Sara Sharif murder: ‘sadist’ father and stepmother jailed for life

[cesare]

Bin/ban etc. nuke the thread from orbit

 

[brogdale]

Bin/ban etc. nuke the thread from orbit

Agreed; that said the thread started with a reasonable question in the OP and focus on the victim:

How the fuck did she slip through the system?

 

[Spymaster]

Bin/ban etc. nuke the thread from orbit

It was alright until someone took us on this latest little cruise around Batshit Bay and spat his dummy. A lot of crime and punishment threads take a wander around capital punishment but they get refocussed when new stuff comes up.

Anyway; found this on the "bullet fee":

Since antiquity, during the execution of criminals, no log fee was charged for burning, no electricity fee was charged for the electric chair, no gas or poison fee charged for lethal injections and gassings, nor were knife or rope fees charged for beheading and hanging. The monstrous logic birthed from Chinese Communist Party (CCP)'s culture resulted in the absurd creation of the bullet fee, adding another line to the inhumanity of the CCP's culture. In the 21st century space age, the CCP still violates human rights with impunity. This would certainly be viewed with horror by people from the future.

The article then goes on to cite a number of cases where a bullet fee was charged:

1967 March 23 ，劉文輝 (Liu Wen Hui) was executed in Shanghai for being a counter-revolutionary, and his family was charged a bullet fee of 40 cents.
1968 April 29, 林昭 (Lin Zhao) was executed in Shanghai and her family was charged a bullet fee of 5 cents.
1970 March 5, 遇羅克 (Yu Luo Ke) was executed for being a counter-revolutionary, his parents were charged a bullet fee of 13 cents. The bullet fee was not charged because his cornea was sold in a corneal transplant operation.
1975 April 4, 張志新 (Zhang Zhi Xin) was executed by exsanguination and shooting. His family was charged a bullet fee of 10 cents.
2006 November 28, 陳滔 (Chen Tao) was executed for rioting and killing a policeman. His family was charged a bullet fee of 50 RMB.

None of these cases occurred near the time period cited. Therefore, while I cannot show conclusively what the Chinese government's bullet fee policy was during the 1989 protests, there are records of them charging a bullet fee for execution by firing squad before and after that period.

 

[xenon]

Nonsense. You're giving the chap one bullet. How's he going to make a bid for freedom? At best he might end up in a locked cell with a dead guard, no prospect of steak or whisky, and a prisoner who's confused about why he's heard a gunshot but is still alive. You haven't thought this through. If we were to really get hung-up on the safety aspect, Saul's plan of automating the process so it just requires a button push, rather than handing a prisoner a loaded gun, could be the answer.

I take your point though, that steak and whisky might be insufficient inducement. A potential solution here would be to hold an auction where the reward is increased until someone volunteers for the job. Kind of like Antiques Road Trip, in reverse.

I still reckon the type of murderer who'd be minded to shoot someone in the head for a reward, is probably not to be trusted with a loaded gun.


They might just shoot the guard anyway cos well, see above.

They could shoot the guard and take their keys. Not getting very far in the process but let's face it, violent criminals on the whole aren't known for their impulse control and rational thinking.

If the guard's outside, the shooter could just fuck about for ages.

What if their a sadist and just shoot the executee in the gut or knee.

Or they may just shoot themself as a fuck you. The guard in the room traumatised either way and you've still got an execution to get done. After the mess has been cleaned up.
.
OK, leaving this now. Probably thought about this too much for a Monday morning...

 

[xenon]

That weapons like you could perhaps show some restraint, instead of flexing your muscles.

Where've I been doing that you pranet? I'm having a joshy discussion with Spy about his rediculous idea. I already gave my thoughts on capital punishment. Which you probably haven't read as you're just seeing what you want to see so you can pull your snearing thread policing thing again.

 

[emanymton]

I take your point though, that steak and whisky might be insufficient inducement. A potential solution here would be to hold an auction where the reward is increased until someone volunteers for the job. Kind of like Antiques Road Trip, in reverse.

