Italian politics and elections - news and discussion

[Tanya1982]

Interesting blast from the past, a contemporary account published (Dec 1945) in the wake of Mussolini's death...

The Last Three Days of Mussolini

The Atlantic covers news, politics, culture, technology, health, and more, through its articles, podcasts, videos, and flagship magazine.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Serge Forward]

yeah this new bcuster poster is one to watch for sure

Yeah, I clicked on it and wondered why am I watching a fascist speech?

 

[The39thStep]

yeah this new bcuster poster is one to watch for sure

Fan of Radio Geneva Tweets as well.

 

[Flavour]

The collapse of the Lega vote is pretty important (this is a party that had polled way over 30% as recently as 3-4 years ago)... Salvini's time as Interior Minister (Home Sec) and support for Draghi has massively damaged his standing. Front pages of the Italian rags reporting Meloni is now, with great (and deserved) confidence stating that Salvini will not be given a major Ministerial role in her government.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

 

[Flavour]

no shit tweets and memes please

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Have we had this one yet?

 

[Flavour]

putting you on ignore you boring cunt

 

[Flavour]

the Lega are working to try and get rid of Salvini as leader... not sure if they'll succeed in time. Meloni needs a form a government now and Salvini remains her major coalition partner. He is apparently demanding the position Home Secretary, the same title he had in 2019. Meloni won't give it to him. Not least because Salvini is being prosecuted in cases where he didn't let ships land in Italy, illegally. Will Salvini back down, or get thrown out, or will the dream of a Fratelli-Lega coalition collapse before it's even started? Stay tuned

 

[redsquirrel]

Cheers for your posts Flavour

 

[The39thStep]

I posted a brief thing on another thread about NATO and the US's plans in 1950 in the event of a victory for the PCI in the elections.

Here The Guardian reveals the UKs interference in the 1976 elections. According to the article all options were discussed including a coup but settled for 'influence'. The US, Germany, and UK also donated millions to not influence the elections in Portugal in that period but to finance the Socialist Party's attacks on PCP buildings and rallies.

Revealed: the secret British plan to keep Italy’s communists from power

Newly declassified files expose the Foreign Office’s dirty tricks campaign to influence the knife-edge 1976 election result

www.theguardian.com

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I posted a brief thing on another thread about NATO and the US's plans in 1950 in the event of a victory for the PCI in the elections.

Here The Guardian reveals the UKs interference in the 1976 elections. According to the article all options were discussed including a coup but settled for 'influence'. The US, Germany, and UK also donated millions to not influence the elections in Portugal in that period but to finance the Socialist Party's attacks on PCP buildings and rallies.

Revealed: the secret British plan to keep Italy’s communists from power

Newly declassified files expose the Foreign Office’s dirty tricks campaign to influence the knife-edge 1976 election result

www.theguardian.com

On a separate but related note I've been reading Justice Delayed by David Cesarani, which was recommended to me on here a while back. Definitely a valuable book to read.

 

[The39thStep]

On a separate but related note I've been reading Justice Delayed by David Cesarani, which was recommended to me on here a while back. Definitely a valuable book to read.

We briefly touched on the post war influx of Ukrainian Nazis and Banderites on another thread

 

[Flavour]

Hilarious episode unfolding now as the new government has yet to take office. The right-wing coalition poised to form a coalition is made up of Fratelli d'Italia (Meloni), Lega (Salvini) and Forza Italia (Berlsuconi)... with the latter two being much the junior partners (they got around 8% of the vote each, while Fratelli got something like 24%)

Now they're all jostling for position and demanding this and that ministerial post -- this has been going on for almost a month now, and just when it seemed the end might be in sight, the cards falling into place...

Berlusconi has been recorded (and leaked) talking about how he's patching up ties with Putin! How Putin has sent him vodka recently... just flabbergastingly hilarious shit really:

Berlusconi said he received vodka from Putin for birthday, reports say

La Presse agency publishes audio suggesting 20 bottles arrived for 86th birthday after pair ‘re-establish’ ties

www.theguardian.com

Meloni and even Salvini (pictured wearing a Putin t-shirt a few years ago, posted upthread) distancing themselves from Berlusconi but they still need his MPs in order to form a stable coalition government. Meloni, you'll remember, is heavily pro-Kiev.

Ah, and they're going to try and outlaw abortion completely.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yeah I was reading about these conflicts within the right block. Where do you think things are going Flavour ?

