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Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

no you have constructed a very nasty inference i have called you out i have qouted treelover as he said what i did albeit using differtent words your a nasty piece of work who has been rumbled and you know it judging by your last comment above that you are now abusing yourself :rolleyes: your a cockroach

Yeah yea, you know what you said, you know that you were attacking belboid and durrutti over their, in your view, being more concerned with race than the issue. Now stop bleating and fuck off. Go and call someone a bitch and feel happy with yourself.
 
To be frank, i wonder whether the effort wasted in trying to raise the understanding of the sort of infantile idiots - who claim to be 'left' but don't seem to have a clue about what the working class is and how it acts - is really worth it. I mean we could go back to the left elements of the SA supporting strike movements - but it isn't like these people have learnt the basics in that many decades. It is a closed book to them. I hope they stay well away - idiots like that could end up leading some angry folk into the arms of the BNP by default.


i as having exactly the same conversation with your irish comrade at the BBC demo just last monday! he he :D we agreed it was good the SW types stuck to studentish demos like that rather than intervene ( interfer) with stuff on the ground here!
 
Yeah yea, you know what you said, you know that you were attacking belboid and durrutti over their, in your view, being more concerned with race than the issue. Now stop bleating and fuck off. Go and call someone a bitch and feel happy with yourself.


i have already said and will say again for the millionth time you are constructing an inference in order to make yourself feel good and smear me in a way that trivialises the seriousness of the whol epoint of wading in with th eidea of discussing rascism at this time so why dont you go and fuck off and moan to the mods as you clealry lack somthing in your life to make you happy end of:rolleyes:
 
i as having exactly the same conversation with your irish comrade at the BBC demo just last monday! he he :D we agreed it was good the SW types stuck to studentish demos like that rather than intervene ( interfer) with stuff on the ground here!

so do you not agree that it is dangerous for the whole issue of race to start getting thrown about willy nilly then?
 
i have already said and will say again for the millionth time you are constructing an inference in order to make yourself feel good and smear me in a way that trivialises the seriousness of the whol epoint of wading in with th eidea of discussing rascism at this time so why dont you go and fuck off and moan to the mods as you clealry lack somthing in your life to make you happy end of:rolleyes:

No one is trivialising anything.
 
Good stuff, Dennis, but why is it when others say these things it is 'whinging';)
well, purely in my experience i hope you realise, that's because those accused of whining only mention the critical bits, and never the constructive bits

;)
 
Once again, why should UK nationals take precedence over foreign workers?

Now I know this is not the case here,but,what opinion do you think you would hold if you were replaced in your employment by a foreign worker because the foreign worker was willing to do your job for a smaller salary?
 
not on this scale you prat so shut it:rolleyes:

i'd recommend you go and look into the changes thatcher and co made to the financial laws when she got into power. you'll find that bankers actually gained a hell of a lot more in financial terms from her than they will do even from this bail out.
 
What's really behind the Lindsey Oil Refinery strike

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/latest/6849


Keith Gibson, Personal Capacity, G.M.B. - unofficial LOR Strike Committee.
Note: At the time of writing there are plans to lobby Alstom Head Offices on 5th February in London. A ninety day redundancy notice had been issued around mid November 2008 at Lindsey Oil Refinery (LOR) for Shaws' workforce. This meant that by February 17th 2009 a number of Shaws' construction workers (LOR) would be made redundant. The day before the Christmas holiday Shaws' shop-stewards reported to the men that a part of the contract on LOR's HDS3 plant had been awarded to IREM, an Italian company....

Another bit:
This worker solidarity is against the 'conscious blacking' of British construction workers by company bosses who refuse to recruit skilled British labour in the U.K. The workers of LOR, Conoco and Easington did not take strike action against immigrant workers. Our action is rightly aimed against company bosses who attempt to play off one nationality of worker against the other and undermine the NAECI agreement. THE B.N.P. SHOULD TAKE HEED, U.K. CONSTRUCTION WORKERS WILL NOT TOLERATE 'ANOTHER RACIST ATTEMPT' TO SEVER FRATERNAL RELATIONS WITH WORKERS FROM OTHER NATIONS

And some demands being raised:

Demands for Construction Industry:
* No victimisation of workers taking solidarity action.
* All workers in UK to be covered by NAECI Agreement
* Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members
* Government and employer investment in proper training / apprenticeships for new generation of construction workers
* All Immigrant labour to be unionised.
* Trade Union assistance for immigrant workers - via interpreters - to give right of access to Trade Union advice - to promote active integrated Trade Union Members

Interesting stuf, ta :)
 
Now I know this is not the case here,but,what opinion do you think you would hold if you were replaced in your employment by a foreign worker because the foreign worker was willing to do your job for a smaller salary?

use of the word 'foreign' shouldn't have any relevance there, should it?
 
