Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[tangentlama]

Israeli blockade of Gaza unsustainable: White House
Fri Jun 4, 2010 7:44pm EDT

(Reuters) - The White House said on Friday Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip was unsustainable and urged a Gaza aid vessel sent by pro-Palestinian activists to divert to an Israeli port to reduce the risk of violence.

"We are working urgently with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and other international partners to develop new procedures for delivering more goods and assistance to Gaza," said Mike Hammer, spokesman for the White House National Security Council.

"The current arrangements are unsustainable and must be changed. For now, we call on all parties to join us in encouraging responsible decisions by all sides to avoid any unnecessary confrontations," Hammer said in a statement.

"It remains a U.S. priority to provide assistance to the people of Gaza," Hammer said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6536PD20100604

 

[cursed]

tangentlama

Allow me to state the obvious.

Threads Evolve.

 

[audiotech]

Everyone wanted to kill us.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-activists-autopsy-results

No deaths of IDF commandos reported, so looks like more of the same shrill propaganda?

 

[ymu]

The thread is about the attempts to end the world's most brutal blockade and allow Gazans to rebuild their lives.

We should let JC3 distract us with his calls to invade Israel, his claims that Israel cannot be reasoned with, his calls to meet violence with yet more violence, his constant questioning of Israel's 'right-to-exist'.

Yeah, cheers for that, but I'd still like an answer from Johnny (or his new sidekick) on what they mean by this oft-used propaganda phrase.

You can post stuff on a thread without demanding that all other strands of discussion cease. Like most people manage to do.

 

[TAE]

And of course, nobody said anything like that to him.

I don't think anyone said that israeli teens should get a bullet between the eyes, no.

 

[ymu]

Any chance of the answer you were so keen to give Spy?

well Johnny seems to be running away from answering it, so sure, knock yourself out. What do you mean by "Israel's right to exist"?

 

[TAE]

Jerusalem Post leader article

Isn't that an illegal reason for a blockade?

 

[tangentlama]

Any chance of the answer you were so keen to give Spy?

He's banned and cannot answer.

 

[ymu]

He's banned and cannot answer.

Oh, what a shame.

Let's see if Johnny deigns to give it a second's thought tomorrow night.

 

[spring-peeper]

He's banned and cannot answer.

tagline says holiday - not banned.

 

[ymu]

tagline says holiday - not banned.

Spymaster, not Canuck. I assume because he's been letting his wife run amok with his log-in.

 

[tangentlama]

tangentlama

Allow me to state the obvious.

Threads Evolve.

Allow me to state the obvious. It is not Israel's right to exist which is the issue. It is not Israel's right to exist in peace and security which is the issue.
It is Palestine's right to exist as a state, and exist in peace and security, which is the issue.

This long blockade is one key part of the issue. Palestinians cannot exist in peace and security without an economy, without trade, without jobs, without education, without rebuilding, without imports, without markets, without freedom of movement.

Mainly, people here are focused on how Israel's regime behaves towards the potential Palestinian state and its people, and how Israel's regime attempts to achieve peace and security for Israel. This focus is mainly on how it exists, not that it exists.

We have discussed all these things many times - all threads are archived and there seems little point (from my perspective) in going over old ground, however if you find it useful, then a new thread might be the best way forward.

 

[spring-peeper]

Spymaster, not Canuck. I assume because he's been letting his wife run amok with his log-in.

ah - that is who Kris is.

didn't see any notification of length of ban - so I'm guessing it was the wifes actions that got him suspended.

 

[ymu]

Allow me to state the obvious. It is not Israel's right to exist which is an issue. It is not Israel's right to exist in peace and security which is an issue, not unless we also consider Palestine's right as a state to exist, and exist in peace and security.

Mainly, the issue most here seem to be concerned with is how Israel's regime behaves, how it attempts to achieve peace and security, how it exists, and not that it exists.

We have discussed all these things many times - all threads are archived and there seems little point in going over old ground.

Fuck's sake. Can you not recognise a leading question when you see one? I want them to fucking think about what they're saying.

 

[ymu]

ah - that is who Kris is.

didn't see any notification of length of ban - so I'm guessing it was the wifes actions that got him suspended.

I suspect it was Spy's action that got him suspended. Stobart has never been banned because Kevin used her log-on - Spy did get banned (presumably) for allowing it to happen.

 

[tangentlama]

Fuck's sake. Can you not recognise a leading question when you see one? I want them to fucking think about what they're saying.

JC3 has thought about what he is saying, and he has asked leading questions throughout the thread, most of them are a complete distraction to the issue at hand - the end of the illegal blockade of Gaza.

 

[spring-peeper]

I suspect it was Spy's action that got him suspended. Stobart has never been banned because Kevin used her log-on - Spy did get banned (presumably) for allowing it to happen.

Kevin is a child

 

[Hocus Eye.]

It seems (according to Jacky Rowland of Aljazeera) that Israel has decided that because the ship had to be boarded before it would go to Ashdod, that the passengers will be regarded as illegal and be dealt with by immigration rather than being allowed to return to their home port in the Rachel Corrie.