 

[Flavour]

Need to come back and do a proper update soon, have been waiting for the dust to settle and to see how this new gov actually operates before commenting, but there is a LOT to say. So far the coalition seems fairly stable: the weak link is Forza Italia, who are more likely to argue and get shouty with Meloni because they see their 9-10% of the national vote as fairly stable. Salvini's Lega MUCH less likely to rock the boat because he needs Meloni way more than Meloni needs him. Salvini is essentially finished as a political figure, he's lost all momentum, totally sidelined.

anyway i just wanted to do a tiny update on the issue that rocking the nation in recent weeks, namely a new law that the government wants to introduce against the absolute menace of modernity: electronic payments.

previous Draghi government had made the acceptance of electronic payments obligatory for ALL payments no matter how small. Meloni is going to set a lower limit at €60, so, if the payment you want to make is less than €60, then the shopkeeper/cashier is under no obligation to accept card payment, and can insist on being paid in hard, cold cash.

it is total madness. most people are already paying electronically (card, and increasingly, phone) for just about everything -- the only people it benefits are small business owners who can then avoid a bit more tax ... a voting bloc which is a) very powerful in Italy, being relatively full of small businesses compared to other western euro countries, and b) historically very likely to vote for the right

 

[Flavour]

I see the BBC have picked this up so will comment briefly:

Alfredo Cospito: Hunger-striking Italian anarchist moved amid protests

Alfredo Cospito has been refusing food for more than 100 days in protest at harsh prison conditions.

www.bbc.com

Alfredo Cospito was one of the main activists in the FAI (the Federazione Anarchica Informale, not the larger and less violent Federazione Anarchica Italiana, of the same inititals) -- he kneecapped the manager of a nuclear power company called Ansaldo (Roberto Adinolfi) in 2012 in Genoa, for which he was sentenced to 10 years, but also tried to bomb a police training school in a small town called Fossano (not far from me!), though the bombs did not go off as planned and nobody was killed. For this latter attack he was sentenced to life without parole.

Besides being sentenced to life without parole (called ergastolo in Italian) he has also been sentenced to serve his time, i.e the rest of his life, in 41 bis, which is Italian legal code for a sort of super hardcore solitary confinement. This is, apparently, to stop him from being able to coordinate further attacks on the State from jail.

He started a hunger strike three months ago and has lost an enormous amount of weight, protesting against his detention in 41 bis. He wants to be moved to the general prison population.

The State has consistently refused to entertain the idea of caving in to a hunger striker, especially an avowed enemy of the State, but they're now in a tough position. If they acquiesce to his demand and move him back to the general population the State look weak (something they are not keen to do, especially given that victory for Cospito would encourage other prisoners in 41 bis to go on hunger strike if it is seen to get results). Or, if they don't give in, it is extremely likely, nay, inevitable, that Cospito will die. This will make him a martyr and lead to violence but it is, the State has clearly calculated, an uproar they are capable of absorbing/neutralizing.

It's on the news cos he's been moved to another prison -- a tacit admission that his health is waning.

Cospito and the Informals are dicks -- I am not going to contest that, nor, should I think, will anyone here, but life without parole in solitary confinement is clearly an over the top punishment given the nature of his crimes.

More generally, it is to be remembered that 41 bis was originally conceived of as a way to prevent Mafia bosses from running things from inside. Not for weirdo anarchos who probably never had more than a small handful of informal comrades.

No to 41 bis!

 

[hitmouse]

Cospito's appeal against the 41 bis was rejected in court on Friday:

Italy's top court rejects softer prison terms for hunger-striking anarchist

Italy's top appeals court ruled on Friday that prison terms should not be eased for Alfredo Cospito, a jailed hunger-striking anarchist with an international following.

www.reuters.com

Even though apparently the prosecutor general had been saying it should be lifted:

Prosecutor-general pushes for Cospito's jail regime to be eased

The tough mafia-style 41 bis prison regime of jailed anarchist leader Alfredo Cospito should be lifted, the prosecutor-general (PG) of the supreme Court of Cassation has recommended.

ilglobo.com

Cospito resumes supplements after top prosecutor stance - English

Hunger striking jailed anarchist leader Alfredo Cospito has started taking dietary supplements again after a top Italian prosecutor said the state should revoke the tough jail regime he is protesting against. © ANSA

www.ansa.it

He had begun taking dietary supplements to stay alive, but latest reports are that he's now stopped since the decision came through:

Alfredo Cospito resta al 41 bis. "Ora rifiuta i farmaci"

La Corte di Cassazione ha respinto il ricorso contro il regime del carcere duro presentato dalla difesa dell'anarchico in sciopero della fame da 4 mesi. Sabato sarà visitato dal suo medico di fiducia. L'avvocato: "Una condanna a morte". "Assassini", la rabbia dei manifestanti davanti al Palazzaccio

www.agi.it

This seems like it's going to get very ugly.

