Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[Fedayn]

An answer to my question without the petulance would do.

IE, how do those demands relate to Bf4bw?

That's what we're seeing pickets calling for. Will the demands you list negate that or do they incorporate it?

What do you think? What do you think will happen if they accept those demands? Of course they will all be perfectly rounded out revolutionaties in an instant. FFS, I hope you stay away from the picket lines.

 

[Fedayn]

Yes, it's obviously all about building pan-European w/c solidarity.

Who says it was? Who said it was some perfect strike? Away and wipe your nose.

 

[Fedayn]

Hmmm, very defensive. I'm just asking a question.

Do those demands negate Bf4bw or do they incorporate it?

You want them to be big bad racists don't you? No mention of the strikers telling the BNP to fuck off. Nah, you just want to be right and label tham wacists!

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes, it's obviously all about building pan-European w/c solidarity.

1. They're throwing back in Gordon's face something he said.
2. The guys there were given 90 day notices and then told they weren't being considered for the contract.
3. The company is obviously undercutting pay and conditions.

Blaming the strikers for that seems the wrong analysis.

 

[chilango]

FFS what more do you want?! It's what the strike committee are going to put to the mass meeting, the strike committee agreed it after an SP member and supporter-both on the atrike committee-put it mforward. If the mass meeting accepts those demands it rather makes a mockery of the simplistic claim that it's a racist/anti-immigrant/italian labour strike.

Good. Interesting times.

 

[Fedayn]

Good. Interesting times.

Hopefully very interesting chilango yes.

 

[treelover]

On of the key factors in all this is the deskilling that has gone on under the last two regimes, the New Deal has failed but made milions and millions for people like A4E and its owner, Emma Harrison.

 

[Spion]

You want them to be big bad racists don't you? No mention of the strikers telling the BNP to fuck off. Nah, you just want to be right and label tham wacists!

Settle down now. You're being hysterical.

I simply want to know what is to become of the bj4bw slogan that is so prominent should the demands you list be won and therefore what would constitute a victory for the strike.

 

[Fedayn]

Settle down now. You're being hysterical.

I simply want to know what is to become of the bj4bw slogan that is so prominent should the demands you list be won and therefore what would constitute a victory for the strike.

I think labelling it a racist inspired strike was hysterical.

I would hope that the demand, that was originally chucked back in Browns face, would start to dominish. I'm sure it won't go away completely as things arte never straightforward and linear.

 

[treelover]

'In his diaries for 1968, Tony Benn records the ugly scenes as workers marched past the Commons demanding that Labour adopt the anti-foreigner and ultra-nationalist rhetoric unleashed by Enoch Powell.

The simmering nationalist tensions stoked up by the Daily Mail's campaign against Polish workers or the vulgar anti-European xenophobia of William Hague and cohorts among Tory and Ukip MPs has now come to life, as construction workers demonstrate against a handful of Italian workers on the cold Humber coastline.'


The odious Dennis Macshane MP has come out with his views, etc, basically comparing the strikers to the Dockers in 68, bit like a few on here


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -far-right

 

[dennisr]

I would hope that the demand, that was originally chucked back in Browns face, would start to dominish. I'm sure it won't go away completely as things arte never straightforward and linear.

You would think that the Spion would understand such basics wouldn't you?

all these innocent questions

 

[tangentlama]

Yes, it's obviously all about building pan-European w/c solidarity.

Primarily it ought to be about building pan-European w/c solidarity!
So did the Brit Unions talk to the Italian Unions already?

 

[dennisr]

It really ought to be about building pan-European w/c solidarity!

And - if carefully and skillfully argued - it can be

 

[Spion]

The strike started over the employment of Italians on the site.

What would constitute a victory for the strike with regard to that original issue?

Would the 'diminishing' of the bj4bw slogan mean those workers retained their jobs or not?

 

[chilango]

And - if carefully and skillfully argued - it can be

...and if it is to win it has to be.

 

[butchersapron]

Milford haven walkout - South Hook LNG terminal. 500 out.

