tagging me though chilango
 
Red Cat said:
For me, I find it hard to take seriously any politics that doesn't have the politics of the family as part of its core thinking/analysis, not some added on extra. What I appreciated about the bookfair I attended was that there was space for the kids, R really enjoyed it, H was a baby and came with me to a meeting. In the past, we'd have wanted to go as a family, half-term would actually have been better for us for that reason, and we'd have stayed with my partner's parents in London, we'd have made it part of a holiday, but that's no longer possible due to illness.
Click to expand...

One of our fundamental tenants or whatever of organising is to make it inclusive.
We will be providing Creche space and hopefully some kind of play area for older kids, both of which will be supervised by people who know what they are doing ie they will be paid staff or (hopefully) comrades who work in child care who are volunteering their time.

This will be the minimum, and I hope we bring a lot more to the table.

I find it a huge problem that families and bookfairs don't mix, heck even that rebellious teens and bookfairs don't mix (like wtf), Manchester and Edinburgh both had a really positive space that children were free to wonder aroung, I don't know it was the more open layouts or venue itself but they were very family friendly and the kids had a great time doing crafty things and talking to people and stuff. We're very geared towards replicating that and I personally will be doing my best to include additional activities aimed specifically at kids, whether or not they are dragging parents in tow or on their bill. This should go way beyond a space to dump the kids, the nippers ain't baggage, they are a part of our community and should be a welcome addition, right up the point where nine year olds are sitting in on workshops and sharing ideas and they are respected.

I would say providing space for pre-teens/teenages has always been the difficult one as they are usually either off on their own, bored to tears or attached to a parent being dragged around to duh duh duuuuh TALKS... feck that lol. We're very early in our organising but we have talked about this stuff and it's definitely something we are looking into. The idea scenario is pre-teens / teenages arn't bored to death by various talks/workshops and stalls bnecuase they feel included and the vibe is less sterile but we can't expect every kid to have the staying power for a day of that, so I reckon we need some additional "fun stuff" for old n young alike. I've been chatting to a couple of comrades who work in escape rooms, and I think that kind of think might be cool if we can sort it out, Don't worry about about luke the bored 14 yo, they're locked in a revolutionary themed escape room trying to get out for the next hour, our perhaps giving up some space towards anarchist gaming. whether thats tabletop or video and holding open sessions for anyone to join in.There is also talk of some more physical workshops that will be more fun than sitting about listening to someone talk and will offer a good duality to events TBH I think half the time we (anarchists) take everything in way too serious a tone and I don't think there is any harm in making our events more fun. Even the worlds largest black metal festival has a dodgems. just saying ;p


Rutitia1's suggestion up there sounds like something y'all should do! use the forum as a space to organise and build community!

Now I'm not a parent, tho I think some of the collective are, I think is safe to say we'll be taking the lead from them and other comrades who are parents. We'll all be working to build a variety of solutions which will make the bookfair inclusive and welcoming.

I reckon much closer to the event we'll be holding open meetings and such and we'll be taking in the thoughts of parents and doing our best to build a space they feel comfortab le bring the family into and indeed building a space the kids don't mind being dragged too because they are part of it.
 
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I can think of a few Urbanites who could contribute exciting tales of derring do and ridiculous nonsense to a Street Shenanigans Storytime type thing :p
 
My eleven year old seems to be interested in @ at the moment so am sure he will want to come along. In 2011/12 the children's space was pretty good.

Only problem I had with the bookfair was you didn't know how suitable some of the "cabaret" would be. May be worth highlighting "parental discretion advised" or some such if there are any plans to repeat poetry on the pleasures of putting things in certain places.
 
Rhyddical said:
One of our fundamental tenants or whatever of organising is to make it inclusive.
We will be providing Creche space and hopefully some kind of play area for older kids, both of which will be supervised by people who know what they are doing ie they will be paid staff or (hopefully) comrades who work in child care who are volunteering their time.

This will be the minimum, and I hope we bring a lot more to the table.

I find it a huge problem that families and bookfairs don't mix, heck even that rebellious teens and bookfairs don't mix (like wtf), Manchester and Edinburgh both had a really positive space that children were free to wonder aroung, I don't know it was the more open layouts or venue itself but they were very family friendly and the kids had a great time doing crafty things and talking to people and stuff. We're very geared towards replicating that and I personally will be doing my best to include additional activities aimed specifically at kids, whether or not they are dragging parents in tow or on their bill. This should go way beyond a space to dump the kids, the nippers ain't baggage, they are a part of our community and should be a welcome addition, right up the point where nine year olds are sitting in on workshops and sharing ideas and they are respected.

I would say providing space for pre-teens/teenages has always been the difficult one as they are usually either off on their own, bored to tears or attached to a parent being dragged around to duh duh duuuuh TALKS... feck that lol. We're very early in our organising but we have talked about this stuff and it's definitely something we are looking into. The idea scenario is pre-teens / teenages arn't bored to death by various talks/workshops and stalls bnecuase they feel included and the vibe is less sterile but we can't expect every kid to have the staying power for a day of that, so I reckon we need some additional "fun stuff" for old n young alike. I've been chatting to a couple of comrades who work in escape rooms, and I think that kind of think might be cool if we can sort it out, Don't worry about about luke the bored 14 yo, they're locked in a revolutionary themed escape room trying to get out for the next hour, our perhaps giving up some space towards anarchist gaming. whether thats tabletop or video and holding open sessions for anyone to join in.There is also talk of some more physical workshops that will be more fun than sitting about listening to someone talk and will offer a good duality to events TBH I think half the time we (anarchists) take everything in way too serious a tone and I don't think there is any harm in making our events more fun. Even the worlds largest black metal festival has a dodgems. just saying ;p


Rutitia1's suggestion up there sounds like something y'all should do! use the forum as a space to organise and build community!

