Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[Dissident Junk]

"Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available." What about those that aren't local? This is pretty important.

Weirdly, Spion, you've just made me think of something with regards to this.

The ECHR in Article 8 provides the right to respect for one's family life.

Now surely, respect for one's family life means that the state does not put in place policies that undermine family life -- like, say, supporting the implementation of specific economic policies that result in said citizen needing to work half way across Europe, hundred of miles away from said family and said 'family life'. For surely, family life means you have a life with your family, ie. you live with them.

Now you could argue that EU nations, by supporting a europe wide market for labour, supporting labour migration far from point of origin and not supporting local people's access to local jobs, they are essentially contravening this right.

As is someone like Mandelson suggesting British strikers could work in Europe.

If the State can't deport an EU national citizen that has committed a crime back to his country of citizenship because he has family in the UK, then surely, the State cannot support policies that result in British citizens having to export themselves unwillingly in order to earn money, nor can it advocate this process -- it contravenes the right to family life for those workers.

Mibbe.

My thinking there is a bit messy, but I think it has got some, albeit, wobbly legs.

 

[_angel_]

Weirdly, Spion, you've just made me think of something with regards to this.

The ECHR in Article 8 provides the right to respect for one's family life.

Now surely, respect for one's family life means that the state does not put in place policies that undermine family life -- like, say, supporting the implementation of specific economic policies that result in said citizen needing to work half way across Europe, hundred of miles away from said family and said 'family life'. For surely, family life means you have a life with your family, ie. you live with them.

Now you could argue that EU nations, by supporting a europe wide market for labour, supporting labour migration far from point of origin and not supporting local people's access to local jobs, they are essentially contravening this right.

As is someone like Mandelson suggesting British strikers could work in Europe.

If the State can't deport an EU national citizen that has committed a crime back to his country of citizenship because he has family in the UK, then surely, the State cannot support policies that result in British citizens having to export themselves unwillingly in order to earn money, nor can it advocate this process -- it contravenes the right to family life for those workers.

Mibbe.

My thinking there is a bit messy, but I think it has got some, albeit, wobbly legs.

Interesting point.

 

[dennisr]

Oh, how evasive your responses. And the abuse. You're clearly rattled by straighforward questions. it stinks

I'm for no job cuts, no pay cuts, no outsourcing, unionisation of migrant workers brought in, massive investment to create jobs, and I'd be for strikes to enforce any of those things. I will never support a strike for bj4bw tho. Shame on you if you do.

And once again - "Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available." What about those that aren't local?

No - you are 'reserving judgement'. These workers have been replaced - got rid off, cast on the scrap heap, replaced without a 'by your leave' by other imported to live in floating barracks. Old agreements between workforce and employer tossed aside. This is NOT about bj4bw. You should be ashamed for 'reserving judgement' - leaving the field open to the likes of the BNP.

You are quibbling over words - like nero fiddling while rome burns.

rattled!! - i'm simply exasperated by the level of idiocy. evasive - you are the one with the implications and naunces - with the innocent questions.

this is the real world - you can either stand aside or take a stand with those workers and with their legitimate demands (and therefore assisting in cutting across thr illusions that can also develop) or against them and with bosses and EU laws - its that simple.

Anyway - I always had the impression you were an SWP member, or ex-member or fellow traveller Spion - part of the reason that I am being sharp with you - have I got that bit wrong?

 

[belboid]

The ECHR in Article 8 provides the right to respect for one's family life....

someone on the bearfacts site asked the same question.

It'd make an interesting case, tho I suspect the chances of the judges deciding that a 'legally entered into contract of employment' was anything but totally fair are pretty minimal

 

[danny la rouge]

'Lord' Mandy should be doing his commons statement on this about now....wish I had the parliament channel

He says the subcontractor isn't undercutting pay and conditions.

So that's alright, then. We can trust whatever he says.

 

[audiotech]

Reported somewhere else, racist thugs are touring the bars near the plant looking for Italians to beat up. Several of them have quit and gone home in fear of their safety.

Has any solidarity has been sought from the Italian workers?

 

[belboid]

Reported somewhere else, racist thugs are touring the bars near the plant looking for Italians to beat up. Several of them have quit and gone home in fear of their safety.

Has any solidarity has been sought from the Italian workers?

reported where? Sounds very much like a complete load of shit. Read the thread for the answer to your other q

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Reported somewhere else, racist thugs are touring the bars near the plant looking for Italians to beat up. Several of them have quit and gone home in fear of their safety.

Has any solidarity has been sought from the Italian workers?

yeah spread rumours like this - a great way to destroy the movement

 

[audiotech]

reported where?

Lenin's Tomb the original source.

 

[butchersapron]

So link to it, post the thing - say where it's from - put it in some context. Don't pass on rumour as fact.

 

[belboid]

Lenin's Tomb the original source.

aah well, he'll be posting the complete opposite tomorrow then

Actually,the original source appears to be the Mirror, with some very vague comments, which dont come from direct quotes

Stil, they MUST all be a bunch of racists musn't they MC?

 

[rover07]

He says the subcontractor isn't undercutting pay and conditions.

he says.

I dont think they are. The Italians are not working for less money. A Unite spokesman said as much the other day.

Its about the distribution of work, thats the problem. imo

 

[belboid]

Actually,the original source appears to be the Mirror, with some very vague comments, which dont come from direct quotes

beg your pardon, there is ONE quote - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...-could-cause-power-shortages-115875-21090435/

 

[audiotech]

So link to it, post the thing - say where it's from - put it in some context. Don't pass on rumour as fact.

apologies - didn't mean to.

