Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[Fuchs66]

I guess what I'm trying to say boils down to this...


'nice of you to join us lads, pity you took so fucking long about getting off the fence...
now you're off the fence do you intend to engage withany of the wider issues that have led to this situation all over the world, or just stick to the single issue of shipped in foreign workers in your industry in the UK?'

[/rant]

this is quite a good point and TBH from outside the UK it does seem that the UK workers have been selfish, only reacting when their own personal comfort is threatened, I think international sympathy may be somewhat muted.

 

[dennisr]

this is quite a good point and TBH from outside the UK it does seem that the UK workers have been selfish, only reacting when their own personal comfort is threatened, I think international sympathy may be somewhat muted.

I think its a somewhat arrogant point that displays little understanding of how people think and experience or how activists can engage with those same people.

So these workers are 'johnny come latleys'!! to your 'schemes' and 'activism' - that's arrogant and ignorant of the day to day presures people face. Lets be frank they are STILL not part of the anti-globalisation movement - and they never will be if we approach hose individuals like some claim we should. They are simply people facing loss of jobs, homes, livelihoods and acting back. Its easy to 'rant' on the internet incoherently. First we have to show those people that we are the best support, we understand we are onside - not 'we know best'. I sometimes wonder what planet some so called 'activists' think they are on.

We arnt going to get very far if we don't meet those people halfway - if we don't get them onside if we don't show that it is worth taking the next step, recognising the direct effects of economic globalisation that british workers have been - largely - cushioned from in the recent past. I fully understand why people keep their heads down and stick with the the given 'norms' and pettiness of life most of the time. I also recognise that they can only break with that through their own experience not the 'expert' 'advise' of activists.

Lets also face the fact that working people like this can potentially achieve ten times what has been achieved by that anti-globalisation movement where it has remained (not its own fault... but lets be straight up about this) seperate from the conciousness of most working class people in any given country. That working class movement has a potential power others do not have.

Finally, on the italian press hypocracy - are we to judge international sympathy on the basis of the mealy-mouthed words of other bosses mouthpieces? as some have judged the nature of this dispute on the basis of the local bosses mothpieces? So italian newspapers have a sudden 'concern' for the 'rights' of their countrymen and women? the same italian workers who have ben shafted by the same italian and other boses since the foundation of the italian state and long before? that hypocricy and cant surprises people here???

 

[dennisr]

The text of the Socialist Party leaflet presently being put out (sorry for cut and paste - but it contains plenty of info relevant to this thread/discussion):

Leaflet written by KEITH GIBSON (G.M.B. - unofficial LOR Strike Cttee)
and JOHN McEWAN (shop stewards national forum) both in personal capacities


STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT
Iceland, Greece, France, Latvia ….. all across Europe workers are taking to the streets in protest against governments that have let the fat-cats get rich while our jobs, wages and pensions are being attacked. Now at last, workers in Britain are saying “Enough is Enough!” Our strike spread like wild-fire last week with solidarity action all across the UK with around 20 sites out by Friday. Thousands of workers taking militant action completely disregarding the anti-trade union laws. We’ve got the government rattled. We must strike while the iron is hot. We must spread the strike to force the employers and government to concede our demands.

GORDON BROWN – YOUR GOVERNMENT IS “IN-DEFENSIBLE”
Gordon Brown says our wildcat strike is “in-defensible”. No Gordon, it is your government and ten years of pro-Big Business policies that are indefensible. New Labour have encouraged employers to exploit workers in Britain through de-regulation, cheap labour and anti-union policies. Peter Mandelson says British workers can go and work in the EU. Sounds like Norman Tebbitt telling the unemployed in the 1980s to get on their bikes! Why the hell should we have to leave our homes and families to work when companies like Alstom and IREM won’t let us work here?

FIGHT FOR JOBS – STOP THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM!
The bosses, the bankers and the government have got us in this economic mess. Now they want us to pay the price with our jobs, wages and conditions. NO WAY! This strike is to stop this race to the bottom. We are striking against the employers like Alstom and IREM who refuse to hire local labour. We are striking against the EU pro-business laws and court rulings that make it legal for employers to exploit cheap labour to maximise profits.
This strike is to stop employers undermining our national NAECI agreement and trying to break our trade union strength.