 

[Flavour]

It's not. He'll die, there'll be some violent protests, and then it will die down. Not a big deal. The anarchist community is big but absolutely nowhere close to being big enough to actually pose a problem to the state even if they go "on the attack" collectively. In a city like Turin, which is one of the most anarchist in the country in terms of their presence, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find more than 100 hardcore activists willing to "do something" (violent), maybe 500 more in the core who might make a tiny bit of trouble, and a further 2 or 3 thousand who'll go on the protest march but not do anything more.

In other news, the PD has elected its first woman leader, Elly Schlein, who is probably the most "progressive" leader they've had in the parties existence. She's very young by Italian political party leader standards (just 37) but is obviously just another disappointing liberal, though she will be a more effective opposition to Meloni than the other lame PD dinosaurs could ever have been. I have no expectations of her but I hope she will be slightly less shit than other recent PD leaders.

 

[hitmouse]

Court rules Cospito must remain in 41 bis jail regime - English

A Milan court on Monday rejected a petition by hunger-striking jailed anarchist Alfredo Cospito for him to be released from the tough 41 bis prison regime he is being held under. © ANSA

www.ansa.it

Urgent Update on the Health Conditions of Alfredo Cospito at over 150 Days of Hunger Strike to the End

Sounds like he's going to die very soon.

 

[hitmouse]

Alfredo Cospito is coming off hunger strike - a huge relief, I was fully expecting the next update to be his death:

After Almost 6 Months, Alfredo Cospito Puts an End to Hunger Strike

After Almost 6 Months, Alfredo Cospito Puts an End to Hunger Strike

This morning, the end of the long strike carried out by the anarchist prisoner of the FAI, Alfredo Cospito, since October 20, 2022, in Italy, was communicated publicly.

After the last hearing held on April 18, in which the Constitutional Court left without effect the rule of imposing a life sentence on Alfredo Cospito for the attack on the Carabinieri school in Fossano, the comrade has decided to end his hunger strike.
In that instance, a favorable ruling was achieved, because the possibility of a condemnation reduction was opened, to indicate to the judges to consider the “mitigating circumstances”, after leaving without effect part of article 69 of the code that governs the adjustment of the sentences. However, this decision has no effect on the application of 41 bis.
The lawyer Flavio Rossi confirmed the news through a statement in which he expresses:
“It can be said that the fight undertaken by Cospito has achieved its preferred goals … Thanks to Cospito’s protest, to the mobilizations of the motley world of extraparliamentary political activism, to the anarchist movement, to the intellectuals who took part in support for the reasons of the protest, to the media world that allowed the transmission of these uncomfortable issues in households of people, millions of subjects, especially the new generations.”
Opening the debate on the application of the 41 bis torture regime and the massification of information about it was already a great achievement of the Cospito strike, a protest with the body as a trench, which changed the world and received the support of thousands of people and a constant flow of direct solidarity actions.
“I declare to interrupt the hunger strike,” were the words that were communicated through Alfredo’s writing, without more argument, giving notice to the jailers of the Opera prison and the Milan Court of his decision.
The recovery process will be gradual and medically controlled since the physical and neurological damage after prolonged interruption of this magnitude of eating, led to Alfredo to lose 50 kg. He suffered a heart crisis, which was covered up by the media and the prison legal structure, and lost the mobility of one foot and the sensitivity of one of his hands.

 

[Flavour]

Ok so Silvio Berlusconi is dead. Wonderful news I am sure we all agree.

But what does this mean for the ruling coalition? That's the question people are really talking about at the funeral. It's all a bit "Succession", to be honest, as Silvio, as well as being the head of a major political party (8% of the vote in the 2022 election, compared to 9% for Lega and 26% for Fratelli), was also the controlling shareholder of Mediaset (the Italian equivalent of Sky, basically).

Now that he's gone, the knives are out for control of both Mediaset and Forza Italia. Silvio has (at least) 5 kids, two from his first wife and three from the second wife. The first two are the most important: these are Marina and Pier. Marina is the eldest, and apparently surveys suggest Forza Italia members want her to take over the reigns of the party! Which is quite absurd for a political party in a parliamentary democracy to become a family dynasty but there you go. Pier has mainly been more on the Mediaset side of things but I wouldn't discount the possibility of him sticking his oar in to change the future direction of Forza Italia. There is another daughter, Barbara, who lives in Switzerland and was at one time CEO of AC Milan when Berlusconi owned it. She's probably not going to feature much.

