keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
This whole campaign has been a lie, I feel like I've been deceived.
All I heard was how these people who supported remain were supposed to be highly educated.
Immigration and the "racist thickos"
- Thread starter Mation
- Start date
All I heard was how these people who supported remain were supposed to be highly educated.
Well, I did and I am.
Commission isn't elected. Its members however are suggested by elected govts - so you share them out - and ratified by elected governments. The commission can propose laws, all of which have to go through committee stage of elected MEPs, amendments, then to parliament, amendments again. MEPs and the parliament can also suggest laws, this goes on all the time.
Commissioners could be directly elected, but this would tend to favour states with bigger populations, is possible though.
The least `democratic` thing about the EU is lobbyists, not its structures, which imo, on balance, are more `democratic` than the UK's.
Complaining about elected governments in the EU asking the UK to put into motion its moves to leave, following the vote to leave, is pretty rich from the nats.
So, the theory us now there is just one set if officialdom to deal with its easier to effect change for the working class via the ballot box? Or that a blow had been struck against the neo-lib construct through a referendum handed down by a right wing government? Forgive me if that sounds pretty middle of the road.
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andysays
Love and solidarity
This is effectively how the majority of members of the House of Lords are appointed, so arguing that the EU Commission is somehow more democratic than the HoL (as if that's relevant anyway) doesn't bear any examination.
In both cases, members are supposed "experts", appointed by governments, and with no democratic recall.
Comforting nationalist solutions to political and economic problems which are overwhelmingly complex.
too complicated for working class people, they don't know what's best for them. leave it to their betters
Patronising nonsense. No. Complete opposite. People, remain or leave, took a decision, a vote. In my opinion, the nationalist solutions offered - and there were loads - are the normal sort, comfort blankets to problems which - to everyone including me - are overwhelmingly complex.
Brexiters say they have solutions to whatever problems they feel we have. So it's on them now to take some personal responsibility for the decision they took.
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Assuming most voters voted on an informed basis, we can conclude the UK is done for, the poor feel fucked over, oldies know what's best for young uns and people in the cities like going on holiday to Europe. So, no change at all from before the ref, except the government is about to lurch further to the right.
I didn't compare the two, I compared the structures of the EU and the UK. But if you want to, the commission doesn't have hereditary commissioners. But yeah, it could be directly elected, sure. If so how would you stop the biggest populations taking all the commissioners? How would you allow Malta and Cyprus to play a role?
Take the UK approach and fuck the regions and constituent nations.
so these overwhelmingly complex problems - who is able to solve them?
we should have voted remain and told those angry poor people to suck it up and keep quiet, that would have sorted it.
No one.
should there have been a referendum?
Cameron promised one so yeah. In my opinion, it's a huge waste of time, a distraction, the biggest victory for the UK far right in history, and has set the UK against itself, in a number of ways. It's ugly and it has the potential to get a lot worse. I actually genuinely hope the Lexiters are right and it shifts the UK to the left somehow, but personally I think that's a dream. Time will tell and I'll be delighted to be wrong.
the uk far right doesn't seem particularly strong right now. what does it consist of? The EDL - they seem far weaker than they used to be, Britain First - facebook likes and little else, the NF - a shadow of what is was, the BNP - does it even exist anymore? I'm not sure that this was any sort of stunning victory for them, I doubt they had much to do with it.
This has been coming for a long time, the left has failed to deal with it. if we had voted remain, the problems would still have existed and would still have needed a response - what would that response have been? the EU was not impeding the rise of the right.
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You're sounding pretty bitter for being on the winning side.
Wouldn't waste your anger lashing out at someone who didn't bother voting for this side show designed to reinforce the Tory party.
I'm not angry or bitter.
the tory party is certainly looking reinforced isn't it
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Everyone's a winner baby
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Which Lexiters argued this then?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Pure projection by the middle classes too, much of this "racist thicko" nonsense. Look to history. Racism is and has been a key political tool for centuries, as has immigration. Racism is hardly ever a bottom-up movement. It's almost always top-down and political in origin, but the media - being mostly middle and political class themselves - run with what serves their own purposes best, and fuck the truth!
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Christ. "Picnic against Brexit" FFS
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
You're just not creative enough MationChrist. "Picnic against Brexit" FFS
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
when the guardian talks of creative solidarirty I shudder. Not for the clown car jazz hands shit. These fucking fabians had us in work gangs once
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
I'm reposting this from one of my posts on another thread as it hasn't been answered and it might fit better here. It may not have been answered because people were being kind and ignoring my idiocy/naivety or just cos it's not worth bothering with 
But I'm exposing myself again in the hope that if this is stupid, someone will tell me why. I'm quite prepared for it to be thought so. But what I want to know is, would this lead to an increased racist/right-wing reality? If not, is it workable?
So...
Would there be any useful/workable/helpful way of saying that (for a given time period and region of whatever pre-defined size is workable and useful) each region must be prepared to take some minimum number of new residents from abroad depending on local housing capacity, local employment levels, number of job opportunities and state of local service provision, and cannot take any more than some maximum (greater) number based on the same? All in conjunction with employment laws that guarantee a minimum wage and outlaws zero hours contracts (and whatever else I've forgotten about that constitutes shitty employment practice). Assuming Labour winning a general election with JC as PM. And with the intended result that there was no overall fixed cap on immigration, but that it would be flexible, according to capacity not desired growth-rate, and giving full rights to everyone who comes.
I'm a bit rubbish at extrapolating consequences for this kind of thing (I can do science logic but economics doesn't seem to be at all logical to me, not helped by me being pretty ignorant of the parameters of negotiation with the EU). So I might sound like a fool, but if anyone has the patience to point out what the problems might be and/or suggest alternatives, I'd be very interested to hear.
...
*peeps through fingers*
But I'm exposing myself again in the hope that if this is stupid, someone will tell me why. I'm quite prepared for it to be thought so. But what I want to know is, would this lead to an increased racist/right-wing reality? If not, is it workable?So...
Would there be any useful/workable/helpful way of saying that (for a given time period and region of whatever pre-defined size is workable and useful) each region must be prepared to take some minimum number of new residents from abroad depending on local housing capacity, local employment levels, number of job opportunities and state of local service provision, and cannot take any more than some maximum (greater) number based on the same? All in conjunction with employment laws that guarantee a minimum wage and outlaws zero hours contracts (and whatever else I've forgotten about that constitutes shitty employment practice). Assuming Labour winning a general election with JC as PM. And with the intended result that there was no overall fixed cap on immigration, but that it would be flexible, according to capacity not desired growth-rate, and giving full rights to everyone who comes.
I'm a bit rubbish at extrapolating consequences for this kind of thing (I can do science logic but economics doesn't seem to be at all logical to me, not helped by me being pretty ignorant of the parameters of negotiation with the EU). So I might sound like a fool, but if anyone has the patience to point out what the problems might be and/or suggest alternatives, I'd be very interested to hear.
...
*peeps through fingers*
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