Rather than saying British jobs for British workers we should say TRADE UNION JOBS & CONDITIONS FOR ALL WORKERS

WHAT DO WE WANT?
Socialist Party thinks that the trade unions should fight for:
• No victimisation of workers taking solidarity action.
• All workers in UK to be covered by NAECI Agreement
• Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available
• Government and employer investment in proper training / apprenticeships for new generation of construction workers – fight for a future for young people
• All Immigrant labour to be unionised.
• Trade Union assistance for immigrant workers - including interpreters - and access to Trade Union advice - to promote active integrated Trade Union Members.
Build links with construction trade unions on the continent.

 

[dennisr]

And the back of it (i've left out the usual SP demands for a new workers party - so the pisstakers have less to derail with :

The story so far ……………..
A ninety day redundancy notice had been issued around mid November 2008 at Lindsey Oil Refinery (LOR) for Shaws’ workforce. This meant that by February 17th 2009 a number of Shaws’ construction workers (LOR) would be made redundant.
The day before the Christmas holiday Shaws’ shop-stewards reported to the men that a part of the contract on LOR’s HDS3 plant had been awarded to IREM, an Italian company. The Stewards explained that Shaws had lost a third of the job to IREM who would be employing their own core Portuguese and Italian workforce numbering 200-300. Stewards and Union Officials asked to meet with IREM a.s.a.p. after Christmas to clarify the proposal i.e. would IREM employ British labour? Shaws’ workforce were told that the IREM workforce would be housed in floating barges in Grimsby docks for the duration of the job, they would be bussed to work in the morning, bussed to and from the barge for lunch.
IREM workers would work from 7.30am - 11.30am and 13.00 – 1700. On Saturdays they would work 4 hours to make up a working week of 44 hours. The normal working week is 44 hours divided by 5 days, from 7.30 -1600 finishing at 1400 on Fridays (most workers work overtime). Normal breaks include 10 minutes in a morning and a 30 minute dinner break.
Stewards were told that IREM workers would be paid the national rate for the job; to date this has not been confirmed. After Christmas the nominated Shop Stewards entered into negotiations with IREM. Meanwhile, a National Shop-Stewards Forum for the construction Industry held a meeting in London to discuss Staythorpe Power Station where the company Alstom were refusing to hire British labour relying on non union Polish and Spanish workers instead.
It was decided that all Blue Book sites covered by the National Agreement for the Engineering and Construction Industry (NAECI) should send delegations down to Staythorpe to protest against Alstoms’ actions. The workforce on the LOR site sent delegations. Then, on Wednesday 28th January 2009 Shaws’ workforce were told by the Stewards that IREM had stated they would not be employing British labour.
The entire LOR workforce, from all subcontracting companies, met and voted unanimously to take immediate unofficial strike action. The following day over a thousand construction workers from LOR, Conoco and Easington sites descended outside LOR’s gate to picket and protest.
This was the spark that ignited the spontaneous unofficial walk outs of our brother construction workers across the length and breadth of Britain. This worker solidarity is against the ‘conscious blacking’ of British construction workers by company bosses who refuse to recruit skilled British labour in the U.K.
The workers of LOR, Conoco and Easington did not take strike action against immigrant workers. Our action is rightly aimed against company bosses who attempt to play off one nationality of worker against the other and undermine the NAECI agreement.

UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.UNITY IS OUR STRENGTH
The RACIST ORGANISATION - the BNP are attempting to intervene in this strike.
How dare they?
The BNP is an anti-trade union organisation that supported Thatcher against the miners in the 1980s.
They opposed the Firefighters’ strike claiming ‘they should not even have the right to strike’.
They have set up their own ‘segregated’ union that will split and divide workers.
BNP policies are like the policies of company bosses who attempt to play off one nationality of worker against another thus undermining the national agreements that protect the hard won rights of workers like the NAECI Agreement in the Construction Industry.

Downloadable from: http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/

 

[danny la rouge]

I was thinking, even more simply, of just "All labour to be unionised"

Yes, fair enough. But I think the salient point here is migrant workers.

