Living Wage
- Thread starter friendofdorothy
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
As you should know at times I have tried to steer discussions to the overall issues taking personalities out of it.
Ive just asked a reasonable question and he won't answer it.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
In post no. 15 on this thread you did the exact opposite, and now we have the result.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
You’re wrong. There is no abuse only fact.
You told a lie about me, here it is again: “Could be Ritzy living wage thread on Brixton Forum where you have said there are more deserving cases than Ritzy workers re Living Wage.”
I can’t be bolloxed to read the thread but I’m certain I didn’t say that. Either find where I said it and post it and I will apologise. Or don’t find it and apologise and we can all get on with the discussion.
Until then I won’t be engaging with you in any way
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Oh ffs! I started this here to put discussions about living wage in a broader political forum and everyone just goes on about places in Brixton, there is fucking life outside Brixton! This is a national issue.
Back to Living wage please!
I spent two fucking years looking for a an ordinary low level/low stress/part time job that would pay me more - as I earned barely above minimum wage in the care sector. In those 2 years I applied for about 2 or 3 dozen jobs of which only about few were paying above LLW. Plenty of charities were not offering LLW. GP surgeries mostly didn't offer LLW to receptionists. Care sector jobs rarely offered above min wage. Lidl didn't have any jobs locally.
What other sectors are paying LW/LLW? People have named a few supermarkets that do/dont. What about other retail - do any other retail businesses pay LW? I hear Amazon and Sports Direct don't. What about other big businesses?
Back to Living wage please!
I spent two fucking years looking for a an ordinary low level/low stress/part time job that would pay me more - as I earned barely above minimum wage in the care sector. In those 2 years I applied for about 2 or 3 dozen jobs of which only about few were paying above LLW. Plenty of charities were not offering LLW. GP surgeries mostly didn't offer LLW to receptionists. Care sector jobs rarely offered above min wage. Lidl didn't have any jobs locally.
What other sectors are paying LW/LLW? People have named a few supermarkets that do/dont. What about other retail - do any other retail businesses pay LW? I hear Amazon and Sports Direct don't. What about other big businesses?
Thought this was quite interesting a good slice of London (and national ) craft brewers page llw - BLOG: Cheers to the Living Wage | Living Wage Foundation
Though I’d expect the less minimum wage jobs you have the easier this is.
BLOG: Cheers to the Living Wage | Living Wage Foundation
Tbh this is why it is so impressive that Aldi pay higher than the living wage.
Alex
editor
hiraethified
It should be everywhere but Living Wage employers are still very much in the minority, due to a depressing mix of rampant dog-eat-dog capitalism and greed.
But there are inroads being made:
For most of these guys it’s not exactly hard to pay everyone living wage, the cheapest staff at most of these places will be graduates and apprentices. All the cleaners and facilities people will be outsourced to someone who doesn’t pay living wage.
If any of them signed up to something which said their entire supply chain would pay living wage I’d be impressed.
(Sorry to Poop on your post)
Alex
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
snowy_again
Slush
What makes third party staff worth less?
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
They are not on to apprentices or interns though. I think it should be paid to all.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
I don't think anyone is worth less - but with cleaning/catering/care staff/ facilities being routinely out sourced and those contracts being fought and won solely on price the race is to the bottom in terms of wages.
I don't mind minimum wage wage jobs existing - but it must be that the minimum - what people start on when new, what people with little experence start on, what businesses pay when they start out. Unfortunately too many employers just won't pay more, ever. In my old workplace the best, most experienced housekeeping staff were still paid min after decades in the job.
editor
hiraethified
From their website:
That said, apprentices and interns are hardly likely to make up a substantial percentage of the workforce in most businesses.
editor
hiraethified
Even minimum wage jobs can stack up against the poor who often have to spend a big chunk of their slim wages on travel costs, thanks to inner city gentrification.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
It's one thing to accept less than LW for a while when you are young and still learning, with good prospects of high wages later - it's another to earn minimum for years on end with no prospect of more.
