I million workers come to UK: defacto open borders?

[ViolentPanda]

well, you haven't been culled and you've been allowed to have your say. so, yes there is compassion about.

Dude, Balders isn't one of the "lesser people", he's part of the vanguard of "Authoritarian socialism", and he'll hand over power to the proleteriat just as soon as the revolution is over, honest!

 

[tbaldwin]

Sententious little busybody, aren't you?

As well as you being a joke, like.

You think i'm a joke VP. Good to know somebody gives you something to smile about.
Cos to be honest.You dont exactly come across as the happiest of people.
Somebody who spends so much time on the web telling people what they should or shouldnt say.
You want to show how clever and Liberal you are all the time. And CLAIM to have been a private in the army who then worked for the home office!!!!
eeerrrrmmm.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You think i'm a joke VP. Good to know somebody gives you something to smile about.
Cos to be honest.You dont exactly come across as the happiest of people.
Somebody who spends so much time on the web telling people what they should or shouldnt say.
You want to show how clever and Liberal you are all the time. And CLAIM to have been a private in the army who then worked for the home office!!!!
eeerrrrmmm.

Ah, poor balders is having a bit of a smear again, using snippets of info garnered from other posts, and wrapping them up with your own prejudices. Must give you a bad stomach-ache, being so bitter and twisted.

Oh, and I don't claim anything, I state.

 

[nino_savatte]

I won't take any lessons from someone who can't even construct a sentence properly.

Thank you you expose yourself for what you really are.This is because of your white middleclass background which means your ego has been constucted in a way in which it means does not allow you to have conversations with people from different social and racial backgrounds.Great comment as it really does expose the fact that there is no difference between your mentality , and that of a neo-con, tory grandee etc etc as you are using an artificial social, racial and hierarchical construct from which to conduct your discousre. ( Even looks like balders does with the lesser poster tip, thats a shame)

I assume he doesn't have the brain cells to explain, but I am not going to waste time trying to decipher his ramblings

Well you posted twice on that exact topic instsead of trying to contribute to the issue at hand.Now that is sad.guinessdrinker? more like intellectual brewers droop

Here's a piece of advice: never come to the keyboard when you've been drinking.

Heres a piece of advice nino; get a life full stop. Then you might be able to comment on the issues that affect the lives of millions with some real insight .

I have a "White middle class background"? You really are a fucking idiot, aren't you?

 

[durruti02]

Ah, the auld "people on the Left" schtick. Are you on the left, balders? Because you sound as though you're on the right. In fact, your views wouldn't be out of place with a certain party of the right.

idiot staements like this is why the left is soooo toootally irelevent in british politics ...

 

[durruti02]

Is it unprecedented?

I dunno.

Bear in mind the rate of emmigration too...what do you wanna do, stop people leaving?

BUT don't you get it .. that is part of it too .. it is a general attack on communities/the working class that renders us all more incapable of resisting state attacks ..

 

[durruti02]

Thats more or less the system we have.

A system that is "creating an unprecedented flood of immigrants" or whatever...

sorry you think we have democracy????

and you think that if it went to a referendum a vast majority would NOT call for a cut back in immigration ??????

 

[durruti02]

I've just read on Guardian CIF that Noam Chomsky is critical of mass migration, that it has a detrimental effect on social structures, leading to a decline in unionism and wages for the unskilled classes; ie. he regards it as a neo-liberal economic tactic to drive down wages for the unskilled.

never hear the No Borders lot quoting that bit of the Chomsk

racist!!!

 

[durruti02]

You'll also find that he accepts that the phenomenon will occur, indeed his parents were part of one wave of mass-migration from central Europe to the USA.

Oh, and as far as I recall (and I've read only about half of Chomsky's output, so I may be wrong) he's never made an argument supporting the strengthening of border controls, although he has argued that border controls are often a tool of capital.

you miss the point .. again ..

immigration is NOT affected by border controls .. see mexican immigration to the US .. but by whether work is available ..

border controls have a function of creating fear and control NOT of stopping immigration

 

[ViolentPanda]

you miss the point .. again ..

immigration is NOT affected by border controls .. see mexican immigration to the US .. but by whether work is available ..

border controls have a function of creating fear and control NOT of stopping immigration

No, I think you're missing the point, and the point is that immigration is affected by border controls and by whether work is available.

Anyone who hasn't already formed their conclusions in face of the facts can see that.

 

[durruti02]

No, I think you're missing the point, and the point is that immigration is affected by border controls and by whether work is available.

Anyone who hasn't already formed their conclusions in face of the facts can see that.

explain how border controls have stopped the millions of mexicans in the US

explain how border controls have stopped the ???thousends of immigrants in this country ..

nope immigration controls are about CONTROL .. the bosses WANT cheap labour .. they don't want to stop it!

 

[ViolentPanda]

explain how border controls have stopped the millions of mexicans in the US

Don't be fucking stupid. They stopped the ones that didn't get there, not the ones that did.

explain how border controls have stopped the ???thousends of immigrants in this country ..