What's really behind the Lindsey Oil Refinery strike

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/latest/6849


Keith Gibson, Personal Capacity, G.M.B. - unofficial LOR Strike Committee.
Note: At the time of writing there are plans to lobby Alstom Head Offices on 5th February in London. A ninety day redundancy notice had been issued around mid November 2008 at Lindsey Oil Refinery (LOR) for Shaws' workforce. This meant that by February 17th 2009 a number of Shaws' construction workers (LOR) would be made redundant. The day before the Christmas holiday Shaws' shop-stewards reported to the men that a part of the contract on LOR's HDS3 plant had been awarded to IREM, an Italian company....

Another bit:
This worker solidarity is against the 'conscious blacking' of British construction workers by company bosses who refuse to recruit skilled British labour in the U.K. The workers of LOR, Conoco and Easington did not take strike action against immigrant workers. Our action is rightly aimed against company bosses who attempt to play off one nationality of worker against the other and undermine the NAECI agreement. THE B.N.P. SHOULD TAKE HEED, U.K. CONSTRUCTION WORKERS WILL NOT TOLERATE 'ANOTHER RACIST ATTEMPT' TO SEVER FRATERNAL RELATIONS WITH WORKERS FROM OTHER NATIONS

And some demands being raised:

Demands for Construction Industry:
* No victimisation of workers taking solidarity action.
* All workers in UK to be covered by NAECI Agreement
* Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members
* Government and employer investment in proper training / apprenticeships for new generation of construction workers
* All Immigrant labour to be unionised.
* Trade Union assistance for immigrant workers - via interpreters - to give right of access to Trade Union advice - to promote active integrated Trade Union Members

I'd drop the word 'immigrant' from the fifth demand, but otherwise, top stuff.
 
i'd recommend you go and look into the changes thatcher and co made to the financial laws when she got into power. you'll find that bankers actually gained a hell of a lot more in financial terms from her than they will do even from this bail out.

bullshit brown has put us in debt for the next twenty years that old bitch did not your still defedning newshamebore to th eend:rolleyes:
 
sorry, should of said. got the blog from a direct link from their website, and those are their posters.

Aye, the posters are linked to from the BNP homepage.

Am not up on current state of play, but that must surely require an imprint "eg Printed and Published by...." or as its download probably just "published by Name and Address" and like I said they can have them for sedition.

I say that not because I have lack of empathy with the strikers, quite the contrary, the underlying issues are exactly what Unions are for. But oil and gas has had a shaky 6 months,with prices plummeting; and thinking about whats been going on with the banks especially given the involvement of private equity in UK refining; the last thing they need is opportunists blundering about around them as they try to catch their falling colleagues while themselves on a perilous tightrope.

I linked to the Viking & Lavel thread (64 views 3 posts as of today) not out of opportunism, but because it is a genuine obstacle in their way or rather sticking to the tightrope analogy: like replacing a safety net with spikes, all in the name of justice and ever closer union:hmm:. For once though it is good to see the political classes mobilising quickly to address this, though how successfully time will tell(won't be case specific).

Watching this, the other bit that really does alarm me has been the paralysis nay almost horror of the left. I've mainly be getting my news off Radio 4 where its been quite clear that this isn't about malice towards the cheaper replacement workers themselves, so I've been a bit perplexed about the "racism" notion that seemed to have caught the left like a rabbit in the headlights. Obviously through wider/ different coverage it could be down to a number of things, but I suspect it may be the use of the slogan British Jobs/British workers and if so I think the left is headed into dangerous doldrums.

All politics has to ground itself, I mean litrerally there is always a geo level to politics, be it the ward or constituency that will be represented, the area where tax and laws are applied ....an aloof I'm internationalist standpoint looking down won't work,can't work. Has to be me, here working onwards and outwards gradually (or rapidly with modern comms) working with likeminded further afield to affect change. You don't have to be, in fact preferably without being, rampantly tribal, but you do have to build up from roots; or you can wait for the Internationalist Elections.

Secondly let's assume "British Jobs for British Workers" is racist, there is a case, after all before Brown it was a slogan in the early 70's by the NF apparently, I was born 72 so I never came across it in that context. But then I grew up very happily in a nation that isn't all one race. Start pinning race and nationality together and the last 60 years have been for nought, and you let the likes of the BNP call the terrain.

Last post for me this thread.
 
after reading through this thread, and scouring the web, here's my take on it from a sustainable development pov for what it's worth...


Any largescale industrial plant inevitably pollutes the local area in the course of it's routine operations, and has the risk of causing severe pollution incidents if something should go wrong - eg an oil tanker running agound in the fishing areas etc.

When a company first get's permission to build a facility like the Lindsey Oil Refinery they will always do so with the promise of bringing thousands of jobs to the area, and pumping hundreds of millions of pounds a year into the wider local economy as workers live locally and spend money in local shops, pubs, rents, etc etc.

This in effect is a social contract with the local community that they agree to accept the air, land and water pollution, increased traffic, trashing of the landscape, and increased risk of major pollution incidents... and in return the company will pump money into the local economy by employing local people, and travelling workers who either temporarily or permanently live and spend money in the local area while working at the site.