Then you've got the old guard at Forza Italia: The most prominent guy here is Tajani, who is very boring, no charisma, not loved. He's already a deputy PM and foreign minister in the coalition government. Relatively liberal former lawyer Anna Maria Bernini is also quite powerful in the party, as is former chief whip for Berlusconi, Renato Schifani. The ways things go it'll probably be between Tajani and Marina Berlusconi, the main battle: but the people who should be worried are Meloni and Salvini. Why?

Because if the "new" Forza Italia that emerges from Silvio's ashes intends to regain votes and its place in the political conversation, it will need to do a better job than Silvio had been doing in the last 10 years of differentiating the party from the far-right-populists Meloni and Salvini. That may mean dissenting to the point of abandoning the coalition and brining down the government and necessitating the installment of yet another "technical government" by the EU in the worst case scenario.

Likely scenario is that Forza Italia remain in the coalition, but I think this is, in the long run, a death sentence for the party. They have nothing going for them and an aging voter base. Fratelli, on the other hand, have a lot of younger votes as well as older people. How can Forza Italia hope to bring these voters back to the "center right" while being a junior partner in a coalition with the newer, younger, sexier far-right Fratelli?

 

[Flavour]

Mario Tronti has died -- one of the main voices in the operaismo movement

 

[redsquirrel]

Ah - wonder if this will prompt more of his work to be translated.

 

[danny la rouge]

Mario Tronti has died -- one of the main voices in the operaismo movement

Sorry to hear that. He wasn’t always an easy read, but he said some interesting things.

 

[ska invita]

I read the story but only just now seeing the video - fucking scary sight

 

[ska invita]

I read the story but only just now seeing the video - fucking scary sight

Fascist salute not a crime unless a risk to public order, Italy’s top court says

Ruling by court of cassation allows gesture at rallies but not where it risks ‘revival of fascist party’

www.theguardian.com

wtf?
"Performing the fascist salute is only a crime if it endangers public order or risks leading to a revival of the banned fascist party, Italy’s top court said in a ruling that has been hailed by neofascists."

 

[ska invita]

Flavour could you summarise what its been like in Italy since Giorgia Meloni took power?

This is an interesting read from a few days ago:
Giorgia Meloni’s plan to run Europe — and befriend Donald Trump
The Italian prime minister is courting Trump and preparing to tilt European policy her way.

Giorgia Meloni’s plan to run Europe — and befriend Donald Trump

The Italian prime minister is courting Trump and preparing to tilt European policy her way.

www.politico.eu

 

[The39thStep]

Flavour could you summarise what its been like in Italy since Giorgia Meloni took power?

This is an interesting read from a few days ago:
Giorgia Meloni’s plan to run Europe — and befriend Donald Trump
The Italian prime minister is courting Trump and preparing to tilt European policy her way.

Giorgia Meloni’s plan to run Europe — and befriend Donald Trump

The Italian prime minister is courting Trump and preparing to tilt European policy her way.

www.politico.eu

That's some conclusion the authors reached

On Sunday, Meloni will fly off to Egypt to stand alongside von der Leyen as she signs a migration deal according to which the EU will pay Cairo as much as €7.4 billion to shore up government finances and curb migration (though Egypt’s finance minister put the figure lower — between €4.6-€5.5 billion).

In a sign of Meloni’s influence and key role in shaping the EU’s trajectory towards a rightward shift to migration — and von der Leyen’s political reliance on her — she’s once again along for the ride to sign such a deal after making a similar trip to Tunisia in 2023.

Still, Meloni’s influence has plenty of room to grow.

In June, Europeans vote in a bloc-wide election that’s likely to result in an expanded right-wing bloc in Parliament, according to POLITICO’s Poll of Polls. The Italian prime minister is poised to become that bloc’s spiritual leader, nudging Brussels rightward on everything from migration policy to the Green Deal, an ambitious package of climate legislation that’s become a punching bag for the right.

 

[ska invita]

The one thing I've heard said about Meloni is that she has embraced the EU as an institution - and vice versa - particularly regarding ukraine war but not just - which has upset her eurosceptic supporters but is solidifying her as an establishment (rather than anti-establishment) politician. Mainstreaming hard. Then add in a Trump alliance...