Why would I want to explain something to you that has fuck-all to do with anything I've said except in your head?

nope immigration controls are about CONTROL .. the bosses WANT cheap labour .. they don't want to stop it!

IF you've ever bothered to read the posts that people who respond to your multiple whines about immigration, you'll have noticed that many of them aren't (as you like to claim) "no borders", what they are is anti-"closed borders", and don't disagree that part of the issue of immigration has to do with capital's use of cheap labour. You, on the other hand, appear to believe it's the be-all and end-all.

 

[nino_savatte]

idiot staements like this is why the left is soooo toootally irelevent in british politics ...

What? Like your statements are more relevant? Fuck me, you're arrogant as well as thick.

Your immigration threads are no more than a cover for your own prejudices.

Have you ever heard of the Knownothings? That's you.

Oh, who constitutes this "Left" that you speak of? By using this sort of phraseology, one might expect that you're on the Right - are you? Or will you just play some silly semantic game to avoid answering the question?

Perhaps you're just not honest enough to admit to all of us, exactly where your political sympathies lie.

 

[nino_savatte]

sorry you think we have democracy????

and you think that if it went to a referendum a vast majority would NOT call for a cut back in immigration ??????

Who is this majority that you speak of? I get the feeling that it's in your imagination...just like this "Left" that you keep crapping on about.

 

[nino_savatte]

explain how border controls have stopped the millions of mexicans in the US

explain how border controls have stopped the ???thousends of immigrants in this country ..

nope immigration controls are about CONTROL .. the bosses WANT cheap labour .. they don't want to stop it!

Such a typically narrow view from a very narrow mind. You've done little here to avoid making yourself look like a bigot.

 

[becky p]

Such a typically narrow view from a very narrow mind. You've done little here to avoid making yourself look like a bigot.

Your definition of a bigot seems to be anybody who has the audacity to disagree with you!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Your definition of a bigot seems to be anybody who has the audacity to disagree with you!

So you're contending that nino's definition of a bigot is identical to tbaldwin's definition of a liberal, then?

 

[nino_savatte]

Your definition of a bigot seems to be anybody who has the audacity to disagree with you!

If this is all you can say, then you really are pretty thick. I don't mind people disagreeing with me but neither you or baldwin has actually posted anything that could be considered a "disagreement". All you have posted is shite like this. You haven't mustered a single effective rebuttal to any of my points.

 

[nino_savatte]

Why is it that folk like beckyp can't actually respond to points without resorting to tired auld lines like "You call anyone a bigot who disagrees with you"? It is clear that such people cannot stand the fact that you disagree with them and will attempt to avoid answering for their own positions by projecting their inadequacies onto you. This is a classic tactic of evasion....or it simply underlines the fact that they are poorly read and ill-informed.

Rather than deal with any points, they will repeat the same mantra "You think your opinion is fact" or some other shitty comeback. So, do they think that their opinions are "fact"? I also find it odd that none of them will support their contentions with evidence but will demand that you produce reams of data. This is nothing less than dishonesty on their part, since they have no intention of producing evidence themselves.

 

[durruti02]

Don't be fucking stupid. They stopped the ones that didn't get there, not the ones that did.

THE KEY FACTOR THOUGH IS WORK ISN'T IT. THAT IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR. WHILE THERE IS WORK MILLIONS WILL GET THROUGH. MANY TIMES MORE GET THROUGH THAN DO NOT

Why would I want to explain something to you that has fuck-all to do with anything I've said except in your head?

??

IF you've ever bothered to read the posts that people who respond to your multiple whines about immigration, you'll have noticed that many of them aren't (as you like to claim) "no borders", what they are is anti-"closed borders", and don't disagree that part of the issue of immigration has to do with capital's use of cheap labour. You, on the other hand, appear to believe it's the be-all and end-all.

AND WHAT YOU MAY OR MAY HAVE NOT NOTICED IS THAT i AGREE WITH THAT .. I AM AGAINST CLOSED BORDERS AND ARGUE CONSISTENTLY THAT IT IS THE PULL THAT MATTERS not THE RELEVENCE OF BORDERS. I AM AWARE YOU AND OTHER LEFTIES ACKNOWLEDGE THE CAPITAL PULL FACTOR BUT YOU STILL GET YER NICS IN A TWIST OVER ANY MENTION OF IMMIGRATION. INSTICTIVELY YOU FEEL THERE IS SOMETHING DODGY BEHIND IT. no?

USE OF CAPITALS IS NOT SHOUTING JUST LAZINESS .. SORRY

 

[durruti02]

Originally Posted by durruti02
explain how border controls have stopped the millions of mexicans in the US

explain how border controls have stopped the ???thousends of immigrants in this country ..

nope immigration controls are about CONTROL .. the bosses WANT cheap labour .. they don't want to stop it!

Such a typically narrow view from a very narrow mind. You've done little here to avoid making yourself look like a bigot.

how so???? how on earth is stating that millions of mexican in america shows that it is work not border control is the key determinant of numbers migrating, shows i am a bigot????