By signing a contract with a foreign firm to employ 300 foreign workers, and no local workers, with the foreign workers all living and eating aboard a floatel, ensuring that virtually none of the money from the contract finds it's way to the local community at all... Total have effectively broken the social contract with the local community that they made when they first built the site. The local community still has to put up with all the problems caused by the site, but now doesn't get the benefits it was promised in return.

Now I'm sure no actual laws have technically been broken, but I'd bet my left index finger that the above economic arguement was used by the company when they originally applied for permission to build on the site, and will have been the line trumpeted in the local papers with headlines along the lines of 'thousands of jobs come to the area as new oil refinery to be built'... and this is what local people will remember, and why they'll feel that they have been lied to and betrayed by the company who's done this, and the authorities that have passed the laws that allowed this to happen

So yes the people protesting absolutely have the moral right to be protesting about Total's action in breaking their social contract with the local community by signing a £300million contract that guarantees exclusive employment to non-locals, thereby removing most of £300million from the local economy and no this is not a racist action.

Where I think they've gone wrong is in the 'british jobs for british people' slogan, as it really should read 'local jobs for local people', coz they'd be equally pissed off if a load of cornishmen were brought up on mass to live in a floatel, not spend any money locally, and only cornishmen were being recruited for the work... equally I've seen no evidence that anyone is protesting about any individual foreigners, or british people from outside the area who want to come and work at the plant and live normally in the local community, so that much of the momey they earn ends up in the local economy.

This is in addition to the stuff Snadge and others have talked about in regards to undercutting wages.
 
for info. from the FT:
Meanwhile, as ministers sounded warnings over the dangers of protectionism, Sicily’s conservative governor, Raffaele Lombardo, threatened to retaliate against UK interests if he saw evidence of “xenophobic hate”.

The Sicily governor’s angry reaction was not echoed by the Italian government. However, it underlined the dangers of the wildcat strikes backfiring on British workers overseas. “If the reports are confirmed of xenophobic hate directed against the Sicilians, we would not hesitate to break off negotiations with the Erg-Shell group that has proposed building a regasification plant right in the province of Siracusa, at Priolo,” Mr Lombardo said in Italian media reports.


La Republica in Italy are giving prominent coverage of this story and are describing the strikes as "anti-Italian":
http://www.repubblica.it/2009/01/se...wn-contro-scioperi/brown-contro-scioperi.html


Meanwhile Jon Cruddas is again supporting the strikes in the Mirror:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...mad-in-the-race-to-cut-wages-115875-21088411/
 
shagnasty said:
A good piece well put:)
cheers... this is the thing about sustainable development in it's original non-watered down form - it actually makes a lot of sense, and properly understanding the concept would help people in this kind of situation to properly communicate what the real source of their anger is in a way that pretty much the entire country could understand and agree with.

problem is that as soon as you mention the words sustainable development, people's eyes tend to glaze over and they decide you must be about to spout on about polar bears or something due largely to pig ignorant politicians (and a fair few clueless hippies) hijacking the phrase for their own ends, without having the first clue about what it actually means... the ideas outlined above are pretty much the core concept of sustainable development, yet they're almost entirely absent from the UN and subsequent government agreements on sustainable development presumably because they conflict too much with the oh so spectacularly successful global economic miracle that is neoliberal free trade.

btw this is essentially the same issue that us middle class anarchist ecowarrior types have been campaigning on for years if you boil it down to multinational companies screwing over the local population, and not living up to the social contracts they entered into when the local people agreed to them building their plants in the area - eg the Ogoni people's campaign against shell in Nigeria. Now it's happening here (to a much lesser extent), and the workers are issuing calls for solidairty... did I miss the UK oil workers uprising in solidarity with the Ogoni people when their peaceful mass campaign against the Oil multinationals pollution of their lands, and failure to pay them the agreed fees was brutally repressed in the mid 90's at the behest of the oil companies? oh no, that's right, it was just a good excuse for british oil workers to earn extra danger money going and working the nigerian oil fields against the express wishes of the local population.

That's just one example, but IMO the UK oil workers record in recent decades of solidarity with other workers and affected communities around the world in their disputes with the oil companies has been pitiful, with UK oil workers being among the biggest international scabs in the industry, happy to take the oil companies money to work under armed guard where necessary to keep the oil companies profits flowing in the face of mass local opposition to their activities.

So, I really wouldn't be surprised if there's not a huge outpouring of international solidarity with the UK workers now the boot's on the other foot, particularly if they continue to use the utterly counter productive 'british jobs for british workers' line... yes the cause is just, but so were all the other causes that UK workers chose to take the side of the oil companies over the local population on.

UK unions, and unionised workers have also been noticable by their absense from any meaningful action against the expansion of the global neoliberal experiment over the last 15 years or so, whereas in many other countries the Unions have played a much fuller role in the movement. Maybe they thought none of this applied to them, and it was all about the 3rd world or something.

I guess what I'm trying to say boils down to this...


'nice of you to join us lads, pity you took so fucking long about getting off the fence...
now you're off the fence do you intend to engage withany of the wider issues that have led to this situation all over the world, or just stick to the single issue of shipped in foreign workers in your industry in the UK?'


[/rant]
 
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