Now I'm not a parent, tho I think some of the collective are, I think is safe to say we'll be taking the lead from them and other comrades who are parents. We'll all be working to build a variety of solutions which will make the bookfair inclusive and welcoming.

I reckon much closer to the event we'll be holding open meetings and such and we'll be taking in the thoughts of parents and doing our best to build a space they feel comfortab le bring the family into and indeed building a space the kids don't mind being dragged too because they are part of it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking so much time to reply with your thoughts.

I've always been a bit anti-fun :D

I think one of the things kids need is space, so not stuck in a small room at tables. I don't think they need to be 'entertained' and a lot of apparent boredom in kids is actually covering up worry of some kind, I don't know anyone etc. But if the event is all very in the head and abstract then they may well be. It might be worth speaking to some teens about what they may find interesting - probably less being talked to and more open discussion? My nearly 12 year old is very interested in climate change, refugees, racism and sexism. I suppose I'm more optimistic about the capacity of that generation to change things than mine right now.
 
Red Cat said:
I think one of the things kids need is space, so not stuck in a small room at tables. I don't think they need to be 'entertained' and a lot of apparent boredom in kids is actually covering up worry of some kind, I don't know anyone etc. But if the event is all very in the head and abstract then they may well be. It might be worth speaking to some teens about what they may find interesting - probably less being talked to and more open discussion? My nearly 12 year old is very interested in climate change, refugees, racism and sexism. I suppose I'm more optimistic about the capacity of that generation to change things than mine right now.
Click to expand...

100%.
 
Plan C have been really good with kid's stuff at their events, especially the Fast Forward things they put on. They've been really open about that needing to be taken seriously and have put work into that, fits with their social reproduction thing. There's some stuff on the program from this year if you scroll down here Fast Forward 2019: A Plan C Festival

And the other London Bookfair collective have too of course, the venue is often a limiting factor though. When is the location for the 2020 Bookfair going to be made public? Getting one suitable has been a real problem, so if they've sorted one out this easily that's both good and a surprise.
 
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We have a venue which we feel would be suitable tho we don't want to get locked in stone until our campaign starts in earnest early next year. We'll probably head over somepoint before the end of the year to do a proposed mapping out of the bookfair ahead of our October meeting too...
 
My daughter often does kids areas - she just did a Reclaim the Power Camp for a few days and one of the constructive things which came out of doing children's spaces was the absolutely huge potential for engaging children in the political process. Smalls were involved in making flags and banners, subvertising and animation workshops were really popular with 8 and up, music, art and drama were really fertile grounds for further debate and encouragement - even the very smallest children were involved. However, this does not just happen spontaneously and it requires a committment of skill sharing from more than 2 harrassed women (daughter and another parent). It's simply hateful that kids are bundled off to go and do some crappy colouring while the adults scuttle off to do important politicking. Daughter is fierce and pushy and had commandeered a number of 'volunteers' to do kite making and animal habitats but there was a bit of a 'not very important' feeling around any of the kids activities...which is a loss of opportunity for truly grass-root solutions...and just further reinforced a lot of the usual power balance fails around childcare. I know my daughter spent a lot of her own money providing art materials and such (and I was roped in to sew 23 (?) cushions and a number of huge blank banners.
Even in my day, when we used to attend the CPGB annual get together's in Manchester, where children had no sort of separate space and generally clambered around the seats and made a nuisance of themselves, we generally managed to have a decent time - not being shoved into a corner somewhere with a bored and unengaged supervisor. Children are not just an extra appendage but are little political beings in their own right...and truly creative play is a key to unlocking and articulating issues which can have a lifelong inflience on children and families. Priorities, innit.
Grand-daughter spent all of the week before last, at protests and has been chanting 'hey ho Bolsonaro must go' this week...and is completely versed in egalitarian principles at 8.

I took my eldest to Marxism where he attended quite a few of the schoolkids talks. Had a bit of a run-in with Tony Benn at one of them (who later bought him a drink and a packet of crisps at the bar!).
 
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I agree that children should be included.

I don’t agree that anyone who has kids gets to criticise me for going and doing stuff which I’m free to do because I don’t have kids myself. I made that choice. Despite all the societal pressure to do otherwise. Other people’s kids are not my personal responsibility. I’ll contribute towards including kids and parents, but it’ll be my choice. I’ll “scuttle off” and do what’s important to me whenever I choose to.
 
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nyxx said:
I don’t agree that anyone who has kids gets to criticise me for going and doing stuff which I’m free to do because I don’t have kids myself. I made that choice. Despite all the societal pressure to do otherwise. Other people’s kids are not my personal responsibility. I’ll contribute towards including kids and parents, but it’ll be my choice. I’ll scuttle off and do what’s important to me whenever I choose to.
Click to expand...

Has anyone said that?
 
nyxx said:
I agree that children should be included.

I don’t agree that anyone who has kids gets to criticise me for going and doing stuff which I’m free to do because I don’t have kids myself. I made that choice. Despite all the societal pressure to do otherwise. Other people’s kids are not my personal responsibility. I’ll contribute towards including kids and parents, but it’ll be my choice. I’ll scuttle off and do what’s important to me whenever I choose to.
Click to expand...

This sounds more individualist than collective.
 
FWIW I’ve provided kids activities at other gatherings, when someone’s been putting a programme together I’ve offered a session.

Also been on organising collectives for camps where some didn’t see the need to include children and wanted to make it over 18s only, I pushed for including children, it worked, and those kids who came had a great time.

I’ve also been at events v similar to the reclaim the power camp mentioned and yes I absolutely went off and did stuff I couldn’t have done if I was responsible for a child. I resent the implication that there’s anything wrong with that.
 
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