knife violence and murders among youth

[Pickman's model]

Liberals are terrified to inquire into some of the blindingly obvious questions that arise for fear of committing racist thought crimes and instead limit their concerns to the impact of the return of stop and search whilst demanding more police. Conservatives can safely ignore the issue on the basis that its black kids in drug gangs in cities like Manchester and Birmingham. We had something like one fatal murder and three stabbing a week here last year and it largely went on without anyone outside of the communities impacted noticing and the media ascribing every death as ‘gang’ related

Pls could you share your source which supplies murder figures more than seven times higher than the number of bodies the cops have found

I'm starting to think you made up your claim of a murder a week

 

[Cid]

Pls could you share your source which supplies murder figures more than seven times higher than the number of bodies the cops have found

I'm starting to think you made up your claim of a murder a week

Maybe they accidentally included the non-fatal murders.

 

[GarveyLives]

This does not appear to be very responsible corporate behaviour:

Tesco, Asda, Poundland and Home Bargains illegally sold knives to children

 

[GarveyLives]

On Friday 23 August 2019, Watford footballer, Andre Gray joined a protest outside Parliament on Friday - and accused government of "turning a blind eye" to violent attacks

Prem star Andre Gray says Boris Johnson 'will never understand' knife crime

(Source: dailymail.co.uk)​

Andre Gray thinks Boris Johnson's privileged background means he will never understand knife crime or poverty​

 

[GarveyLives]

This does not appear to be very responsible corporate behaviour:

Tesco, Asda, Poundland and Home Bargains illegally sold knives to children

From someone quite literally at the sharp end of the consequences of knife violence:

NHS chief condemns illegal trade in deadly 'zombie' knives and blasts shops for 'helping to murder teens' by selling the barbaric weapons

(Source: as stated in image)

Martin Griffiths, the NHS's clinical director for violence reduction, has criticised retailers who are illegally selling knives to children for being ‘complicit’ in murder.​

 

[GarveyLives]

How tragic that child murders which were once considered extraordinary are now, in many cases, barely considered newsworthy:

Damilola Taylor's father: Youth violence is now normalised in society

(Source: as stated in image)

Rest in Peace​

 

[GarveyLives]

This rather tragic sounding case has been raised elsewhere (it remains unclear what it has to do with Brixton) - why and how this happened will, no doubt, be the subject of wider investigation, once the criminal trial has concluded:

Hakim Sillah death: Teen stabbed at knife awareness course

 

[GarveyLives]

This rather tragic sounding case has been raised elsewhere (it remains unclear what it has to do with Brixton) - why and how this happened will, no doubt, be the subject of wider investigation, once the criminal trial has concluded:

Hakim Sillah death: Teen stabbed at knife awareness course

No doubt there will be an "inquiry", as a result of which we will hear about "lessons learned" ...

"A teenager facing life in prison for stabbing a rival to death at a knife awareness course had been released from another knife crime sentence just five months earlier ..."

Hakim Sillah murder: Killer Vladimir Nachev stabbed teenage victim with Rambo knife just months after being released from jail

(Source: Metropolitan Police)​

DCI Vicky Tunstall, of the Metropolitan Police'’s specialist crime command, said: “The search history on Nachev’s mobile phone, shortly before the fatal stabbing, demonstrates that he was a highly dangerous individual, who was intent on carrying out a violent attack. Hakim’s death is another tragic example of a young life lost at the hands of another young man, over a seemingly trivial matter.”

 

[GarveyLives]

"Children can buy cheap killer knives in high street stores with shocking ease, a Mirror investigation found.

Our 16-year-old undercover shopper Martha was illegally sold big blades in 15 UK outlets, some for the price of a soft drink ..."

EXCLUSIVE: Killer knives sold to kids for price of fizzy drink with absolutely NO age checks

 

[story]

Shocking and frightening as this is, I wonder if some shop keepers are bullied into selling knives? Maybe their children are bullied too? If they’re running a small local shop they’re pretty much a sitting target for bullying shoplifting and worse.



Just done a Google search for “shopkeepers scared of gangs” and there’s loads of it, seems endemic.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Thinking an age limit will help is faintly ridiculous also. Given it’s mostly gang related the gang elders could simply arm those unable to purchase weapons.