That's gives me a idea, who needs a prisoner. Just auction the right to be the shooter on Ebay, bet you would get loads of bids. Then the state gets a bit of income instead of being out of pocket.

As an added bonus anyway whoever bids gets secretly added to a watch list.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I have been through hell at the hands of someone like this as a 6yo. Sorry but I wish hell on this man. I never told my parents. To this day. He is still a friend of the family.

This little girl went through hell. The fucker deserves pain.

I'm really sorry about what happened to you. I don't pretend to know what that feels like.

But I think tony's point that the best thing now to happen to this man is that we should never hear about him again is right.

Lessons need to be learned about how the system failed Sara. That needs thinking about. Fixing whatever needs fixing is the best way to honour her life.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's gives me a idea, who needs a prisoner. Just auction the right to be the shooter on Ebay, bet you would get loads of bids. Then the state gets a bit of income instead of being out of pocket.

As an added bonus anyway whoever bids gets secretly added to a watch list.

some countries have charged next of kin for the costs of execution, so there's no need to auction the trigger or lever pulling to ensure the state's not out of pocket

 

[Spymaster]

That's gives me a idea, who needs a prisoner. Just auction the right to be the shooter on Ebay, bet you would get loads of bids. Then the state gets a bit of income instead of being out of pocket.

As an added bonus anyway whoever bids gets secretly added to a watch list.

This rather defeats the objective of using an existing murderer rather than creating a new killer.

I like the idea of creating a watch list of weirdos though. Perhaps do the auction anyway, but that would probably be considered entrapment.

 

[Spymaster]

But I think tony's point that the best thing now to happen to this man is that we should never hear about him again is right.

Hippy bollocks.

The reality is that Zara will be forgotten along with him, and he'll only be forgotten until some bleeding heart arseholes start an appeals process or he gets considered for release. Then it will be all about him, and how he's served his time and been rehabilitated. Fuck that.

Agree that the system failures need to be addressed.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Hippy bollocks.

The reality is that Zara will be forgotten along with him, and he'll only be forgotten until some bleeding heart arseholes start an appeals process or he gets considered for release. Then it will be all about him, and how he's served his time and been rehabilitated. Fuck that.

Agree that the system failures need to be addressed.

He's been given a minimum sentence of 40 years, by which time he will be 82 years old. It will be 2064 before he is even eligible for parole. If that does come to pass, it won't be 'bleeding heart arseholes' who bring him back to public attention at that point. It will be reactionary tabloid newspapers or their 2064 equivalent seeking to stir the shit for £££.

 

[Spymaster]

He's been given a minimum sentence of 40 years, by which time he will be 82 years old. It will be 2064 before he is even eligible for parole. If that does come to pass, it won't be 'bleeding heart arseholes' who bring him back to public attention at that point. It will be reactionary tabloid newspapers or their 2064 equivalent seeking to stir the shit for £££.

There'll be an appeal way before that; especially if we get some tossy leftie Home Secretary somewhere between now and then.

This is one of the benefits of CP which bolsters an argument that stands on several other merits anyway. It's final, and allows us to forget the individual, which, as you've agreed, is desirable.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There'll be an appeal way before that

On what grounds? You're talking through your hat here.

 

[Spymaster]

On what grounds? You're talking through your hat here.

Be careful with the insults. Remember what happened last time you tried to argue legal stuff with me on Begum!

I'm thinking of pricks like Longford and Astor, campaigning for the likes of Hindley.

 

[Pickman's model]

There'll be an appeal way before that; especially if we get some tossy leftie Home Secretary somewhere between now and then.

This is one of the benefits of CP which bolsters an argument that stands on several other merits anyway. It's final, and allows us to forget the individual, which, as you've agreed, is desirable.

Has Bentley been forgotten?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Be careful with the insults. Remember what happened last time you tried to argue legal stuff with me on Begum!