 

[nino_savatte]

Originally Posted by durruti02
explain how border controls have stopped the millions of mexicans in the US

explain how border controls have stopped the ???thousends of immigrants in this country ..

nope immigration controls are about CONTROL .. the bosses WANT cheap labour .. they don't want to stop it!



how so???? how on earth is stating that millions of mexican in america shows that is work not border control is the key determinant of numbers migrating, shows i am a bigot????

You really don't understand, do you?

 

[durruti02]

You really don't understand, do you?

answer a)

go on explain it to me then ..

b) yes i do .. quite clearly .. i am happy to agree with the millions of other 'bigots' in this country while you can stay ignorent in your tiny ghetto . what worries me is that your ignorence is fueling a massive right wing back lash in this country which will not only effect you but me too

 

[becky p]

Why is it that folk like beckyp can't actually respond to points without resorting to tired auld lines like "You call anyone a bigot who disagrees with you"? It is clear that such people cannot stand the fact that you disagree with them and will attempt to avoid answering for their own positions by projecting their inadequacies onto you. This is a classic tactic of evasion....or it simply underlines the fact that they are poorly read and ill-informed.

Rather than deal with any points, they will repeat the same mantra "You think your opinion is fact" or some other shitty comeback. So, do they think that their opinions are "fact"? I also find it odd that none of them will support their contentions with evidence but will demand that you produce reams of data. This is nothing less than dishonesty on their part, since they have no intention of producing evidence themselves.

nino. I have no problem with you or anyone else disagreeing with me. But your way of debating? seems to be condemning anyone who doesn't agree with you as ignorant and or racist. To be honest i find it difficult to decipher your views at times.
And as for demanding reams of data? and being dishonest? could you give me a specific example?

 

[nino_savatte]

nino. I have no problem with you or anyone else disagreeing with me. But your way of debating? seems to be condemning anyone who doesn't agree with you as ignorant and or racist. To be honest i find it difficult to decipher your views at times.
And as for demanding reams of data? and being dishonest? could you give me a specific example?

You say these things but it is abundantly clear that you have a serious problem with anyone who doesn't embrace the same view of immigration and immigrants as you and your fellow travellers. You continue to make claims like this in order to avoid proper discussion. The simple truth is that you, baldwin and durutti don't want discussion and those of us who challenge you on this issue are treated to nothing but the usual spiel...or worse, you come out with same crap about "those who disagree with you". It's dishonest.

 

[nino_savatte]

answer a)

go on explain it to me then ..

b) yes i do .. quite clearly .. i am happy to agree with the millions of other 'bigots' in this country while you can stay ignorent in your tiny ghetto . what worries me is that your ignorence is fueling a massive right wing back lash in this country which will not only effect you but me too

Nice spin there. But the only ignorant one here is you. You're the one who cannot seem to understand that immigration isn;t the problem. You continue to labour under the same deluded belief as the rest of the anti-immigrationists.

If anyone is doing anything to stir up trouble it is you and your fellow travellers. You are content to delude yourselves with the notion that immigration is bad and those who come here, do so to "steal our jobs". It is you who is the bigot, not me.

I don't live in a "tiny ghetto". You inhabit and intellectual ghetto bordered by ignorance that is policed by prejudice.

 

[becky p]

You say these things but it is abundantly clear that you have a serious problem with anyone who doesn't embrace the same view of immigration and immigrants as you and your fellow travellers. You continue to make claims like this in order to avoid proper discussion. The simple truth is that you, baldwin and durutti don't want discussion and those of us who challenge you on this issue are treated to nothing but the usual spiel...or worse, you come out with same crap about "those who disagree with you". It's dishonest.

Your idea of "proper discussion" seems to consist of avoiding answering any questions and making things up.

 

[nino_savatte]

Your idea of "proper discussion" seems to consist of avoiding answering any questions and making things up.

Like your fellow travellers, all you can do is project and take what I say and twist it. You, baldwin and durruti never make any attempt to deal with any of the points that I have raised. You're more content to complain that "I hate anyone who disagrees with me" or some such juvenile shite. It's neither honest nor intelligent.

I have made nothing up. You're a liar.

 

[becky p]

Like your fellow travellers, all you can do is project and take what I say and twist it. You, baldwin and durruti never make any attempt to deal with any of the points that I have raised. You're more content to complain that "I hate anyone who disagrees with me" or some such juvenile shite. It's neither honest nor intelligent.

I have made nothing up. You're a liar.

2 Questions.

Where have i asked for reams of data?
And where have i lied?

 

[nino_savatte]

2 Questions.

Where have i asked for reams of data?
And where have i lied?

You have lied and this is a lie

Your idea of "proper discussion" seems to consist of avoiding answering any questions and making things up.

As for "reams of data", you and your pal, baldwin constanty demand 'proof' but never oblige when it is requested of you. Odd that, but one suspects that your contentions are based on a mix of tabloid tales and your own prejudices.