My take on it is this: this isn't a new issue, and shouldn't really have taken the union bureaucracies by surprise. It's been an issue since the first years of the union movement. The STUC in Scotland in its first years had the issue of Polish workers in the Lanarkshire coalfields. The IWW in the US had the issue of bosses using migrant workers to undercut pay and conditions. And the French syndicalist unions had the same issue. All at the very start of those movements.

In all those cases the answer was the same - make sure the migrant workers are unionised so that pay and conditions can't be undercut.

In this case we've got guys given 90 day notices followed by the subcontractors saying they're only bringing in migrant workers, and not taking on any of the local workforce, despite the skills and experience. Why? Well, the suspicion has got to be that the migrant workers are on lower pay and conditions.

The trade union movement has had more than 100 years to get used to that issue, and if a few banners throwing back Gordon Brown's daft slogan at him is going to stump them, then, really, how do they expect workers to take them seriously?

 

[dennisr]

In all those cases the answer was the same - make sure the migrant workers are unionised so that pay and conditions can't be undercut.

Absolutely

 

[steve0223]

Originally Posted by snadge
John, Jon, Steve and Rach can go and dip their rings.
FUCK OFF.
We already know what the struggle is, we don't need middle class wankers dialoguing with us.

Fair enough. It does come across a bit 'we have the answers, those unaware proles will listen to us' but at least it's an improvement on a lot of the shite that has been coming out of the left lately.I was just glad that they are encouraging people to come out of their ghettos a bit, to forget what 'positions' and 'demands' they have on other issues and just offer some practical support and solidarity. Thats a bit of movement.

ste

 

[danny la rouge]

Absolutely

So, as I asked in my first post on the thread, can anyone tell me if the Italian/Portuguese workers have been approached by the strikers/unions?

 

[dennisr]

So, as I asked in my first post on the thread, can anyone tell me if the Italian/Portuguese workers have been approached by the strikers/unions?

You would have to have better contact directly with the strikers than I do to answer that question

(I imagine some folk have been attempting to approach them - how successful they would be, given the practical situation - how they are housed, I wouldn't know)

 

[dennisr]

I was just glad that they are encouraging people to come out of their ghettos a bit

It probably better they stay in their ghettos along with the 'left' fantasists if that's their attitude

 

[audiotech]

Worth remembering the European court of Justice's two recent rulings :

http://www.thompsons.law.co.uk/ntext/ecj-decision-laval.htm

http://www.amicustheunion.org/lavalvikingruffert/default.aspx

 

[treelover]

Again, one has to ask where were the mass marches against the Posted Worker directive, the Lisbon Treaty, etc?, there were plenty in Europe, the left is culpable whatever some on here say, particualrty with its focus on anti-imperialism. A positive suggestion, the starting point for a new left should be a mea culpa, an acceptance they took the eye off the ball. Then a re-oriention, for example the welfare reforms are going to be savage, just at a time when the unemployed will need realy genunine help, yet still no national campaign has been launched, the SP's new youth 'right to work' campaign laudable as it is, doesn't mention benefits, harrassment of young claimants, etc,

 

[brix]

They're discussing this on Daily Politics BB2 now.

 

[Dissident Junk]

After this thread, and seeing Cruddas on Newsnight and reading about the issues elsewhere, I've been doing a lot of thinking about this situation. And I have come to some pretty awkward conclusions: the EU is a disaster waiting to happen. I also wonder whether it could lead to the very thing it was intended to avoid -- serious conflict.

Remember Eddie George's "job losses in the north are an acceptable price to pay for curbing inflation in the south"?

Well, I suspect that the EU model has widened the economic sphere so that this attitude and approach can apply to the entire European economic area, not just the circumstances within a nation state. Except this time is not north versus south per se (though there is elements of that: Greece, Spain and Ireland have suffered for the stability of German housewives) but working people versus business. And the situation has further undermined working people's positions within this 'new zone'.

Workers in this new 'area' no long have parallel rights, welfare benefits and educational access to one another. They don't all have a reasonable equality of accessibility to available jobs across 'the zone'. They might not have had the same equality before, but the expansion of the labour market pool has exacerbated differences.