Also an Israeli spokesperson has said (on Aljazeera) that the aid from the previous ships has not gone to Gaza because Hamas won't allow its entry. I don't know if this is a propaganda interpretation or objectively true.

 

[Blagsta]

Who the fuck are you by the way?

You've been around since '05 so you must be a name change. You've posted absolutely nothing of substance so I'm guessing that you're a friend of Blagsta, or perhaps Tarranau's brother.

Am I right?

you seem rather paranoid.

 

[ymu]

Also an Israeli spokesperson has said (on Aljazeera) that the aid from the previous ships has not gone to Gaza because Hamas won't allow its entry. I don't know if this is a propaganda interpretation or objectively true.

Hamas said they would only accept the aid if all of it got through - not if the Israelis had chosen what got through.

It's exactly the same principle as the RC not diverting to Ashdod. The issue is not the pathetic amounts of aid getting in - it's the fact that Israel is controlling that aid.

They don't even need a lot of the aid which does get in - food, for example. The problem isn't a lack of food, it's a lack of the ability to pay for it, which is precisely what this blockade is all about. Economic strangulation.

The fact that the goods on the flotilla were donated by well-wishers is incidental - the issue is the blockade and the fact that it is forcing hundreds of thousands of people to depend on aid because there is no possibility of work.

What is allowed in and what is denied is ever-changing according to mystifying and capricious criteria. To Gazans it is hard to understand why coriander is banned but cinnamon is allowed, why children are denied toys and car owners spare parts.

"Two weeks ago they stopped coffee beans," says Raed Fatouh, who co-ordinates with the Israelis on the crossing points. "I called them, and they said they couldn't allow in beans, only ground coffee."

The reason, he said, was that beans require grinding and that could be categorised as an industrial process.

"It's the same with butter. If it comes in a 20kg slab they won't allow it because it needs to be cut up. But they will allow in small packets of butter. They won't let anything in that could provide work for a small business."

Basic food aid is permitted. Eight in 10 Gazans are dependent on aid, and the distribution points around Gaza City were this week doing considerably brisker business than grocery stores.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-humanitarian-crisis

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Ymu yep, got it.

 

[tangentlama]

Good info, Ymu.

It has always been about economic strangulation.

From holding farmers on their way to sell in the market at IDF checkpoints whilst their produce rots and becomes unsaleable, to some 60 years ago, when Zionist pickets (1946 onwards) in Tel Aviv to prevent Jews from buying Arab products, beating of the Arab peasant-farmers, throwing petrol on their produce to make it unfit for sale. This has been going on for a very long time.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm saying that it's fashionable here to be anti zionist. I'm sure that anti zionists have their doctrinal disagreements, just like trotskyites and stalinists etc etc all do.

So why claim that there's a "standard anti-Zionist doctrine" (your own words!), then? Is it down to mendacity or stupidity?

 

[laptop]

Isn't that an illegal reason for a blockade?

Whoops, didn't check the JPost article against legality - it so rarely comes up positive

That would depend on your definition of "occupation".

Apparently, Israel is entitled to occupy the West Bank and Gaza for its own security.

Apparently, also, the laws of war pertaining to occupation do not apply in the West Bank and Gaza.

Go figure.

 

[tangentlama]

So why claim that there's a "standard anti-Zionist doctrine" (your own words!), then? Is it down to mendacity or stupidity?

I don't think he understands what it means to be non-Zionist, pro-Palestinian, pro-Israeli, pro-Peace, pro-humanity.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Finally the truth!



http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177445

Kinnell, the jpost is really taking it's hasbara/state propaganda duties seriously at the mo!

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I'm saying that it's fashionable here to be anti zionist. I'm sure that anti zionists have their doctrinal disagreements, just like trotskyites and stalinists etc etc all do.

So why claim that there's a "standard anti-Zionist doctrine" (your own words!), then? Is it down to mendacity or stupidity?

VP I don't think you will get a reply form JC3 any time soon. He has had a mini-flounce and put 'Holiday' on his tag line. He posted something implying that he was feeling out-numbered on this thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

He said a lot, though, including that teenage arab hackers should receive a bullet between the eyes.

He also said a fair few things about what should be done to Jews who don't support the state of Israel.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't think anyone said that israeli teens should get a bullet between the eyes, no.

A couple of the more shrill posters (in particular one of the board dyslexics, who used to go off on one about "Jews" until he was informed that not all Jews are either Israeli or support the state of Israel) used to wish him dead, several posters (including me) told him he was a vicious cunt after he stated that if any of his children became anti-Zionist he'd feel no compunction about killing them, and IIRC someone mentioned that they thought that his expressed fondness for women half his age was unsavoury.
You're right that no-one wished Israeli teenage hackers a bullet between the eyes, though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fuck's sake. Can you not recognise a leading question when you see one? I want them to fucking think about what they're saying.

Now there's a forlorn hope, if ever there were one!