I'm thinking of pricks like Longford and Astor, campaigning for the likes of Hindley.

Ok so you're making up a future scenario that is extremely unlikely to happen.

ETA: And with that I'm ducking out. You're talking complete shit and this isn't the thread for it.

 

[Idris2002]

The Russians have typically taken a rather no-nonsense approach to this kind of thing.

And how has that worked out for them?

 

[Spymaster]

Ok so you're making up a future scenario that is extremely unlikely to happen.

I don't think it's extremely unlikely at all. An awful lot can happen in 40 years.

You say you want him forgotten. I say there's only one way to guarantee that.

But again, this is just an element that you're choosing to pursue, rather than looking at the thing holistically.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

There'll be an appeal way before that; especially if we get some tossy leftie Home Secretary somewhere between now and then.

Can't see that happening in the case of the father, but there's a possibility in the stepmother's case. There's a chance that she could claim she was also a victim of abuse and was coerced into her actions.

 

[Spymaster]

And how has that worked out for them?

As a method of execution; flawlessly, afaia.

 

[Jammy smears]

Probably an unpopular opinion but I don't want prisoners like the killers of poor Sarah to be executed or suffer from rape and violence while incarcerated. I don't think prisons should be awful places full of fear and no hope where prisoners are dehumanised because like it or not they are human and some humans are capable of doing some really fucking awful stuff so I'm happy for them to be removed from society so they can do no more harm but I'd prefer a more progressive approach to prisons and inmates, keeping them physically and mentally active.

The loss of freedom is justice enough. Imagine never being able to just pop to the pub with mates, go on holiday, have a xmas dinner in your own home with family, swim in the sea, walk in the park, even choose when you go to bed and get up, have a long soak in the bath. All the little freedoms we all enjoy are gone. That is punishment enough.

 

[tonysingh]

Parole/release for the killer of Sara Sharif? You'd be more likely to flap your arms and fly to the moon! 40 year sentence at 42 years of age is a Whole Life Order under a different guise. Even if he does his 40, it takes around another 2 to 3 years for him to be released properly so he'd be in his mid to late 80s. Given the lack of health care in jail, even without the intervention of other cons, he won't live to see that. He's gonna die in jail.

(But hey, I'm just talking hippy bollocks eh?)

 

[VivaE]

Probably an unpopular opinion but I don't want prisoners like the killers of poor Sarah to be executed or suffer from rape and violence while incarcerated. I don't think prisons should be awful places full of fear and no hope where prisoners are dehumanised because like it or not they are human and some humans are capable of doing some really fucking awful stuff so I'm happy for them to be removed from society so they can do no more harm but I'd prefer a more progressive approach to prisons and inmates, keeping them physically and mentally active.

The loss of freedom is justice enough. Imagine never being able to just pop to the pub with mates, go on holiday, have a xmas dinner in your own home with family, swim in the sea, walk in the park, even choose when you go to bed and get up, have a long soak in the bath. All the little freedoms we all enjoy are gone. That is punishment enough.

Couldn't agree more. Anyone needing anything on top of the grim reality of effectively life without parole and all that entails is driven by a personal need for vengeance rather than justice imo.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Probably an unpopular opinion but I don't want prisoners like the killers of poor Sarah to be executed or suffer from rape and violence while incarcerated. I don't think prisons should be awful places full of fear and no hope where prisoners are dehumanised because like it or not they are human and some humans are capable of doing some really fucking awful stuff so I'm happy for them to be removed from society so they can do no more harm but I'd prefer a more progressive approach to prisons and inmates, keeping them physically and mentally active.

The loss of freedom is justice enough. Imagine never being able to just pop to the pub with mates, go on holiday, have a xmas dinner in your own home with family, swim in the sea, walk in the park, even choose when you go to bed and get up, have a long soak in the bath. All the little freedoms we all enjoy are gone. That is punishment enough.