Depending on where said jobs are and how long workers work there, working people receive different levels of health provision and welfare benefits, and barriers to job accessibility have now increased in terms of awareness of regional health and safety policy, and language skills. In short, the EU model, with free movement of labour, looks to benefit working people -- and this is how it was originally sold -- but, actually, it is a bit of a devil's bargain. The economic disparities between EU states are ripe for abuse and exploitation -- both in terms of currency, inflation, legacy industries, education systems, and cost of living.

There was a piece recently (can't remember where I read it) about German firms losing out on tenders for jobs to Polish firms, whose tenders were so low, they could not feasibly make any money out of the work. The Polish firms were taking it at a loss.

Again, another very awkward subject with sinister overtones: voting rights. Both for foreign EU nationals and home nationals. Lets say you are Polish, and you come to the UK for work. You can vote in local and euro elections, but not in the General Election. But you work here and pay income tax and NI. You are an adult. Maybe you stay in the UK for a number of years. But you have no say over where your income tax money is spent -- a quarter of your pay after PA.

Now replicate that across the EU zone. Hundreds of thousands of EU migrants paying tax and NI in other EU countries with NO REPRESENTATION and NO SAY in the way that particular national government spends their money (apart from what Ireland may do, but that is by the bye). You could end up with a situation in EU countries where a significant minority of income tax payers have no political representation at national level, and are fundamentally transient or disenfranchised -- this situation is ripe for exploitation.

The problem is that we still have sovereign nation state political structures and power, but 'global' market state processes are undermining this system. This will be a time of great tension, and these wildcats strikes are the opening chords here in the UK.

You know what? I think everyone should buy some candles. Just in case.

 

[audiotech]

More from Jerry Hicks:

Why has it taken national strike action for the media to wake up to the well founded and widespread grievances of construction workers? On 7 January I circulated a statement to the press warning of the crisis and the growing anger and frustration of the workers whose concerns were not being aired or addressed either by the press or their own union leaders.

So, some on the left have been actively trying to address the grievances, but union leaders have buried their heads and ignored them.

And as Hicks rightly points out that Gordon Brown's call for "British Jobs for British workers" 'has created a huge problem of his own making'.

Thanks to Brown's use of nationalist rhetoric, progressives will find it more difficult to be heard. Pandering to the politics of the BNP is always destructive to any unity and only benefits the right, so Brown bears all the responsibility for the fall out.

Encouragingly, activists on the left are challenging such divisive talk.

This is not about race or prejudice and we are actively challenging any attempt by the BNP to spread their poison. It is about the exploitation of labour, playing one worker off against another. It is about the employers trying to break nationally agreed arrangements and in doing so it is an attack on the union.

http://www.respectrenewal.org/content/view/483/1/

 

[brasicritique]

no, just pointing out your basic factual errors

no it is you who has made the bigest factual error by comparing the curent economic situation to the thatcher years when in fact what is happening now has more in common with the 1920s/30s while you still spin the newshamebore approach that it was all worse during the thacther years

 

[durruti02]

good stuff from th SP dennis

 

[durruti02]

after reading through this thread, and scouring the web, here's my take on it from a sustainable development pov for what it's worth...


Any largescale industrial plant inevitably pollutes the local area in the course of it's routine operations, and has the risk of causing severe pollution incidents if something should go wrong - eg an oil tanker running agound in the fishing areas etc.

When a company first get's permission to build a facility like the Lindsey Oil Refinery they will always do so with the promise of bringing thousands of jobs to the area, and pumping hundreds of millions of pounds a year into the wider local economy as workers live locally and spend money in local shops, pubs, rents, etc etc.

This in effect is a social contract with the local community that they agree to accept the air, land and water pollution, increased traffic, trashing of the landscape, and increased risk of major pollution incidents... and in return the company will pump money into the local economy by employing local people, and travelling workers who either temporarily or permanently live and spend money in the local area while working at the site.

By signing a contract with a foreign firm to employ 300 foreign workers, and no local workers, with the foreign workers all living and eating aboard a floatel, ensuring that virtually none of the money from the contract finds it's way to the local community at all... Total have effectively broken the social contract with the local community that they made when they first built the site. The local community still has to put up with all the problems caused by the site, but now doesn't get the benefits it was promised in return.