That said I think apprenticeships and 'internships' must be paid at least min and should definitely be time limited. Have unpaid internships been outlawed yet?
In the 80s/90s I had a small design business - nothing to make me rich, but I even could afford to pay degree students on placements and new graduates a reasonable wage. It would never had occured to me to ask them to work for free.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
When I started working in a care home most of the staff lived locally in social housing. Increasing new/younger staff lived further and further out and left after a short time. It was increasing difficult to recruit or retain staff because the wages were so shit, but this was a not-for-profit organisation in the care sector and there is no more money with fees being squeezed from local govt.
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editor
hiraethified
With social housing practically becoming a thing of the past to most people, everyone should be entitled to decent wages to survive.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
yes they should.
Ms T
Honey-coloured ramparts
A friend of mine runs a care charity in Kent and she struggles to recruit staff these days. They used to pay better wages and have better T&Cs than other low-skilled jobs, but now that the minimum wage has gone up significantly they can’t compete. She would love to pay more (care work is hard and demanding) but there is no money to be had from local government. It’s shit.
Apprentices are receiving training which costs their employer the best part of 10k per year, are getting a day off a week to go to college and aren’t accumulating vast quantities of debt.
If you pay them minimum wage they start to become as expensive as a graduate, which undermines apprenticeships.
Totally agree about none permy jobs being time limited, I’m pretty sure apprentice jobs require some level of quality. There are some apprenticeships who’s quality I’m a bit sceptical about, but at least the employer is paying.
Alex
SpamMisery
Pretty comfortable here right under your skin
The thing about big companies getting LLW accreditation is it's misdirected praise. They typically contract out all the low paid jobs (cleaning, reception, security, kitchen, nursery etc) to third parties. It's not surprising their 'core staff' are paid LLW or more. It's the contracted companies that should be getting the pat on the back.
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
I’ve been thinking about the Living Wage LLW coming into the school summer holidays. If you had say a family of 4 with both parents working and getting the LLW, what activities can that family afford to realistically do during the summer that aren’t free? Very few I would say.
Was chatting to a guy at the pool yesterday who used to have free access to a local pool complex when he was in school. He used to be there all day every day. I had similar free access to one in Cork. Both pools are gone now. If a kid wanted to do a similar thing in a London lido today it would cost about £150 for the summer.
Can a LLW household afford that? No. The LLW is set too low in my opinion
Was chatting to a guy at the pool yesterday who used to have free access to a local pool complex when he was in school. He used to be there all day every day. I had similar free access to one in Cork. Both pools are gone now. If a kid wanted to do a similar thing in a London lido today it would cost about £150 for the summer.
Can a LLW household afford that? No. The LLW is set too low in my opinion
SpamMisery
Pretty comfortable here right under your skin
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SpamMisery
Pretty comfortable here right under your skin
Ok. Not sure how that makes my post incorrect though.
You said
Fod said ( and editor evidenced ) that you cannot get llw accreditation unless you compel it through your supply chain too
“Living Wage commitment sees all staff, direct employees and any third-party contracted staff, receive a minimum hourly wage of £8.45 in the UK or £9.75 in London.”
The only reason I corrected you was that I assumed this was the trick too.
Alex
Fod said ( and editor evidenced ) that you cannot get llw accreditation unless you compel it through your supply chain too
“Living Wage commitment sees all staff, direct employees and any third-party contracted staff, receive a minimum hourly wage of £8.45 in the UK or £9.75 in London.”
The only reason I corrected you was that I assumed this was the trick too.
Alex
SpamMisery
Pretty comfortable here right under your skin
No wait, you've misunderstood what I said. Nevermind
Do you mean that the 2nd tier companies eg the crapitas etc who supply cleaners security guards etc deserve a pat on the back ?
If they are paying llw, then yes they do.
I suspect that they only need to pay it to the staff working on the contract rather than all of them though.
Alex
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