 

[dennisr]

The strike started over the employment of Italians on the site.

What would constitute a victory for the strike with regard to that original issue?

Would the 'diminishing' of the bj4bw slogan mean those workers retained their jobs or not?

the strike started against the 'conscious blacking' of British construction workers by company bosses who refuse to recruit skilled British labour in the U.K - who wish to smash trade union rates and rights and livelihoods. That's why the recruitment agents have refused to consider the local workforce. Surprising that I should have to say this to a self-stated 'revolutionary' but the press does not always give the real story.

What do you think a 'victory' for the strike would therefore consist of? - the replacement of the hundreds of workers who previously worked there by cheaper labour using EU boss laws and without a whimper? surely not?

 

[DotCommunist]

'Lord' Mandy should be doing his commons statement on this about now....wish I had the parliament channel

 

[dennisr]

Milford haven walkout - South Hook LNG terminal. 500 out.

racists

 

[dennisr]

...and if it is to win it has to be.

absolutely - which is why some of the comments of some so-called revolutionaries on this thread is beneath contempt

 

[butchersapron]

'Lord' Mandy should be doing his commons statement on this about now....wish I had the parliament channel

Radio 5 i expect.

 

[DotCommunist]

Radio 5 i expect.

aye spot on.

he's lying through his teeth about payments AFAIK

 

[DotCommunist]

now he harps on the sanctity of freedom of labour movememnt and how british workers have the right to work in europe.. yadda yadda,

 

[DotCommunist]

he's basically denied that there was discrimination, and denied that this was based on disparity of pay scales.

I believe he is full of shit.

 

[butchersapron]

Nothing he says is of relevance really. It's not about him or his dept anymore.

100 or so out at sizewell now.

 

[Spion]

the strike started against the 'conscious blacking' of British construction workers by company bosses who refuse to recruit skilled British labour in the U.K - who wish to smash trade union rates and rights and livelihoods.

But it started with the slogan bj4bw, no? And since then local union reps (incl. SP ones) have tried (succeeded?) to get rid of that slogan and have replaced it with demands that do not (explicitly) say that? Is that the case?

What do you think a 'victory' for the strike would therefore consist of?

If it's a stike for bj4bw than a victory would be either the sacking of the Italians and implementation of employment practices that ensured bj4bws. If its demands are the ones you've repoduced here then there won't be the sacking of the Italians but will include TU monitoring of who should be employed or not, among other things

"Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available." What about those that aren't local? This is pretty important.

 

[dennisr]

But it started with the slogan bj4bw, no?

Oh, how innocent your questions.

The origin of the slogan has been explained again and again and again on this thread. You can bet that some of those on the picket line have also swallowed the consequent illusions being sown uncritically (reinforced by the union bureaucracy and the media). The point is not to stand aside but to raise the real causes and real consequent tactics to be taken - to cut across any illusions because underlying the superficial are genuine fears and rightful concerns.

The workforce that was working there previously should retain their jobs and conditions first - those sacked/made redundant/vistimised should be reinstated - of course. That is ABC isn't it? even to a toytowner like you?? I mean not simply be replaced at the whim (or greed to be more accurate) of the employers by a more maliable, even less secure workforce.

You realise that the more you skwirm and avoid the consequences of your parties 'position' with your weaseling questions (because that is what these questions are about arn't they - self-legitimisation) the more you are exposed don't you?

 

[butchersapron]

I think spion is an 'indepedent', dennis - i might be wrong.

 

[Spion]

Oh, how evasive your responses. And the abuse. You're clearly rattled by straighforward questions. it stinks

I'm for no job cuts, no pay cuts, no outsourcing, unionisation of migrant workers brought in, massive investment to create jobs, and I'd be for strikes to enforce any of those things. I will never support a strike for bj4bw tho. Shame on you if you do.

And once again - "Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available." What about those that aren't local?

 

[free spirit]

Its easy to 'rant' on the internet incoherently

dammit, I thought I'd managed a relatively coherent rant.