Now I'm sure no actual laws have technically been broken, but I'd bet my left index finger that the above economic arguement was used by the company when they originally applied for permission to build on the site, and will have been the line trumpeted in the local papers with headlines along the lines of 'thousands of jobs come to the area as new oil refinery to be built'... and this is what local people will remember, and why they'll feel that they have been lied to and betrayed by the company who's done this, and the authorities that have passed the laws that allowed this to happen

So yes the people protesting absolutely have the moral right to be protesting about Total's action in breaking their social contract with the local community by signing a £300million contract that guarantees exclusive employment to non-locals, thereby removing most of £300million from the local economy and no this is not a racist action.

Where I think they've gone wrong is in the 'british jobs for british people' slogan, as it really should read 'local jobs for local people', coz they'd be equally pissed off if a load of cornishmen were brought up on mass to live in a floatel, not spend any money locally, and only cornishmen were being recruited for the work... equally I've seen no evidence that anyone is protesting about any individual foreigners, or british people from outside the area who want to come and work at the plant and live normally in the local community, so that much of the momey they earn ends up in the local economy.

This is in addition to the stuff Snadge and others have talked about in regards to undercutting wages.

good post

 

[frogwoman]

After this thread, and seeing Cruddas on Newsnight and reading about the issues elsewhere, I've been doing a lot of thinking about this situation. And I have come to some pretty awkward conclusions: the EU is a disaster waiting to happen. I also wonder whether it could lead to the very thing it was intended to avoid -- serious conflict.

Remember Eddie George's "job losses in the north are an acceptable price to pay for curbing inflation in the south"?

Well, I suspect that the EU model has widened the economic sphere so that this attitude and approach can apply to the entire European economic area, not just the circumstances within a nation state. Except this time is not north versus south per se (though there is elements of that: Greece, Spain and Ireland have suffered for the stability of German housewives) but working people versus business. And the situation has further undermined working people's positions within this 'new zone'.

Workers in this new 'area' no long have parallel rights, welfare benefits and educational access to one another. They don't all have a reasonable equality of accessibility to available jobs across 'the zone'. They might not have had the same equality before, but the expansion of the labour market pool has exacerbated differences.

Depending on where said jobs are and how long workers work there, working people receive different levels of health provision and welfare benefits, and barriers to job accessibility have now increased in terms of awareness of regional health and safety policy, and language skills. In short, the EU model, with free movement of labour, looks to benefit working people -- and this is how it was originally sold -- but, actually, it is a bit of a devil's bargain. The economic disparities between EU states are ripe for abuse and exploitation -- both in terms of currency, inflation, legacy industries, education systems, and cost of living.

There was a piece recently (can't remember where I read it) about German firms losing out on tenders for jobs to Polish firms, whose tenders were so low, they could not feasibly make any money out of the work. The Polish firms were taking it at a loss.

Again, another very awkward subject with sinister overtones: voting rights. Both for foreign EU nationals and home nationals. Lets say you are Polish, and you come to the UK for work. You can vote in local and euro elections, but not in the General Election. But you work here and pay income tax and NI. You are an adult. Maybe you stay in the UK for a number of years. But you have no say over where your income tax money is spent -- a quarter of your pay after PA.

Now replicate that across the EU zone. Hundreds of thousands of EU migrants paying tax and NI in other EU countries with NO REPRESENTATION and NO SAY in the way that particular national government spends their money (apart from what Ireland may do, but that is by the bye). You could end up with a situation in EU countries where a significant minority of income tax payers have no political representation at national level, and are fundamentally transient or disenfranchised -- this situation is ripe for exploitation.

The problem is that we still have sovereign nation state political structures and power, but 'global' market state processes are undermining this system. This will be a time of great tension, and these wildcats strikes are the opening chords here in the UK.

You know what? I think everyone should buy some candles. Just in case.

I don't always agree with your politics DJ, but that was an excellent post and more or less sums up my feeelings on the matter. I've felt that way about the EU for a long time.