 

[NoXion]

Thinking an age limit will help is faintly ridiculous also. Given it’s mostly gang related the gang elders could simply arm those unable to purchase weapons.

Even if they couldn't buy them or have someone older do it for them, they can just nick them at the end of the day. If I'd had any inclination as a kid, I could have gone out pretty tooled up after raiding my mum's knife drawer.

 

[ska invita]

kids in gangs can get guns, of course any kid can get a knife
stopping knives being sold is not the solution to this problem - it will make zero difference
you solve it by dealing with the root causes of child violence

 

[Edie]

kids in gangs can get guns, of course any kid can get a knife
stopping knives being sold is not the solution to this problem - it will make zero difference
you solve it by dealing with the root causes of child violence

Except it’s entirely possible on a population level that this kind of intervention does work. You could argue that a minimum price per unit of alcohol doesn’t prevent alcoholism, but at the population level it certainly reduces alcohol morbidity and mortality.

 

[ska invita]

Except it’s entirely possible on a population level that this kind of intervention does work. You could argue that a minimum price per unit of alcohol doesn’t prevent alcoholism, but at the population level it certainly reduces alcohol morbidity and mortality.

i take your point, but kids can buy illegal drugs and all sorts - knives are ubiquitous - of course they shouldnt be allowed to buy them, but a kid who wants a knife will get a knife.

 

[Edie]

i take your point, but kids can buy illegal drugs and all sorts - knives are ubiquitous - of course they shouldnt be allowed to buy them, but a kid who wants a knife will get a knife.

You’re missing the point. If a population wide intervention works, then clearly for some young people it’s acting as a deterrent.

Of course any young person determined or coerced to get a knife will be able to do so. At the other end of the spectrum, a young person who acts on impulse or who won’t pursue it if it’s difficult, might not.

A lot of lads seem to go through a fascination with knives stage in early teens. The majority will never own a knife tho, and it shouldn’t be easy for them to buy one. Lads scrap all the time, knives make it a totally different ball game.

 

[ska invita]

The majority will never own a knife tho, and it shouldn’t be easy for them to buy one.

i agree

 

[bellaozzydog]

Except it’s entirely possible on a population level that this kind of intervention does work. You could argue that a minimum price per unit of alcohol doesn’t prevent alcoholism, but at the population level it certainly reduces alcohol morbidity and mortality.

I agree with you that intervention can impact stats on a national level just wondering by how much. Some one has already pointed out the ubiquitous nature of knives

To be rather cold about it it needs a cost benefit analysis and some pragmatism

The only point of legal control of access to knives is at the retailer level. There is already legislation in place, according to this story this is just being ignored, do you harden up policing of retailers selling knives? More checks, more punative punishment for not doing age checks


The proposed update (below)

Draft sentencing guidelines for underage sale of knives published – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

The proposed guideline for individuals provides for a range of non-custodial sentences, from discharge to high-level community order. The guideline for organisations provides for a range of fines from £500 to £1 million, with fines linked to turnover to make penalties proportionate to the size of organisation (organisations cannot be sentenced to custody or community orders).

None of it matters unless you are testing the system (trading standards doing test buys with kids) and courts dishing out the correct tariff

The country is going to shit, everything appears to be getting defunded including less sexy stuff like treading standards, the legal system is at collapse with backlogged cases, Barristers are rightly striking.

“tougher legislation” if I’m being cynical is just a way of looking tough without measurably changing anything and without spending money on services and as some one else above said dealing with the root causes of child violence in society (vast quantities of money that have been culled from school, community social and youth services)

 

[Edie]

I agree with you that intervention can impact stats on a national level just wondering by how much. Some one has already pointed out the ubiquitous nature of knives

To be rather cold about it it needs a cost benefit analysis and some pragmatism

The only point of legal control of access to knives is at the retailer level. There is already legislation in place, according to this story this is just being ignored, do you harden up policing of retailers selling knives? More checks, more punative punishment for not doing age checks


The proposed update (below)

Draft sentencing guidelines for underage sale of knives published – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

The proposed guideline for individuals provides for a range of non-custodial sentences, from discharge to high-level community order. The guideline for organisations provides for a range of fines from £500 to £1 million, with fines linked to turnover to make penalties proportionate to the size of organisation (organisations cannot be sentenced to custody or community orders).