More or less my position. I go further and say that, once they are inside the system and the rest of us are safe from them (which should be the primary reason for prison - to separate away those who need to be separated away), an attempt should be made to engage with the prisoners and achieve some level of understanding. I feel strongly about that. If we are to actually improve society and reduce these horrors, everything possible should be done to try to do that, including engaging with the perpetrators themselves. This is not at odds with looking out for victims and their families. The two can and should coexist and complement one another.

This year's Reith Lectures are very strong on these points. I recommend listening to all four of them. The one recorded at a prison is well worth listening to. This is the final one, recorded in Norway, and includes a question from a survivor of the Breivik massacre. It also includes some unchallenged shit from the audience about immigration, unfortunately, but there is still a lot of substance in there. Spymaster you should listen to all four from the beginning. You might learn something.

The Reith Lectures - Gwen Adshead - Four Questions about Violence - Can we change violent minds? - BBC Sounds

Adshead is very measured. She is not some 'bleeding heart' who fails to understand the impact of these awful crimes. Quite the reverse. She is all too aware of it and places it at the centre of what she does.

 

[Spymaster]

Probably an unpopular opinion but I don't want prisoners like the killers of poor Sarah to be executed or suffer from rape and violence while incarcerated. I don't think prisons should be awful places full of fear and no hope where prisoners are dehumanised because like it or not they are human and some humans are capable of doing some really fucking awful stuff so I'm happy for them to be removed from society so they can do no more harm but I'd prefer a more progressive approach to prisons and inmates, keeping them physically and mentally active.

The loss of freedom is justice enough. Imagine never being able to just pop to the pub with mates, go on holiday, have a xmas dinner in your own home with family, swim in the sea, walk in the park, even choose when you go to bed and get up, have a long soak in the bath. All the little freedoms we all enjoy are gone. That is punishment enough.

That’s probably not quite as unpopular an opinion around here as you think.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Life without parole is capital punishment, the method of execution is disease and/or old age.

 

[Wilf]

It's not showing respect to the victim. It's not even thinking about the victim.

This 100%. A point that can be made about proponents of capital punishment beyond this thread. Same kind of logic, to take it to an extreme, that was going on in the Summer riots. The racist twats who were burning hostels didn't give a shit about those poor girls in Southport.

 

[Wilf]

So, you become an abuser then.

I can, just about, see your logic. However I think it's a pretty shabby response to a post where someone relates that they've been abused as a child.

 

[emanymton]

Probably an unpopular opinion but I don't want prisoners like the killers of poor Sarah to be executed or suffer from rape and violence while incarcerated. I don't think prisons should be awful places full of fear and no hope where prisoners are dehumanised because like it or not they are human and some humans are capable of doing some really fucking awful stuff so I'm happy for them to be removed from society so they can do no more harm but I'd prefer a more progressive approach to prisons and inmates, keeping them physically and mentally active.

The loss of freedom is justice enough. Imagine never being able to just pop to the pub with mates, go on holiday, have a xmas dinner in your own home with family, swim in the sea, walk in the park, even choose when you go to bed and get up, have a long soak in the bath. All the little freedoms we all enjoy are gone. That is punishment enough.

I tend to agree with this, but I think Spy makes a valid point when he asks is thay really more humane? I think I might prefer a quick death now to a lifetime in prison. But that's just me and might depend on the nature of the prison.

I'm also of the opinion that the "rightness" of prison as a form of punishment is tied to the material nature of the current mode of production (capitalism) and my own view is not independent of that but informed by that.

I don't think it is inconceivable that another society could look at putting people in prison for the rest of their lives as barbaric and that the best way to remove those people from society is a quick painless death in the company of whatever friends and family want to be there.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm also of the opinion that the "rightness" of prison as a form of punishment is tied to the material nature of the current mode of production (capitalism) and my own view is not independent of that but informed by that.

A subject for another thread, probably, but yes, any real conversation about crme and punishment has to start from here. What is prison for? I think that question is far too rarely asked.