Post #32

 

[In Bloom]

Spion, British jobs for British workers is a crap demand and it'd be worrying if this was the main thrust of the strike (it isn't), but to dismiss everything that's happening here because of a shit, nationalist slogan that's been adopted by a few people (and used by the media as a stick to beat the strikers with) is incredibly dim, especially given your past support for Hamas.

These are the only concrete demands (as opposed to slogans and attempted hijackings by the BNP) that I've seen come out of this dispute:

• No victimisation of workers taking solidarity action.
• All workers in UK to be covered by NAECI Agreement.
• Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available.
• Government and employer investment in proper training / apprenticeships for new generation of construction workers - fight for a future for young people.
• All Immigrant labour to be unionised.
• Trade Union assistance for immigrant workers - including interpreters - and access to Trade Union advice - to promote active integrated Trade Union Members.
• Build links with construction trade unions on the continent.

Hardly nationalist demands.

 

[audiotech]

Stil, they MUST all be a bunch of racists musn't they MC?

Now, now, words in my mouth.

If I thought that I'd have given up years ago and ended up like posternumbers et al.

 

[Spion]

especially given your past support for Hamas.

That parallel is the dimmest ever. The only way it could be analagous to the Gaza thing is if the strkers were attacked by the cops, and I'd defend them against that.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Spion, British jobs for British workers is a crap demand and it'd be worrying if this was the main thrust of the strike (it isn't), but to dismiss everything that's happening here because of a shit, nationalist slogan that's been adopted by a few people (and used by the media as a stick to beat the strikers with) is incredibly dim, especially given your past support for Hamas.

These are the only concrete demands (as opposed to slogans and attempted hijackings by the BNP) that I've seen come out of this dispute:

Hardly nationalist demands.

Where did they come from In Bloom?

 

[Divisive Cotton]

That parallel is the dimmest ever. The only way it could be analagous to the Gaza thing is if the strkers were attacked by the cops, and I'd defend them against that.

Surely you jest

 

[In Bloom]

That parallel is the dimmest ever. The only way it could be analagous to the Gaza thing is if the strkers were attacked by the cops, and I'd defend them against that.

So you'll defend them against being attacked by the cops, but you won't support them fighting against redundancies and unemployment unless they come into it with perfect politics?

 

[belboid]

Now, now, words in my mouth.

If I thought that I'd have given up years ago.

well you have given up trying to be particularly coherent :0

If this is not your aim, why are you posting up totally unsubstantiated rumours, (and then not even sourcing them correctly)?

The only logical explanation is that you are desperately keen to show that the strikers are racist.

 

[In Bloom]

Where did they come from In Bloom?

Put forward by two SP members on the committee, to be voted on at the mass meeting today. Hopefully they'll go through.

Edit: In fact, I only scan read that before, it appears the meeting agreed to them (sudden changes of tense make my head hurt).

 

[Spion]

These are the only concrete demands (as opposed to slogans and attempted hijackings by the BNP) that I've seen come out of this dispute:

• No victimisation of workers taking solidarity action.
• All workers in UK to be covered by NAECI Agreement.
• Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available.
• Government and employer investment in proper training / apprenticeships for new generation of construction workers - fight for a future for young people.
• All Immigrant labour to be unionised.
• Trade Union assistance for immigrant workers - including interpreters - and access to Trade Union advice - to promote active integrated Trade Union Members.
• Build links with construction trade unions on the continent.

• Most of those are fine, but they'd make no difference to the existing situation as far as I can tell, only future work.
  
  But then there's the one about TU control of employment of 'local' labour. Why only local labour? I've had no clarification of what that means, but an unsympathetic reading would see it as 'local jobs for local people'

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Put forward by two SP members on the committee, to be voted on at the mass meeting today. Hopefully they'll go through.

...

The mass meeting overwhelmingly voted for the demands put to them by the strike committee.

 

[In Bloom]

Most of those are fine, but they'd make no difference to the existing situation as far as I can tell, only future work.

But then there's the one about TU control of employment of 'local' labour. Why only local labour? I've had no clarification of what that means, but an unsympathetic reading would see it as 'local jobs for local people'

As long as that includes local migrants and people already resident in the area but originally from elsewhere in the UK, does it matter? Also, the inclusion of the Italian workers would either prove that their pay and conditions were on a par with local workers or allow those pay and conditions to be brought into line with that.

Bit confused as to why they don't include reinstatement for the workers who've been made redundant though.

 

[Fedayn]

...

The mass meeting overwhelmingly voted for the demands put to them by the strike committee.

Any link for this DC??

 

[In Bloom]

Any link for this DC??

It's in that SP link that I posted

The first bit, up to the demands, appears to have been written about before the meeting, and then the bit afterwards refers to the demands being passed at the meeting.

 

[tangentlama]

Has any solidarity has been sought from the Italian workers?

I sure hope so.

Reported somewhere else, racist thugs are touring the bars near the plant looking for Italians to beat up. Several of them have quit and gone home in fear of their safety.

Very frightening news - it's like 1905 all over again

 

[Fedayn]

It's in that SP link that I posted

The first bit, up to the demands, appears to have been written about before the meeting, and then the bit afterwards refers to the demands being passed at the meeting.

Excellent, perhaps Spion might support the strikers now, important he approves of their demands you know.

 

[Scrus]

This action seems to be fuelled by a jingoistic press though. Jobs for local people??? These are BNP slogans. It was likely that there were going to be more strike action as a result of the Recession but it seems to me to be going in the wrong direction. It should be the owners of industry that are the targets not fellow workers. It's such a long time since there has been industrial action on this scale in the UK that everyone wants to support it, but there is probably going to be a lot more, this is the wrong place to start imo.