None of it matters unless you are testing the system (trading standards doing test buys with kids) and courts dishing out the correct tariff

The country is going to shit, everything appears to be getting defunded including less sexy stuff like treading standards, the legal system is at collapse with backlogged cases, Barristers are rightly striking.

“tougher legislation” if I’m being cynical is just a way of looking tough without measurably changing anything and without spending money on services and as some one else above said dealing with the root causes of child violence in society (vast quantities of money that have been culled from school, community social and youth services)

Well you’ll get no argument from me about that

 

[GarveyLives]

Twitter and FB is full of people thinking that a permanent Section 60 stop and search policy is the way to fix things.

No doubt it still is.

The government's solution to this problem?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Could you say where you got your something like one fatal murder a week from in post 668 pls?

Sorry to be pedantic, but is there non-fatal murder?

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry to be pedantic, but is there non-fatal murder?

a good question. but the phrase is Smokeandsteam's from post 668:

Once the slaughter crosses class boundaries then the debate takes on a greater urgency for sure. Race and class has problematised the pathetic debate over knife crime for ages.

Liberals are terrified to inquire into some of the blindingly obvious questions that arise for fear of committing racist thought crimes and instead limit their concerns to the impact of the return of stop and search whilst demanding more police. Conservatives can safely ignore the issue on the basis that its black kids in drug gangs in cities like Manchester and Birmingham. We had something like one fatal murder and three stabbing a week here last year and it largely went on without anyone outside of the communities impacted noticing and the media ascribing every death as ‘gang’ related

you'd be better off asking him

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Sorry to be pedantic, but is there non-fatal murder?

 

[ouirdeaux]

Sorry to be pedantic, but is there non-fatal murder?

The one that PM experienced. He still posts.

 

[Dogsauce]

Is there any actual reason for knives to be pointy? I can’t really think of one. Given that it’s stabbing rather than slashing that tends to be fatal, could redesigning most kitchen knives without a sharp end not be a contribution to a solution? I mean it would take years for all the sharp ended ones to slip out of circulation, but over time might make a difference.

 

[8ball]

Is there any actual reason for knives to be pointy? I can’t really think of one. Given that it’s stabbing rather than slashing that tends to be fatal…

I think you may have answered your own question here.

See also: “guns” and “shooty”

 

[dylanredefined]

Is there any actual reason for knives to be pointy? I can’t really think of one. Given that it’s stabbing rather than slashing that tends to be fatal, could redesigning most kitchen knives without a sharp end not be a contribution to a solution? I mean it would take years for all the sharp ended ones to slip out of circulation, but over time might make a difference.

Scoring,peeling ,opening stuff. Is All easier with a pointed blade.
For every As used by Andy Macnab custom Damascus steel survival knife. There are 10 zombie style knives and thousands of kitchen and utility knives. It's a ubiquitous tool. If we were starting today outfitting everyones kitchen it might work.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

There are some charitable initiatives springing up to provide emergency bleed control kits in communities. They might be inside some premises or they might be in a cabinet fixed to a wall with a number pad.

Bleed Control Kits | By The Daniel Baird Foundation | Campaign by Lynne Baird - Control The Bleed |

controlthebleed.org.uk

Also, Mero's World Foundation, set up by the mum of a boy called Mero who died after being stabbed, has installed a number of bleed cabinets in and around Manchester/Greater Manchester, they're all listed in these three pages (graphic on Twitter/X), up to date as at October 2023.



If it's a kit in a cabinet, I think you phone 999 to get the code for the numberpad.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Unfortunately, it's not possible to tag the location of these bleed control kits on Google maps. It would be really useful if it was possible to do that. I think the locations of some defibrillators are on Google maps, but not all. It would be potentially lifesaving if that info could be made more easily available.

 

[Dogsauce]

They have one at my local church on a post outside next to the defibrillator kit. Clifton village isn’t a very stabby neighbourhood though.