 

[treelover]

Where is a statement from John McDonnell and the LRC?, they constitute a large part of the non revolutionary left, (bigger than all of them) its crazy they have not yet commented.


Though, sadly I suspect they will come out against the strikes,

http://grimmerupnorth.blogspot.com/

 

[treelover]

Compass, soft left of LP seem to have come out in support

http://www.compassonline.org.uk/news/item.asp?n=3838

 

[audiotech]

The issues appear to have been raised in early January by CLLR Mark Kirk, of North Lincolnshire Council and Shona McIsaac who met with Lindsey Oil Refinery bosses back then.

From Shona McIsaac’s website, republished on BearFacts

The number of workers employed on the project will increase by 500-600 by the end of February 2009. After discussions current contractors, it was decided to go out to tender to recruit more workers. A condition of the tender was that there had to be no redundancies from the existing workforce on the project.

Stories about the Italian workers have been controversial in the area. Shona and Mark raised the concerns that had been voiced to them.

Total stated that these accusations simply aren’t true.

‘Mark and I were informed that Irem have worked with Total elsewhere and their workers are directly employed by Irem and are also fully qualified. No on site contractors have been laid off to award Irem the work. They are also being paid the going rate for the work – not less than British contractors. We were also been told that if Irem have any vacancies while working on the project, those posts will be open to workers here.

‘Other people have been worried about the so called ‘floating hotel’ that will house Irem’s staff. It was explained to Mark and I that accommodation barges had been used on contracts elsewhere in Europe quite successfully. Catering and cleaning will be done by local workers, which is welcome.

Shona and Mark were also provided with information about the forthcoming shutdown of the refinery which will see two-thirds of the refinery out of action for inspection.

The refinery shutdown will take place between February and April 2009. During this period, an additional 1,100 workers will be on site.

Lindsey bosses told Shona that, while the vast majority of workers involved in the shutdown will be British, there will also be Polish workers on site as British firm, Amec, have about 100 Polish workers involved. In order to address concerns about safety, Amec have agreed to put in place supervisors who are fluent in both Polish and English. The firm have also agreed to double the number of supervisors as an additional measure to ensure workers’ safety. Once more trade unions will be involved and consulted.

Total assured me that they are determined to build this new Hydro Desulphurisation unit and they will continue to invest here.’

9 January 2009

My emphasis.

I've highlighted some of what was reported, the whole document can be read here.

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3504#comments

 

[sihhi]

WRP

WRP are in full support.

http://www.wrp.org.uk/news/3953

 

[Fruitloop]

I would have thought that one of the most interesting aspects of these current actions is that they demostrate worker solidarity outside union structures, and that this is surely a more important development than the continuing irrelevance of tiny soft-left grouplets.

 

[butchersapron]

The issues appear to have been raised in early January by CLLR Mark Kirk, of North Lincolnshire Council and Shona McIsaac who met with Lindsey Oil Refinery bosses back then.


My emphasis.

I've highlighted some of what was reported, the whole document can be read here.

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3504#comments

So what? Are you openly coming out against the strike now? Yeah, i always believe bosses and councillors over the workers with direct experience myself.

 

[Fruitloop]

Maybe they could employ some of the unused skilled labour to swill out the floating barracks for the imported workers. Ha ha.

 

[butchersapron]

I would have thought that one of the most interesting aspects of these current actions is that they demostrate worker solidarity outside union structures, and that this is surely a more important development than the continuing irrelevance of tiny soft-left grouplets.

Absolutely. Thats said, there's been a number of stewards winking and suggesting it's been union led behind the scenes...

 

[Fruitloop]

Absolutely. Thats said, there's been a number of stewards winking and suggesting it's been union led behind the scenes...

That would be an encouraging sign tbh.

 

[audiotech]

So what? Are you openly coming out against the strike now? Yeah, i always believe bosses and councillors over the workers with direct experience myself.

That info will be read by some of those involved on the bearfacts site. Let's hope they use it wisely to counter BNP lies and to hold the bosses, councillors and union leaders to account.

 

[nightbreed]

Just heard from a mate of mine who works at Fawley Refinery for DSL (scaffolders) in Hampshire.

About 100 of them have walked including Polish Scaffolders.

Local News report.